Cary Cinema Owners & Discussion Thread

[Curious]

Howdy Stan, I agree with Al regarding the valve going to the loft for pure escapism, I have a similar set-up in my study which is a Melody H34 Signature hooked up to my Denon CD player (this is a 2 channel only room and is a great place to dissapear to )

Also good recommendation to try and loan a Cinema 11a for a home test (here in Oz we are limited with what we can borrow as a lot of equipment in the high end bracket is only brought in for an order )

Good luck with the experimenting

Cheers,

Curious

[gostan]

hi stan, if wondering on the cinema's 2ch abilities why not borrow one from an check out what its like vs your vtl setup, that will give you some ideas on what the cinema is like plus its 2ch abilities, though personally I like the sounds of that loft system if thats where you intend putting the tube rig, would be a very nice place to escape ! hehe

re using the zektor and two hi-def players utilising multi channell analog, keep in mind that in that kind of setup you will be totally reliant on the quality of the dacs and analog output stage of the players which in many cases especially in cheaper video players this can be a bit of an after thought and might hold things back sonically. Also keep in mind with such an arrangement you will also be limited to what decoding the players can do internally and at present there isnt a player that can do it all to output via analog. Additionally a little while back I visited someone using a zektor with twin players hooked up via analog multichannel and can tell you the sight of 3 sets of analog multichannel rca's or 18-24 RCAs going between the twin players and the zektor and onto the amp is not to be underestimated !, also with so many rcas potentially very easy to pick up hum as well which was somethign quite evident in this system. a way out of this might be to go a dual player like the samsung 5000 thats due, would only need one set of analog multichannel that way but it limits choice of player and would be at the mercy of the sammy as to the quality of the result !

I totally agree what you say that "the 11V has not been released yet and until it is released, it does not even exist an an option for any of us."

if you already have an integra 9.8 on way why not wait till it lands, and then once the 11v is released try borrow from a dealer both a 11a and 11v and check out vs the integra. after all in your country the integra is only a US $1700 proposition vs the cinema combo which is a lot lot more up in pricing. And given gear at this sort of price level youd really want to be home demoing I think to make sure what theyre like in use plus how it goes vs the integra to make sure spending the additional on the cary is justified for you in its benefits.

either way if do end up doign some demoing and comparisons, do post as I'm sure many on here will be very keen to read

Al,

Thanks for expressing some of my similar internal thoughts on the subject, much better than I could ever do.

My present intention is to wait for the Integra to be delivered and the Cinema 11v to be released. An in home demo/comparison of the two may be possible, but the combination of the likelihood that the Cinema 11V will be hard to get upon release in conjunction with the fact that my local Cary dealer is an independent installer, may cause a long time delay in accomplishing an in home demo/comparison.

But, the present combination of the VTL 5.5 with my B&W 803D's is sweet music to my ears. Life is really not to bad at all!

Stan

[JoshH]

First shipment of 11V's coming in later this month [all going well!] are all pre-sold - so are all the 11A's coming in.

There will not be another shipment before next year.

Stan - you should put your name down with whoever your local dealer is if you want a demo in home as I would say you have little chance this year and early next year is a moving target for who will buy what demo stock.

[gostan]

First shipment of 11V's coming in later this month [all going well!] are all pre-sold - so are all the 11A's coming in.

Josh,

This is good news that delivery of the 11V's is still on target for end of November.

Stan

[Psycho!]

Hey STan, I read in one of the threads on AVS that a chap State side had been told by his dealer that he could not get an Integra 9.8 in until late January, 08? Does that sound right to you?, why are they so hard to source?

[gostan]

Hey STan, I read in one of the threads on AVS that a chap State side had been told by his dealer that he could not get an Integra 9.8 in until late January, 08? Does that sound right to you?, why are they so hard to source?

