Panasonic Plasma Time Bombs?

[snorri]

I own the 50G10, I did heaps of research before purchase but now I am left gob smacked!!

Is there any truth to the Panasonic Plasma panels programed to loose black for a grey after as little as 300 hours?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1167339

Anyone experienced this yet!

How come I never heard about this on any Australian forum thread when i was researching theses Pana plasmas...possibly it's all hogwash here in Oz??

Seriously I cannot say I would own this set if I had known, it's blown my original rating system out of the water, not happy about it either, if it's true Panasonic can shove the blue-ray i was looking at right where I am sure it would fit.

Edited January 27, 2010 by snorri

[way_fast_whitie]

seems there is alot of data there to back up the claim...but I find it hard to believe there "programmed" to do it. I had a panna for years, never noticed it or heard claims like this.

[I am Murphy]

I own the 50G10, I did heaps of research before purchase but now I am left gob smacked!!

Is there any truth to the Panasonic Plasma panels programed to loose black for a grey after as little as 300 hours?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1167339

Anyone experienced this yet!

How come I never heard about this on any Australian forum thread when i was researching theses Pana plasmas...possibly it's all hogwash here in Oz??

Seriously I cannot say I would own this set if I had known, it's blown my original rating system out of the water, not happy about it either, if it's true Panasonic can shove the blue-ray i was looking at right where I am sure it would fit.

The AVS thread certainly has a lot of postings (50+ pages) but I read only so far. I stopped reading when I came to the reset procedure. It is not published in the Operating Instructions supplied with the set, but is published in the Service Manual (according to the AVS thread).

Anyway, I performed this just now on my Pana TH-P50X10A, and can say it had a beneficial effect. Before, changing from one channel to another showed momentarily a blank screen and the "black" level of this blank screen was certainly a level of grey.

Now, I see the blank screen has a definite black level. The difference is significant, to my eye. I have no instrument to measure, so I can only accept that it is in line with what has been posted in the AVS thread.

As per the thread, re-connecting the set to 240 volt mains power was just like when I first installed the set last November. That is, the Pana asks for your viewing location in AU and performs a scan to find available services.

Overall, I am pleased that the "remedy" is so simple. It took less time to perform than to write this response.

My Pana is a TH-P50X10A that was built last October, and it runs about 84 hours per week.

Since the "remedy" is so simple, I consider it to be a non-issue.

Regards,

RK

[unity]

The AVS thread certainly has a lot of postings (50+ pages) but I read only so far. I stopped reading when I came to the reset procedure. It is not published in the Operating Instructions supplied with the set, but is published in the Service Manual (according to the AVS thread).

Anyway, I performed this just now on my Pana TH-P50X10A, and can say it had a beneficial effect. Before, changing from one channel to another showed momentarily a blank screen and the "black" level of this blank screen was certainly a level of grey.

Now, I see the blank screen has a definite black level. The difference is significant, to my eye. I have no instrument to measure, so I can only accept that it is in line with what has been posted in the AVS thread.

As per the thread, re-connecting the set to 240 volt mains power was just like when I first installed the set last November. That is, the Pana asks for your viewing location in AU and performs a scan to find available services.

Overall, I am pleased that the "remedy" is so simple. It took less time to perform than to write this response.

My Pana is a TH-P50X10A that was built last October, and it runs about 84 hours per week.

Since the "remedy" is so simple, I consider it to be a non-issue.

Regards,

RK

What is this reset procedure you are talking about and how is it performed? Also, when is it recommended to be performed?

[snorri]

I read 3 +hours worth of posts on that thread last night to try and get a handle on this and as forums go early on lots of ideas get thrown into the mix only to be sorted further through.

Consensus seems to be that unless the panels internal clock is reset then the 'fault' continues to count down to trash viewing, entering the service side of the unit does nothing in any way as a remedy, another early thought was that entering service might actually be the cause but it also didn't stand up to scrutiny.

One thing for sure is the design fault is in every single unit and your blacks will halve within 1000 hours many have their Plasmas displaying what looks like cheap LCD blacks to me, nothing even close to the black it displayed when first turned on at 0 hours.

