Can Somebody Explain To Me This Bitrate Limit Thing

[Darth1503562821]

It was the same before One HD started, all these predictions of doom and gloom which proved to be unfounded.

Let's wait till "Go" starts broadcasting next week and see how it goes.

i totally agree...early days so wait until Sunday night before the critism starts

[tess1988]

Is Go's bitrate going to increase or..

I hope they do, thanks for your post and would it be ok if you could post the bi rates again for the 3 networks over time, i mean when GO is launched also how did you get that information, can STB do it or do i have to have a PC tv card?.

Also why do you want to stop Channel 77

[Guest john-andrew]

Unfounded???? One Digital looks like sh*t and One HD doesn't look as good as it used to be.

I don't hardly watch commerical TV as they have terrible ads too. Well, I re-scanned all of my digital receivers all because of a channel I don't watch. LOL.

Also why do you want to stop Channel 77

I saw that on my Toppy today and now deleted on the PVR.

Edited August 5, 2009 by john-andrew

[Dyllip]

I hope they do, thanks for your post and would it be ok if you could post the bi rates again for the 3 networks over time, i mean when GO is launched also how did you get that information, can STB do it or do i have to have a PC tv card?.

Also why do you want to stop Channel 77

Actually, charlesc provided the bitrate information earlier in the thread, I just quoted it

And my avatar of 'STOP!77' is just a mock up of Seven's second SD channel based on the opposite of Nine's 'GO!99'.

ie. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/t...o99Logo.svg.png

Edited August 5, 2009 by Dyllip

[alanh]

All,

Available channels,

Channels 0 - 5A are unsuitable for digital TV due to impulse interference. In the TV channels 6 - 12, when the analog TV transmitters are switched off, will be used for DAB+ digital radio particularly in regional areas.

Remember in Mainland State Capitals

LCN 7# analog channel 7 digital channel 6

LCN 9# analog channel 9 digital channel 8

LCN 1# analog channel 10 digital channel 11

LCN 2# analog channel 2 digital channel 12

LCN 3# analog channel 28 digital a channel between channel 28 - 36

Note: many of the channels between channel 36 - 69 is used for fill in translators and high powered transmitters in adjacent coverage areas.

Each site uses 10 channels and only the digital channels can use the same channels.

AlanH

[davmel]

All,

Available channels,

Channels 0 - 5A are unsuitable for digital TV due to impulse interference. In the TV channels 6 - 12, when the analog TV transmitters are switched off, will be used for DAB+ digital radio particularly in regional areas.

DAB+ has only and will only be allocated VHF 9A which will provide enough bandwidth for every potential channel. The 7 MHz in that allocation allows for a total of four 1.25MHz DAB+ multiplexes. There is no need to allocate any more spectrum so the existing analog channels can (unless the government blocks it) go back to the networks that currently operate them (except ABC).

Note: many of the channels between channel 36 - 69 is used for fill in translators and high powered transmitters in adjacent coverage areas.

Each site uses 10 channels and only the digital channels can use the same channels.

And remember that once analogue is shut down the 700MHz band will in all likelyhood be sold off for use in LTE networks by Telstra/Optus/VHA so there won't be any option for TV channels on UHF 50 and above.

[charlesc]

...and would it be ok if you could post the bi rates again for the 3 networks over time,

..

..also how did you get that information, can STB do it or do i have to have a PC tv card?.

Certainly. I can re-post bit rate updates from time to time.

I used a program called TSReader to display that information. It works with the standard BDA drivers that most PC tuner devices have (cards or USB tuners).

So it was PC based, not via STB or TV.

[falco]

GO is transmitting at 3.3 here on the Gold Coast and it looks pretty crappy. I much prefer Chanell BT its much better quality.

[Skid_MacMarx]

So when analog is finally gone.Will the picture quality greatly improve on all stations?

well reception -related issues will improve, as they will be able to boost up the power

[alanh]

Skid_MacMarx,

There are some areas of Northern and Western Sydney which have signals which will be increased when analog transmitters in the Manning river area and Bathurst are switched off. Most other areas will remain unchanged. There are some areas in which digital translators are yet to go on air.

Go to the Geographic Viewers’ Forum, which is near the bottom of the main forum’s home page. Select your region and read the pinned post “Get the Best Reception”. Please post any further correspondence in that strand for all in your region to see. I will see it anyway. You could also search your location in that strand for others in your area.

The answers depend on what transmitters you are trying to receive and what you are using now to receive the signal.

So on the appropriate forum state your location and whether you are using a roof antenna, indoor antenna or from an antenna system in a block of apartments.