One of three possible reasons:

1. Shortage of hdmi 1.3a chips.

2. Integra/Onkyo is changing the manufacturing process to rectify some internal issues.

3. Some combination of the two.

My dealer has no idea when the Integra 9.8 that I ordered on September 24th will be delivered. Onkyo/Integra is certainly making things difficult for its dealers and purchasers alike. They are certainly not a consumer friendly company. No real information given to dealers and/or consumers. And no public posing of recent firmware upgrade.

I have not cancelled my order, but I am tired of waiting for them.

So, I did place an order for the Cary Cinema 11 duo. By next weekend I will have surround sound in my new condo. And I will be able to compare the 2 channel audio of the C11 with my VTL. And I am sure that the Integra will be delivered the day after the C11 comes in.

Stan

[JoshH]

And I am sure that the Integra will be delivered the day after the C11 comes in.

When the Integra arrives that will give you a door stop as well *joke*

[cwt]

My dealer has no idea when the Integra 9.8 that I ordered on September 24th will be delivered. Onkyo/Integra is certainly making things difficult for its dealers and purchasers alike. They are certainly not a consumer friendly company. No real information given to dealers and/or consumers. And no public posing of recent firmware upgrade.

I have not cancelled my order, but I am tired of waiting for them.

Stan

You have certainly struck a chord with me Stan -and the other people in the txnr1000 thread at avs .We all bought a dtr 10.5 or equiv on the promise off its card upgradability . One new card in 3 years speaks volumes . Strung us along with promises of a hdmi 1.2 card then 1.3 -nothing .The last insult was the lousy trade in deal offered on a fraction of the price 905.

Hence my decision to trust cary instead . Sorry for the vent/rant :ph34r:

[gostan]

When the Integra arrives that will give you a door stop as well *joke*

Good thing the Integra is a big piece. I have a very heavy door.

Josh, I was told that there will be 11V units available in early December, but the verdict is still out as to how many will be able to be produced and released in the initial allotment. I hope that you do receive all that you expect. That way we can get some reviews and analysis on the product pretty quickly.

Stan

[JoshH]

Good thing the Integra is a big piece. I have a very heavy door.

Josh, I was told that there will be 11V units available in early December, but the verdict is still out as to how many will be able to be produced and released in the initial allotment. I hope that you do receive all that you expect. That way we can get some reviews and analysis on the product pretty quickly.

Stan

Me too Stan.

I know the Aust distributor is chasing them up voraciously for us.

[franin]

You have certainly struck a chord with me Stan -and the other people in the txnr1000 thread at avs .We all bought a dtr 10.5 or equiv on the promise off its card upgradability . One new card in 3 years speaks volumes . Strung us along with promises of a hdmi 1.2 card then 1.3 -nothing .The last insult was the lousy trade in deal offered on a fraction of the price 905.

Hence my decision to trust cary instead . Sorry for the vent/rant :ph34r:

Don't blame you cwt for being mad at integra, did they offer any upgrades with that amp?

[cwt]

Don't blame you cwt for being mad at integra, did they offer any upgrades with that amp?

Thanks Franin ; the only upgrade they managed was a new digital radio/net tune card for Europe/America IIRC. If they hadnt deep sixed i-link I would have been OK

[gostan]

Me too Stan.

I know the Aust distributor is chasing them up voraciously for us.

My 11 A should be delivered by the end of next week. Can your Aust distributor chase an 11V to Boston?

[JoshH]

My 11 A should be delivered by the end of next week. Can your Aust distributor chase an 11V to Boston?

heh :-)

Nice 1- glad to hear you are getting the Cary gear - its top notch. I know you will love it.

[ripclaw]

My 11 A should be delivered by the end of next week. Can your Aust distributor chase an 11V to Boston?

Stan, I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions of your new toy.

[gostan]

Stan, I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions of your new toy.

No delivery this week. Cary must have somehow shipped my unit to Josh by mistake

[JoshH]

No delivery this week. Cary must have somehow shipped my unit to Josh by mistake

I think customs must have them atm.......

[jackox]

Hi guys.

My first message on this forum.