Serious and real, nothing short of a firmware fix ill sort it, if it can be sorted as this still remains to be seen.

They really are a time bomb just like in the movies.

[Wags69]

I read 3 +hours worth of posts on that thread last night to try and get a handle on this and as forums go early on lots of ideas get thrown into the mix only to be sorted further through.

Consensus seems to be that unless the panels internal clock is reset then the 'fault' continues to count down to trash viewing, entering the service side of the unit does nothing in any way as a remedy, another early thought was that entering service might actually be the cause but it also didn't stand up to scrutiny.

One thing for sure is the design fault is in every single unit and your blacks will halve within 1000 hours many have their Plasmas displaying what looks like cheap LCD blacks to me, nothing even close to the black it displayed when first turned on at 0 hours.

Serious and real, nothing short of a firmware fix ill sort it, if it can be sorted as this still remains to be seen.

They really are a time bomb just like in the movies.

I can't believe this would be a function of a new tv deliberatley put in by the manufacturer, what purpose does it serve?

[Jase C]

The AVS thread certainly has a lot of postings (50+ pages) but I read only so far. I stopped reading when I came to the reset procedure. It is not published in the Operating Instructions supplied with the set, but is published in the Service Manual (according to the AVS thread).

...

Since the "remedy" is so simple, I consider it to be a non-issue.

Regards,

RK

RK,

what is the remedy?

[bradp51]

I own the 50G10, I did heaps of research before purchase but now I am left gob smacked!!

Is there any truth to the Panasonic Plasma panels programed to loose black for a grey after as little as 300 hours?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1167339

Anyone experienced this yet!

How come I never heard about this on any Australian forum thread when i was researching theses Pana plasmas...possibly it's all hogwash here in Oz??

Seriously I cannot say I would own this set if I had known, it's blown my original rating system out of the water, not happy about it either, if it's true Panasonic can shove the blue-ray i was looking at right where I am sure it would fit.

You probably have not heard of it as it sounds like rubbish.

Hogwash is right. My PZ700 series 50 inch looks as good to me as the day I bought it about 2 years ago. A visitor commented recently that it is the best picture on FTA that he has ever seen.

[snorri]

Been doing some more reading and Panasonic admits to this now 'known' problem.

EDIT* thought I had better clarify, US and Canada Panasonic, I just rang Australia's version and they know nothing about it in any way including anything about the volume of information happening in the US ATM. Of coarse i knew they would say this but it's always nice to confirm.

A person would be nuts to buy one of these machines until the air gets cleared one way or another. No way would I have bought mine just a couple of weeks ago if I had known then.

Edited January 27, 2010 by snorri

[Turkey Tom]

Didn't bother reading the whole thread, but one of the early posts mentions about the reset remedy. No idea if it fixes the problem (if there really is a problem) or not.

"i called panasonic earlier today after reading your post, i to noticed this increase about two weeks ago, they had several alternatives for the problem, but one that actually worked for me. It was a complete reboot of the set, why this worked i can only guess, someone with much more knowledge of these sets could probably fill you in better.....to reset the set, power on the tv, hold the menu button on the remote and at the same time hold down the volume minus button on the tv, after about 5 seconds you will see a screen with information come up, at this point hold down the power button on the front of the set until it turns off, then unplug the main power for 30 seconds plug back up and it's like you unboxed it for the first time.

This will reset all the user menu settings back to default, and maybe even the service menu settings(this one i'm not sure about). After finishing the procedure, i poped in a bluray, and checked it out, the letter box bars above and below were noticably darker than what they were moments before. I don't know if this will help, and if it does no clue as to why it worked, but it might be worth the shot"

[poppy]

As a brand new Panasonic owner as of yesterday, these type of reports are quite worrying. If Panasonic know of this problem wouldn't it be in their best interest to release a fix for the problem?

[snorri]

I thought by now someone here in Australia would have had a handle on this and commented.

Time for us here to turn up the heat and find out what our panasonic is going to do about this for us outside of the bullcrap I received anyway.