Davmel,

I know that the USA is selling channels 53 and up to the mobile operators and a similar proposition is happening in Europe. This is your 700 MHz band. I doubt the sale here. Look at the transmitter lists in the above posts. There are plenty of translators in the channel 60s and 50s.

DAB+ in mainland state capitals is using a frequency gap between channel 9 and channel 10 which is 6 MHz wide. When analog channel 10 is switched off in those cities channel 9A TV will then become 7 MHz wide. Once analog TV is switched off all TV channels 6 -12 can be used for DAB+ channels 5A - 12F. This is provided Digital TV is not using that channel in that area and its adjacent coverage areas.

So when analog TV is switched off in Sydney for example, then Illawarra, Central Coast and Newcastle will get their own DAB+ radio stations for their local stations.

AlanH

[digitalj]

alanh,

Skid_MacMarx was not after an answer to a problem, but rather giving an example.

[dkint3]

It will be interesting to see how future advancements in technology are managed in respect of digital TV.

Given that MPEG2 has effectively already been superseded by MPEG4 as a superior codec (and no doubt future codecs eg. an MPEG6 ??? will be more efficient again).

Or we might have a 3D standard if that takes off.

Given that most Australian TVs are designed for MPEG2 (and may not be upgradable to MPEG4 or whatever), we are going to be stuck with the current MPEG2 system for a while yet.

Unless...

When analogue is switched off, if those previous analog channels are re-allocated to FTA to run a superior MPEG6 or 3D (or whatever the latest codec is) version of digital TV, with the current MPEG2 channels phased out. I know we are talking 2015-2020 before this happens, but I'm guessing this is how future technology is managed in respect of digital TV...

Maybe by then we will have a 'Beyond HD' format eg. 3840 x 2160 resolution...

[pgdownload]

but I'm guessing this is how future technology is managed in respect of digital TV...

Maybe by then we will have a 'Beyond HD' format eg. 3840 x 2160 resolution...

Analogue to MPEG2 =90% leap. MPEG 2 to MPEG4 is much less involved. There is also the law of diminishing returns (there's only so much you can compress images). Currently the industry is attempting to ensure STBs have MPEG4 capability from today. Its likely it will not be activated for 15 years as you say, but when the time comes its possible a significant % of the population will already have MPEG4 equipment without knowing it.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[digitalj]

Maybe by then we will have a 'Beyond HD' format eg. 3840 x 2160 resolution...

I highly doubt they'll ever be able to broadcast that resolution, at the moment a 1920x1080i50 broadcast requires about 2/3 or 3/4 of a 23Mbps channel, with AVC MPEG-4, that might change to 1/3 to 3/8. a 3840x2160i50 would need at least 4/3 to 3/2 of a 23Mbps broadcast, i.e. can't fit. I highly doubt thy'll be able to make a codec that'll allow 3840x2160i50 to fit into a 23Mbps channel.

[alanh]

dkint3,

The research into TV compression standard has moved from 2D to 3D. The 3D will use MPEG-4 compression for the Y, Pr, Pb and a depth signal will be added. The audio will be aacPlus V2 surround.

The idea is to copy the idea used in colour TV where a colour TV can display a monochrome signal and a monochrome TV can display a colour signal but not display the colour.

I don't think there will be a big demand for 4 k and 2 k TV because of the huge dislay required to see the improvements and rooms are not normally that big. These standards are being developed for cinemas.

AlanH

[dkint3]

Analogue to MPEG2 =90% leap. MPEG 2 to MPEG4 is much less involved. There is also the law of diminishing returns (there's only so much you can compress images). Currently the industry is attempting to ensure STBs have MPEG4 capability from today. Its likely it will not be activated for 15 years as you say, but when the time comes its possible a significant % of the population will already have MPEG4 equipment without knowing it.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

When watching say, NRL on FOX Sports HD vs Nine HD, there is less of the blockiness and ringing issues that you often get with sports broadcasts (though even on FOX HD is still exists to some degree).

How much of that is due to different codecs vs equipment vs bandwidth or other, I'm not sure though... I'm guessing future technologies will handle some of todays shortcomings better one way or another.

[davmel]

Davmel,

I know that the USA is selling channels 53 and up to the mobile operators and a similar proposition is happening in Europe. This is your 700 MHz band. I doubt the sale here. Look at the transmitter lists in the above posts. There are plenty of translators in the channel 60s and 50s.

There is already significant pressure from carriers and the telco industry in general to harmonise the conversion of the 700MHz band worldwide for LTE/Wimax use (LTE will completely dominate Wimax ultimately due to large scale carrier support) so I fully expect that the 700-820MHz spectrum will end up as three 20MHz duplex allocations for LTE in this country. Globally LTE will have extensive support in the 700 and 2600 bands until such time as existing services in the 850/900/1800/1900/2100 bands can be re-farmed as their popularity drops off.