This is my situation : I got an old Integra Research RDC7, so no HDMI. I also have a Crystalio II VPS3800 so no audio 7.1 LPCM pass-through over HDMI2 (limited to DD, DTS and PCM 2.0).

I've been watching the AVS Cinema11 V thread but it seems to be sleeping, all the fresh news comes here, so here I am.

I do think the Cinema11 V + Cinema11 A makes alot of sens ! I thought that the Cinema11 A did not have any HD audio codec decoding capabilities, if it does TrueHD then that is a good bonus even if any HD players out there can did it internaly.

Well anyway if I just have up to 7.1 LPCM and DTS-HD MA decoded to LPCM inside the Cinema11 V then the combo is already worth the deal. That would be the first high end combination that propose high perf scaling with 120Hz display readyness, full CMS, my beloved TrueLife, all HD audio codec compatible, high end DACs and sure all the goodness and ease of the video and audio switching that using a video processor along with an audio processor can give.

My only concern (that shall be discussed somewhere else in the forum I guess) is the auto calibration and the EQ correction stage of the Cinema11 A. It really looks like AudysseyXT (I got an Audyssey EQ pro anyway + its calibration kit, very rare thing for an individual non installer pro). It is said not to be operative in every use situation ?? Can someone hint me or direct me where this is clarified ?! Thanks.

I will watch with great expectations what will say the first to get their hands on the Cinema11 V.

[Wavetrain]

Hi guys.

My first message on this forum.

This is my situation : I got an old Integra Research RDC7, so no HDMI. I also have a Crystalio II VPS3800 so no audio 7.1 LPCM pass-through over HDMI2 (limited to DD, DTS and PCM 2.0).

I've been watching the AVS Cinema11 V thread but it seems to be sleeping, all the fresh news comes here, so here I am.

I do think the Cinema11 V + Cinema11 A makes alot of sens ! I thought that the Cinema11 A did not have any HD audio codec decoding capabilities, if it does TrueHD then that is a good bonus even if any HD players out there can did it internaly.

Well anyway if I just have up to 7.1 LPCM and DTS-HD MA decoded to LPCM inside the Cinema11 V then the combo is already worth the deal. That would be the first high end combination that propose high perf scaling with 120Hz display readyness, full CMS, my beloved TrueLife, all HD audio codec compatible, high end DACs and sure all the goodness and ease of the video and audio switching that using a video processor along with an audio processor can give.

My only concern (that shall be discussed somewhere else in the forum I guess) is the auto calibration and the EQ correction stage of the Cinema11 A. It really looks like AudysseyXT (I got an Audyssey EQ pro anyway + its calibration kit, very rare thing for an individual non installer pro). It is said not to be operative in every use situation ?? Can someone hint me or direct me where this is clarified ?! Thanks.

I will watch with great expectations what will say the first to get their hands on the Cinema11 V.

Hi Jackox,

Thanks, for your commenst on the 11v.

I am also the Australian distributor for Audyssey, so feel free to ask any questions. I have been EQ systems for longer than most people and I am yet to find a limitation with the Audyssey. Most high end A/V products products have a form of EQ on board, but it is really just tonal adjustments, rather than dealing with specific freq problems. The same goes for the Velodyne subwoofers. With 4 bands of EQ once again, the Velodyne is just doing tonal balance, not dealing with standing wave issues. The Audyssey is the most advanced EQ system on the market that I have seen and everyone (and I mean everyone) can hear a clear difference in an On/Off comparision, as you must know if you own one. Which state are you in?

Regards,

David

[betty boop]

Hi Jackox,

Thanks, for your commenst on the 11v.

I am also the Australian distributor for Audyssey, so feel free to ask any questions. I have been EQ systems for longer than most people and I am yet to find a limitation with the Audyssey. Most high end A/V products products have a form of EQ on board, but it is really just tonal adjustments, rather than dealing with specific freq problems. The same goes for the Velodyne subwoofers. With 4 bands of EQ once again, the Velodyne is just doing tonal balance, not dealing with standing wave issues. The Audyssey is the most advanced EQ system on the market that I have seen and everyone (and I mean everyone) can hear a clear difference in an On/Off comparision, as you must know if you own one. Which state are you in?