Found a couple of customer service transcripts from the US of A, heartening to read if Pana can be believed.

Agent Antione A says: Hello. How may I assist you?

Customer Marc says: Hello

Customer Marc says: I just wanted to know if Panasonic was aware of this article http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...romoUnitHolder

Customer Marc says: Hello?

Agent Antione A says: yes

Agent Antione A says: What is this article referring to?

Customer Marc says: Hopefully this will speed up the response from the engineering department. I know you're doing all you can, and thank-you

Customer Marc says: That black level issue

Agent Antione A says: ok yes, there should be a frimware update by 2/5/09

Agent Antione A says: Sorry, Firmware

Customer Marc says: thanks

Agent Antione A says: Sure, no problem

Agent Antione A says: Thanks for contacting Panasonic.

anotther one:

Dear MR E*** L********

Thank you for your inquiry.

The firmware will be coming shortly.

We hope this information is helpful to you. Thank you for contacting

Panasonic.

Thank You,

Panasonic Consumer Support

another one:

Rennie C: it might be available on 02./05, that is the only info we have right now

Marc: For the black level fix, not the THX fix?

Rennie C: there should be info coming out for both within that time frame

Marc: So there is a possibility that an actual firmware fix will be released by 02/05?

Rennie C: yes sir

Marc: Thank-you

and here is a short take on what really is at the heart of the fault:

David doesn't quite accurately capture what has been discovered on the thread. It's not "Hey, ***! My plasma is all bright and grayed out! Dudez!" Instead, the hardcore nerds at AVS have identified verifiable changes in the voltage parameters that control the brightness of the PDP's phosphors. Basically, Panasonic programmed in slight voltage changes to occur after a specified period of "on" hours (IIRC, it is 1,000). When that milestone is reached, the voltages change -- the goal being to preserve the phosphors for as long as possible, thereby prolonging the PDP's usable life. Well, it appears that Panasonic really did "goof," and they set the new voltage just a bit too high, resulting in worsened black performance.

cheers

[Void]

I haven't noticed any change in black levels on my PZ80 which is now 10 months old and must be in the low 1000s of hours use. I'm very very picky about blacks and i'm sure I would have noticed what seems to be a significant change.

It's not clear to me what models are effected and how widespread it is...i'm not concerned pending some solid data and feedback from Panasonic.

Will follow the various threads with interest. From what i've read over at AVS looks like Panasonic is investigating the issue seriously.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Void

[blaast6]

For some time now I have thought that my one year old 50PZ800's black levels have become greyer...must give the reset a try.

I assume it is the same for this model and the G10?

[bertzz99]

Basically, Panasonic programmed in slight voltage changes to occur after a specified period of "on" hours (IIRC, it is 1,000). When that milestone is reached, the voltages change -- the goal being to preserve the phosphors for as long as possible, thereby prolonging the PDP's usable life. Well, it appears that Panasonic really did "goof," and they set the new voltage just a bit too high, resulting in worsened black performance.

Say what? They wanted to preserve the phosphors so they upped the voltage????

Has anyone got an eta on a firware update for the Aus panels yet?

Edited January 28, 2010 by Bertzz

[BadBeachBoy]

It's not clear to me what models are effected and how widespread it is...i'm not concerned pending some solid data and feedback from Panasonic.

Im not wanting to Panny-bash. I am a fairly happy owner of a V10 myself, and I know that some people are quite happy with panny support - unlike myself. Nonetheless, if I am interpreting correctly you are relying on Panasonic to tell you there is a problem. Whilst Im not suggesting you should complain if you dont have a problem, I dont think it's realistic to expect them to confirm the existence of these faults pro-actively.

I mean, as it is there is suggestion that they are looking into it, but as the parameters of the problem have already been stated, it wouldnt take them moments to assess if a panel has "gone grey" (for want of a better term), or to confirm or deny the voltage problem.

[Void]

One thing for sure is the design fault is in every single unit and your blacks will halve within 1000 hours many have their Plasmas displaying what looks like cheap LCD blacks to me, nothing even close to the black it displayed when first turned on at 0 hours.