The 700 band will be an absolutely critical component to cost effectively setting up a high speed terrestrial wireless data network for the NBN throughout the wide open spaces and terrain of this country. TV broadcasting just won't be able to justify the huge spectrum they are squatting on in favour of increasing competition.

As for the low power TV in-fill coverage and rural transmitters, they are only up in the 50+ UHF channel allocations due to the large number of channels needed for analogue so they don't interfere. Once analogue is turned off there will be more than enough digital channels available through efficient use of SFN's in the 28-50 UHF range. Heck if a country like the USA can do it with their thousands of terrestrial transmitters I don't think we will have issues. We just have to get our act together an turn off the inefficient analogue broadcasts.

Edited August 6, 2009 by davmel

[DrP]

The research into TV compression standard has moved from 2D to 3D. The 3D will use MPEG-4 compression for the Y, Pr, Pb and a depth signal will be added. The audio will be aacPlus V2 surround.

The engineering bodies recently called for submissions for the video compressor that will come after MPEG-4 AVC. '2D' is very much alive and under development.

[DrP]

Heck if a country like the USA can do it with their thousands of terrestrial transmitters I don't think we will have issues.

Not forgetting that the USA planned a MFN system, giving Australia's SFNs even more room to move when compared to the USA. SFNs have since proven to be possible in an ATSC environment but the USA has not made any public use of them to date.

[Aurora8]

Speaking of bitrates, can anyone post the bitrates for the digital 44 channels here in Sydney? Is digital 44 broadcasting with a whole 22/23 Megabit multiplex? Thanks.

Edited August 7, 2009 by cpandilo

[Skid_MacMarx]

Skid_MacMarx,

There are some areas of Northern and Western Sydney which have signals which will be increased when analog transmitters in the Manning river area and Bathurst are switched off. Most other areas will remain unchanged. There are some areas in which digital translators are yet to go on air.

alanh,

Skid_MacMarx was not after an answer to a problem, but rather giving an example.

As digtalj pointed out, I was speaking generally.

Back when DTV was first introduced, I don't remember if it was on the ol' DBA forum or a conversation with Steve (NBN) or Glenn and it was mentioned that a (large?)number of digital TXs were running at half-power or reduced-power because of the potential to interfere with the analog signal... so I thought the reduced power was more widespread than as you indicated.. I'm sure someone said (some?, all?) the sugarloaf (Newcastle, NSW) digital tx are reduced.. I could be wrong... it was about 8-9 years ago

Even thought I have an ideal set-up.. wisi aerial and all... I'm on border of the Wyong and Sugarloaf digital signals..

From day dot, the ABC digital signals has always broken up.. no issues with the ABC 5A analog signal though

In my case, I was told after the switch off, the issue will be addressed as they can whack up the power.

Now after reading your reply, I'm quite disappointed.

cheers

[alanh]

Skid_MacMarx,

Now you mention specific transmitters there are exceptions.

ABHN37 digital is half the power of its SBS and commercial counterparts.

The power of all the Wyong transmitters is identical. Both ABC transmitter are on channel 37 but Mt Sugarloaf is hroizontally polarised and Wyong is vertically polarised.

Horizontally polarised signals at this range should be high gain Yagi-Uda and if the signal is too strong attenuate it, vertically polarised signals at this range hould be a phased array. This is to get maximum directivity in the horizontal plane.

AlanH

[Guest]

I have a question. Once analogue is switched off and assuming the broadcasters acquire the analogue space for digital channels, what is the maximum amount of SD channels we can possibly have on DTV, also assuming all SD channels are 4-6mbs?

I think ACMA are actually going to take back the analog spectrum from the broadcasters to sell if off for telecommunications use

[davmel]

I think ACMA are actually going to take back the analog spectrum from the broadcasters to sell if off for telecommunications use

That's a rumour from people that don't understand how spectrum is allocated. The VHF high band and UHF low band will only be allocated for broadcast use for DVB-T, DVB-H, DAB etc as that is what the spectrum is internationally allocated for. Putting cellular style telco transmissions in their place would cause interference.

The UHF high band (channels 50+) will be re-allocated for telcos as that is what international regulators are falling over themselves to do right now and have it harmonised as a new worldwide harmonised band for LTE/WiMax.

Edited August 8, 2009 by davmel

[charlesc]

That's a rumour from people that understand how spectrum is allocated.

Is it just me, or does that sentence need a bit more work...

I don't think it's consistent with the rest of the message.

...that don't understand ?