Regards,

David

interesting to hear thoughts re the velodyne subwoofers, is that a brand you sell ? are the DD range something you are familiar with. Since there are infact 8 bands of EQ as far as I know with my velodyne DD15. I'd hardly call it "tonal balance". Its inbuilt rta and graphic and parametric Eq and its huge setup and adjustment capabilities, I've personally found to very good in use to acheive a pretty flat response in my room and to blend in really well with my mains for 2ch to a great result.

I am sure the audessey is a cracking thing and hope to experience it myself one day, but if velodyne is not a brand you sell, very dissapointing to see you stoop to critical comment of competitor product that you do not sell to push your own forward.

[Wavetrain]

interesting to hear thoughts re the velodyne subwoofers, is that a brand you sell ? are the DD range something you are familiar with. Since there are infact 8 bands of EQ as far as I know with my velodyne DD15. I'd hardly call it "tonal balance". Its inbuilt rta and graphic and parametric Eq and its huge setup and adjustment capabilities, I've personally found to very good in use to acheive a pretty flat response in my room and to blend in really well with my mains for 2ch to a great result.

I am sure the audessey is a cracking thing and hope to experience it myself one day, but if velodyne is not a brand you sell, very dissapointing to see you stoop to critical comment of competitor product that you do not sell to push your own forward.

Hi Al,

No I don't sell it. Yes I have used it and Velodyne make great subwoofers. But people think this is the same thing as what is currectly available in the Audyssey. I have used the brand on/off for over a decade and would not hesitate to recommend their products.

I have only used the new DD EQ software once. Sorry if I got the number of bands wrong, it was almost a year ago I used it. It was just an example. My comment still stands. It does not have the resolution to handle complex bass issues as well as the best old style digital parametric EQ (the veoldyne software is of similar vintage). The analysis software does not also resolve every issue for you to see what the problems are. You need 1/12 octave equipment to do this. Nor does it have the mathmatical processing power to deal with multiply seating positions or the ability to deal with freq/phase issues. Is it better than nothing. Absolutely and the other tools in the software are useful. But there is no comparision between what it is doing and the Audyssey. The Audyssey has about 15 times the resolution. That is the point I am trying to get across. The same applys to Cary (which I sell) and every version (each brand has done it differently) I have seen of EQ built into products (apart from the Audyssey built into various products). I have been EQ systems in projects for years using expensive high resolution equipment. I would say I have more experience in this area than most in the industry.

I am not putting Velodyne down, but rather pointing out a technology difference. Velodyne comes up often, so it is easy to make the point. If you want another example, then Meridian's room correction would come to mind. I am sure all of these companies will update their EQ as Audyssey and other companies offer higher res options.

Regards,

David

Regards,

David

[betty boop]

Hi Al,

No I don't sell it. Yes I have used it and Velodyne make great subwoofers. But people think this is the same thing as what is currectly available in the Audyssey. I have used the brand on/off for over a decade and would not hesitate to recommend their products.

I have only used the new DD EQ software once. Sorry if I got the number of bands wrong, it was almost a year ago I used it. It was just an example. My comment still stands. It does not have the resolution to handle complex bass issues as well as the best old style digital parametric EQ (the veoldyne software is of similar vintage). The analysis software does not also resolve every issue for you to see what the problems are. You need 1/12 octave equipment to do this. Nor does it have the mathmatical processing power to deal with multiply seating positions or the ability to deal with freq/phase issues. Is it better than nothing. Absolutely and the other tools in the software are useful. But there is no comparision between what it is doing and the Audyssey. The Audyssey has about 15 times the resolution. That is the point I am trying to get across. The same applys to Cary (which I sell) and every version (each brand has done it differently) I have seen of EQ built into products (apart from the Audyssey built into various products). I have been EQ systems in projects for years using expensive high resolution equipment. I would say I have more experience in this area than most in the industry.