The blacks on every single Panasonic G10 plasma will halve at 1000 hours...really?

This is completely unsubstantiated speculation that serves no purpose other than to freak people out.

Of the 50 odd pages at AVS there's probably 1 page with information that is even remotely useful. I can see this thread heading the same way.

[bertzz99]

The blacks on every single Panasonic G10 plasma will halve at 1000 hours...really?

This is completely unsubstantiated speculation that serves no purpose other than to freak people out.

Of the 50 odd pages at AVS there's probably 1 page with information that is even remotely useful. I can see this thread heading the same way.

Be that as it may, there is a problem and its confirmed by Panasonic in the US, so we should not sit around waiting for Pana Aus to sort it out-rather many people should ring them and enquire about it - maybe even mention these forums and how the word is spreading like wildfire. That should get them to pull finger!

[GP11]

Interesting!!

I bought my V10 along with 5 other friends/work colleagues back in early Sept. We all agree that the blacks have improved with age.

I have around 2300 hrs up now ( approx 8 hrs a day ) and after seeing this report I did a double take with BR / FTA and can't detect any deteriation of black levels..

As said above in this thread, most visitors comment that its the best colour/blacks they have come across..

In saying that I realise they probably haven't seen many Pioneers lol

But I will be keeping an eye on my V10 and developments here.

[Void]

Im not wanting to Panny-bash. I am a fairly happy owner of a V10 myself, and I know that some people are quite happy with panny support - unlike myself. Nonetheless, if I am interpreting correctly you are relying on Panasonic to tell you there is a problem. Whilst Im not suggesting you should complain if you dont have a problem, I dont think it's realistic to expect them to confirm the existence of these faults pro-actively.

I mean, as it is there is suggestion that they are looking into it, but as the parameters of the problem have already been stated, it wouldnt take them moments to assess if a panel has "gone grey" (for want of a better term), or to confirm or deny the voltage problem.

No that's not what I said, perhaps I should have been clearer.

'Solid data and feedback from Panasonic'...2 separate things. Verifiable data from professional calibrators and the like, demonstrating that there is a problem (and it seems there is, just the scale and cause is unknown) and feedback from Panasonic relating to service calls logged about the issue.

AVS and CNET users have raised it and Panasonic are investigating. I'm sure if there is an issue that can be rectified by firmware Panasonic will release it. I'm not saying don't be pro-active if you have believe you have the issue...my problem is with knee-jerk reactions and unverified speculation.

I'd be interested to know if any Australian owners\calibrators have *measured* the black levels as some AVS members have done?

[likwidsh0k1503561232]

Just found out about this myself and was very surprised to not have heard a single word about it anywhere here or at Whirlpool which leads me to suspect this may be (with the 50g10) a US market fault with their THX certified panels (TC-P50G10) as opposed to ours (TH-P50G10A) which are not, but yet to get a definitive answer.

[bertzz99]

Just found out about this myself and was very surprised to not have heard a single word about it anywhere here or at Whirlpool which leads me to suspect this may be (with the 50g10) a US market fault with their THX certified panels (TC-P50G10) as opposed to ours (TH-P50G10A) which are not, but yet to get a definitive answer.

There are Australian models affected. This has been confirmed visually even if not by using measuing equipment.

[likwidsh0k1503561232]

There are Australian models affected. This has been confirmed visually even if not by using measuing equipment.

Doh!

****, I haven't bought one yet but.. "that's not good, I'm not happy"

Thanks for that, any links please?

[thesexybod]

I guess sometimes you get what you paid for and sometimes you don't, though I'm not sure which category this one falls into, but it does seem to be a major issue for people who like their blacks, but then again if you really like your blacks you would of bought a pioneer in the first place. The latest Pioneer panels get deeper blacks as they age as opposed to the latest Panasonic's.

[Void]

I guess sometimes you get what you paid for and sometimes you don't, though I'm not sure which category this one falls into, but it does seem to be a major issue for people who like their blacks, but then again if you really like your blacks you would of bought a pioneer in the first place. The latest Pioneer panels get deeper blacks as they age as opposed to the latest Panasonic's.