TP1 Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 As usual, it looks like there are issues with pre-production units and I am not sure that impromptu demos at trade shows can ever tell the whole story anyway. I place a lot more weight on rational feedback from actual buyers' experiences than on opinions from those who sell projectors ( I do the same with motor car comparisons too) . So, heres hoping it wont be too long before the new PJ's will find their way into homes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TP1 Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 4 hours ago, Javs said: At my viewing distance it would be completely impossible to make out the 4K pixel grid. Only superman could see that. But eshift may make the image generally smoother and more filmic/fluid, less 'display' like, we will see. In order to focus a native 4K projector at the pixel level, you need to walk right up to the screen and get close in. I have to use reading glasses to do it and i'd imagine with 8K resolution, I'd need something stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobe1969 Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Be nice if the z1 got a firmware update for all the new engine and features. Especially as zero new laser model. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javs Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Owen said: Yes, we are discussing two different issues. Placing the E-Shift eliment in the optical path will lower MTF at all spatial frequencies and will degrade ANSI contrast some what due to added reflections in the optical system. I'm not suggesting the degradation is significant but it is unavoidable. On the plus side E-Shift allows the optical system to reproduce spatial frequencies well beyond what the imaging chips can provide natively, which is great IF we have a video input that needs it. Yet internal optical reflections have been improved and ANSI is apparently now 50% higher than before. Both are bullet points discussed by the JVC engineers at IFA. Non issue. Barking up the wrong tree Owen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javs Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 58 minutes ago, Tasso said: In order to focus a native 4K projector at the pixel level, you need to walk right up to the screen and get close in. I have to use reading glasses to do it and i'd imagine with 8K resolution, I'd need something stronger. You wouldn't focus these machines with eshift on. But yeah, of course, your nose would be on the screen to get sharp focus for sure. Arrow / Nigel has just told me those pattern and Quick Brown fox images I showed earlier were in fact with 8k Eshift enabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 23 minutes ago, Javs said: Arrow / Nigel has just told me those pattern and Quick Brown fox images I showed earlier were in fact with 8k Eshift enabled. Well that’s plain amazing !!! s much as abhore looking at patterns but I have to admit now I am curious how the quick Brown fox goes through the N7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 37 minutes ago, Javs said: Yet internal optical reflections have been improved and ANSI is apparently now 50% higher than before. Thats not because of the E-Shift element but in spite of it. MTF and ANSI would be better without an extra optical element in the light path, simple a that. Having said that I'm confident the difernace would not be visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javs Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Just now, Owen said: Thats not because of the E-Shift element but in spite of it. MTF and ANSI would be better without an extra optical element in the light path, simple a that. Having said that I'm confident the difernace would not be visible. WTF does it matter?!? Ok we get it. You hate eshift. noted. Move on. Your projector is the best! I bet you were barking all the same stuff with the transition of DVD to Bluray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael391 Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 A tidbit i found.....might be interesting First comments live (other forums) # 111 created: Today, 17:47 Today I was in the IFA and, of course, in JVC. At 2:00 p.m. I took the demonstration with me. Only the NX9 was shown, but I still allowed myself to get rid of some questions in the direction of N5, which for many probably more realistically fits the bag. The N7 (in black) and N5 (in white) were at least outside the evaluation. An N5 is also connected and was offered to turn it on after 17 o'clock. During the tah'ges with the narrow demonstration program of the NX9 is not possible. The show was great. He presented a 4K demo clip (I've seen it somewhere before), clips from Pacific Rim and The Greatest Showman. Both the sharpness and the contrast and the color game were exceptional. The dark scenes in The Greatest Showman are drawn in an excellent way. The NX9 has the exceptional lens of the Z1, with which many of the additional lumens are extracted compared to N5 and N7. That makes the device heavier. What I found great was the synchronization of the image. So far, the