I am not putting Velodyne down, but rather pointing out a technology difference. Velodyne comes up often, so it is easy to make the point. If you want another example, then Meridian's room correction would come to mind. I am sure all of these companies will update their EQ as Audyssey and other companies offer higher res options.

Regards,

David

Regards,

David

hi david, yes I'm sure the audyssey unit is top notch and very flexible in use with capability as with what meridian run have only read about it never experienced either. hopefully one day get to experience these for myself and benefit they bring.

[Wavetrain]

Hi Everyone,

Just a quick update.

The Cinema 11a have arrived and are awaiting customs clearance, so I should have these in my hands in the next few days.

Cary have let me know that they are still yet to receive their HDMI boards for the Cinema 11v and so the end of this month doesn't look possible. They will be putting out an official press release shortly to let everyone know what is happening and will notify me the minute they have arrived.

The Cienma 11v has been under video testing for a while by a professional ISF calibrator to verify that everything is as it should be on the video side. I have asked Cary to release this report for comment, so that everyone can at least find out more about the product and how it works. Cary thought that was a good idea and once again I will let you know if/when this happens.

Sorry, for the delays. I will keep you posted.

Regards,

David Moseley

[gostan]

Hi Everyone,

Just a quick update.

The Cinema 11a have arrived and are awaiting customs clearance, so I should have these in my hands in the next few days.

Cary have let me know that they are still yet to receive their HDMI boards for the Cinema 11v and so the end of this month doesn't look possible. They will be putting out an official press release shortly to let everyone know what is happening and will notify me the minute they have arrived.

The Cienma 11v has been under video testing for a while by a professional ISF calibrator to verify that everything is as it should be on the video side. I have asked Cary to release this report for comment, so that everyone can at least find out more about the product and how it works. Cary thought that was a good idea and once again I will let you know if/when this happens.

Sorry, for the delays. I will keep you posted.

Regards,

David Moseley

David,

The latest word to Cary dealers here in the States is an expected eta of the first week in December, but all dealers were told to advise all customers that delivery will be the second week in December. We cannot really blame Cary as there are so many manufacturers suffering shortages and delays with new 1.3A devices. But it is still questionable as to how Cary will have the time to take deliver of the hdmi boards, install them and QC them in such a short time period. Haste makes waste in this new era of hdmi.

The 11V will take up a lot of room under the tree this December. Hopefully not.

Pushing Cary to release some solid information on the 11V is a wonderful idea. Keep pushing for more information. With the various delays and the like, this would be a great step by Cary to disseminate some real information on the 11V unit.

Stan

[jackox]

Hi Jackox,

Thanks, for your commenst on the 11v.

I am also the Australian distributor for Audyssey, so feel free to ask any questions. I have been EQ systems for longer than most people and I am yet to find a limitation with the Audyssey. Most high end A/V products products have a form of EQ on board, but it is really just tonal adjustments, rather than dealing with specific freq problems. The same goes for the Velodyne subwoofers. With 4 bands of EQ once again, the Velodyne is just doing tonal balance, not dealing with standing wave issues. The Audyssey is the most advanced EQ system on the market that I have seen and everyone (and I mean everyone) can hear a clear difference in an On/Off comparision, as you must know if you own one. Which state are you in?

Regards,

David

I agree with your comments about Audyssey !

All my home theater fellow friends who listened to the EQ pro were simply flown away ! I did a VS match with Velodyne integrated EQ (same as SMS1) and the EQ pro, the Velodyne correction is outperformed ! The AudysseyXT bass filtering is way better ! A friend tried the Trinnov systeme (very expensive boxe), he found the EQ pro just as good and it is for the fraction of the price ! I had some info about the new standalone Audyssey boxes and they are very exciting (I guess it is still confidential so I won't say more).

As for where I live ... well some place fare fare away ... and that is unfortunate ! France that is !

I just came here to enjoy the exciting news, get the good advices and chat with nice folks !