devices have there the JVC commemoration pause of 12-15s in dark mode. I did not count here at all, I guess around 2. The electronics must be identical for all three devices. They bring more balance and they are also a bit bulky, but it still stays in the frame. The white aluminum housing of the N5 I found very valuable processed. That puts Schaff decent in the suitability of the living room compared to the X5000. For me, there is a clear desire effect of desire. # 114 created: Today, 18:28 JVC has apparently carefully analyzed the bustle of the Sony 4K Beamer of recent years and has calculated what the potential customer wants. According to the first sightings, a small revolution seems to be happening here, after all the usual evolutions and cosmetic retreats of recent years. Fortunately, JVC not only found the connection, but also aggressively and confidently went on the offensive. The consumer may be right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 I take note of his "small revolution" as he calls it... it definitely is a 2nd coming... a while new chasis is something jvc wouldnt take lightly ! there is no regurgitation here I dont think also just checking dimensions ... these things are relative beasts ! I also noted arrows comment below, Quote Let me put it this way... As soon as I put that test pattern on absolutely everyone in the room went completely nuts and started scrutinizing it up close and taking photos with their phones. It quite literally blew everyone in the room away. It was/is probably one of the strongest positive reactions that I have ever seen with respect to a new projector by a room full of AV professionals. The same applied to the single pixel native 4K Masciola test pattern. Nobody could believe what they were seeing. It was/is essentially as good as the JVC RS4500/Z1 in this regard, but with superior contrast. The NX9 is nothing short of amazing. I am of course assuming here that the various issues afflicting the pre-production unit will be fixed with respect to the production units, wherein if they are then in my opinion the JVC NX9 will be one of the best performing home theater/cinema projectors in the world as of right now, particularly at the respective price range we are indeed looking at something significant here.... ps interesting greatest show man was mentioned as happened watched that this morning with daughter... flippen heck ! what a movie... i'll have to post separately on that elsewhere ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 ran has posted some more of his time in the jvc room... Quote Hey guys. I have been asked some questions while I was asleep and this thread is moving fast, so just some clarifications on some of the stuff I said. All the questions where asked before I saw any photage, the tech guy was not there when the demo was over so practically there was no one to really ask . The mosquito noise I saw was very clear and it was on every stuff which was shown, 4k and 1080p, stuff from a disc or a usb stick, it was there and it was very clear to me. Turning e.shift off did not solve this. Banding was also clear to see and I saw it for 3-4 times each demo and I'm not that banding sensitive... As to bright corners, which on the other hand I'm very sensitive to. The room at some parts of the demo was quite dark ,certainly not a bat cave but still dark, I couldn't say that I noticed Bright corners but then again there where no fade to blacks which would have helped to spot them. As mentioned this is something that they are aware of and can not be solved under current conditions. I was impressed with the Contrast during the second demo which in fact was identical to the first. In fact I thought that the first demo was a joke in terms of contrast, but something changed in the second demo and it wasn't the DI. I did look at the Iris on the second demo and it was on -3. It looked very good actually. The Balcony scene from Skyfall which I know so well, looked impressive, though I can't honestly say that it made me feel that I'm looking at a sharper picture than the one I'm used to, not in any way. As mentioned, brightness was OK but at no point did I think that there is some head room. As to size. The first reaction I had was that this thing might be too big and what I immediately thought of was how similar in size this is to the Sony 760 laser. At some time during my interrogation (probably that's how he felt) I asked the tech guy (with a smile..) if there measuring technique has somehow changed just to get an idea about the new contrast numbers and he said NO. I'll be returning to the show on Sunday and I'm going to have another look and perhaps, if possible, see some of my stuff and ask some more questions, though Sunday may be crowded so probably just the public demo and no questions , will see.. Ran 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TP1 Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 As far as new technology goes, I would like to know how on earth you can combine dynamic laser dimming with dynamic iris. I cant see where it has been done before and it will be interesting to see how it works on the 870ES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terminate Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 These things are huge. Thought the X900 models were big, but these N models are about 2inch taller! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted September 2, 2018 Author Share Posted September 2, 2018 ps I dont know what the go is with the new sony 2019 series, as there is a deifnite dearth of info, best could find was post below and picture associated ! some first hand info there, but if anyone can find better do please post.... I do think both the 570 and new 870 is worth crowing about... so do share anything come by, same with any other brands models being released.... courtesy of frank 714 in berlin, Quote Strange that there doesn't seem to be a thread, yet, addressing the 2018 Sony models, is there something wrong with my computer. Regarding Sony's new line of projectors, the projector setup and presentation was rather something along the lines of the attached image. I had the privilege attending the dealers' presentation (there is no public presentation at IFA), where we met at Sony and then had to cross the fairgrounds to a basement room in the vicinity of JVC on the upper floor. The focus was on the VPL-VW870ES, fed with a trailer from Earth II. Sony highlighted that in dark areas of the image we'd see even more details but reality was, that in the footage the dark areas were rather uniform and in general the image was way too dark. Sony highlighted a new feature, the "Digital Focus Optimser" (or is it "Digital Focus Optimaizer" - the international print version of the "SXRD Home Cinema Projector Range" catalog wasn't clear which one is the right spelling...) that "will digitally compensate for any focus or abnormalities in the lens profile". Well, when the Earth II trailer came to an end me and some others wondered about the double images on the far right hand side displaying mountains (looked like images when you remove 3D glasses). I couldn't help but wonder if that was the result of aforementioned optimizer at work or else, apparently it still needs improvement and hopefully there'll be an option to switch that feature off, if this optimizer was the cause of the artefacts. I was interested to see the new VPL-VW270ES at work but the presentation was limited to '''UHD''' footage from the Oblivion UHD Blu-ray (known to show less detail and image resolution than its FullHD Blu-ray counterpart...). I'm certain that Sony can do much, MUCH better and can only keep my fingers crossed that the next exhibits will reveal the true and full potential of the 2018 line-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 (edited) On 01/09/2018 at 4:47 PM, Javs said: WTF does it matter?!? It matters to me because I see "8K" E-Shift as marketing BS and I recon I won't be the only one. On 01/09/2018 at 4:47 PM, Javs said: Ok we get it. You hate eshift. noted. Don't be ridiculous, E-Shift is a very valuable and welcome addition to the X Series, but for a 4K native unit its not and I would rather JVC left it out unless there is a way to remove the E-Shift element from the optical path when not in use. If thats the case I have no complaint. I expect many people will not want to use the E-Shift "feature" on the N9, you included, and I'm sure I won't be the only one who would rather not have the image pass through an unnecessary optical element that is almost certainly there to satify JVC's marketing department. On 01/09/2018 at 4:47 PM, Javs said: Your projector is the best! For the screen size I use and the importance I place on black level it is the best for my use, which is why it was chosen. Newer models have gone backwards in black level and that doesn't suit me. When my new house gets built and I have to contend with a much larger screen I will have to re evaluate whats most suitable then. The N9 is certainly a top contender given its apparently has the highest contrast of any new model, but I am fascinated why contrast is seemingly so much better then the laser powered Z1. On 01/09/2018 at 4:47 PM, Javs said: I bet you were barking all the same stuff with the transition of DVD to Bluray. Exactly the opposite. DVD was always unacceptable to me. I spent years experimenting with scaling and sharpening methods back in the day in an attempt to get a better on screen result but it was a lost cause IMHO. 1080 Bluray was a revolution from day one, but the step to 4K Bluray is tiny in comparison after carefully setup so I just don't care, especially since almost none of the movies I want to watch, including new releases, are available in 4K, nor are they ever likely to be. I expect 1080 Bluray will provide the mast majority of my viewing for the foreseeable future. Edited September 3, 2018 by Owen 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobe1969 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 I'm with you there. Looking at the weight differences, I guess the addition of the vibrator to the projector does contribute to weight Seems like a waste of effort, cost, price, and pretty meaningless. It isn't like 4k eshift where they are trying to compensate for lack of resolution to match SOURCE material. It doesn't and won't ever take 8k source material. So worthless. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Diamond Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 8K eShift. It’s so clear you can even make out the disappointment on the purchasers face. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitschcamp Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 I was all set to make my purchase as soon as my funds land, now I'm mulling things over again... The Sony 570 looks pretty good compared to the 760 and for far less cash, and then the JVC N7 especially looks really tempting... Anyone seen any info on when they'll land in Australia and the sort of pricing? Because the Sony's current pricing is pretty good compared to the US especially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TP1 Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 I am wondering whether this observation by Arrow AV indicates that the new JVC projectors internal upscaling are not up to scratch. The internal upscaling of the 760ES ( and now 570ES ) is definitely superior to Oppo and other video sources . This has been corroborated by other owners and reviewers. It might not be a deal breaker but useful to know nevertheless. Quote Good news folks. The rumour of mosquito video noise afflicting the new JVC projectors with respect to native 4K content has been definitively debunked as being false. There is absolutely ZERO video noise with native 4K content. The video noise appears to manifest exclusively when HD1080p content is inputted to and upscaled to 4K/8K resolution by the projector. It is not recommended to have the projector upscale HD to 4K anyway but to do this prior in the video chain and to input all content to the projector as native 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oztheatre Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 2 hours ago, kitschcamp said: I was all set to make my purchase as soon as my funds land, now I'm mulling things over again... The Sony 570 looks pretty good compared to the 760 and for far less cash, and then the JVC N7 especially looks really tempting... Anyone seen any info on when they'll land in Australia and the sort of pricing? Because the Sony's current pricing is pretty good compared to the US especially. Both Sony and JVC pricing in Australia have been spectacularly good in comparison to the USD. Even the Sony 760 is about 4K cheaper than American pricing.. unhead of. Hopefully the new JVCs will be in line with current prices, we'll get 'group buy' thing going when I know more. Should be a good year 2019 for PJ's as sounds like Sony has improved also. Be interesting to see what Epson end up doing, more of the same for the 9400 with some tweaks but any native 4K to replace the LS series? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oztheatre Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 Image 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TP1 Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 I noticed that the "new" 65mm lens for the JVC is not actually a new design as such but a revamp with ostensibly improved quality of production, much like Sony did last year for their 2017/2018 models . A high quality lens with 4K panels will create an awesome picture and I'm wondering how noticeable the difference between the 65mm and the top spec 100 mm will be under normal viewing conditions ( not just test patterns viewed close to the screen). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMDave Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, oztheatre said: Hopefully the new JVCs will be in line with current prices, we'll get 'group buy' thing going when I know more. And for those wondering, Rich secured the entire first shipment of X5000/7000/9000's into Australia for JVC in late 2015. And at a better price than I could have hoped for. Thanks again. Stay tuned. Edited September 3, 2018 by IMDave 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 6 hours ago, Tasso said: The internal upscaling of the 760ES ( and now 570ES ) is definitely superior to Oppo and other video sources . Its not the "upscaling" because upscaling is very easy to do well and costs stuff all. What Sony does definitely, and quite well overall, is sharpening. Other video sources include PC's that can actually provide a better result than Sony's sharpening IMHO, but PC's are not for everyone as they are not plug and play for the in experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WasM Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, Owen said: Its not the "upscaling" because upscaling is very easy to do well and costs stuff all. What Sony does definitely, and quite well overall, is sharpening. Other video sources include PC's that can actually provide a better result than Sony's sharpening IMHO, but PC's are not for everyone as they are not plug and play for the in experienced. Maybe wrong topic to post this question but is there currently a PC setup that can give full Ultra Bluray 4K HDR 4:4:4 with Atmos/DTS:X? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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