RodN Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Sounds like a great combination (11a/11v) but what are we looking at all up for these? $8k $9k? There is some stiff competition in that range although the 11v functionality seems very very good above other units in that range.
Wavetrain Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 Sounds like a great combination (11a/11v) but what are we looking at all up for these? $8k $9k? There is some stiff competition in that range although the 11v functionality seems very very good above other units in that range. The sound quality of the Cinema 11a is without doubt. Just read the reviews on the AVS forum, which are many. Coming from a high end 2ch background with an emphasis on valve amps, Cary's Cinema 11a is regarded as one of the best 2ch A/V pre amps out there. One of the main reasons for this was getting rid of the video circuitry out of the pre amp. Anyone who hears the product instantly recognises that there is all the detail/fidelity that any other product provides, but there is also no harhness to the sound. This is also reflected in their power amps, which have won numerous awards. I know people who have done a direct comparsion with the Elektra power amp everyone is ravy about. No one interested in a musical power amp you buy it if they listened to Cary. The Cinema 11v now adds scaling capabilities found only in the top video scalers (Lumegen, DVDO, Crystallio) on the market, with more inputs/outputs then you will find on any all-in-one A/V pre amp. Having worked with the Crytsallio, you guys won't be throwing away your DVD collection. These high end scalers can make DVD look incredible. Then add the calibration tools, which many projectors do not have (the JVC DILA being one of the worst offenders) and you are starting to get a combination of products that can really bring a system to life. Trust me, you will be hearing a lot more about these products as people get their hands on them, both here and in the US. I think this is a unique combination and approach to A/V and I don't think there is a price comparable product out there. But you will soon all be able to find that out for yourselves. Regards, David Moseley
betty boop Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 The sound quality of the Cinema 11a is without doubt. Just read the reviews on the AVS forum, which are many. Coming from a high end 2ch background with an emphasis on valve amps, Cary's Cinema 11a is regarded as one of the best 2ch A/V pre amps out there. One of the main reasons for this was getting rid of the video circuitry out of the pre amp. Anyone who hears the product instantly recognises that there is all the detail/fidelity that any other product provides, but there is also no harhness to the sound. This is also reflected in their power amps, which have won numerous awards. I know people who have done a direct comparsion with the Elektra power amp everyone is ravy about. No one interested in a musical power amp you buy it if they listened to Cary.The Cinema 11v now adds scaling capabilities found only in the top video scalers (Lumegen, DVDO, Crystallio) on the market, with more inputs/outputs then you will find on any all-in-one A/V pre amp. Having worked with the Crytsallio, you guys won't be throwing away your DVD collection. These high end scalers can make DVD look incredible. Then add the calibration tools, which many projectors do not have (the JVC DILA being one of the worst offenders) and you are starting to get a combination of products that can really bring a system to life. Trust me, you will be hearing a lot more about these products as people get their hands on them, both here and in the US. I think this is a unique combination and approach to A/V and I don't think there is a price comparable product out there. But you will soon all be able to find that out for yourselves. Regards, David Moseley I dont think its a case of "trust me" david with all due respect ! excuse me if I show little credence for comments from someone who very obviously has a commercial vested interest in the product and without qualms to even stoop to denigrating competitors to push their own forward ! this is a fair outlay for equipment. I know, I for one would like to know how it actualyl stacks up. I have demoed quite a few "high end" av pre-pros in my time that were easy beats by much cheaper 2ch gear and not necessarily any better in the HT department to justify their massive price. I for one would want to know why I would spend anymore than on this unit here than if an affordable pre-pro, or heaven forbid any one of the new all dancing hdmi capable AVRs did just as well ?. only comparisons with other gear including similar priced options will answer that one. and not everyone has the need for the scaling side, which is constantly getting updated anyways. theyre certainly pointless for the new hi-def formats. and you just have to see the the people with their vp30..50 that are constantly looking to upgrading almost on a yearly basis. in some ways linking the video side to the audio hdmi inputs think is potentially flawed in the long term unless cary is ready to provide upgrades down the track. "there isnt a comparable product price wise ?" think we're yet to see let alone hear the combination. think will reserve that judgement till that point in time till actaully can compare with anything else out there in the market place be it at the same comparable price or above or below it.
jimmmy Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 I know people who have done a direct comparsion with the Elektra power amp everyone is ravy about. No one interested in a musical power amp you buy it if they listened to Cary.Regards, David Moseley huh? sorry David either one of us is hung over or this sentence doesn't make any sense??? Could you elaborate? cheers James
franin Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 Hi Guys,I am the Australian distributor. The Dolby TrueHD decoders are alrteady onboard the Cinema 11a, but where not accessible without the Cienma 11v. Regards, David Moseley Im still wondering why this has only been mentioned now!
franin Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 The sound quality of the Cinema 11a is without doubt. Just read the reviews on the AVS forum, which are many. Coming from a high end 2ch background with an emphasis on valve amps, Cary's Cinema 11a is regarded as one of the best 2ch A/V pre amps out there. One of the main reasons for this was getting rid of the video circuitry out of the pre amp. Anyone who hears the product instantly recognises that there is all the detail/fidelity that any other product provides, but there is also no harhness to the sound. This is also reflected in their power amps, which have won numerous awards. I know people who have done a direct comparsion with the Elektra power amp everyone is ravy about. No one interested in a musical power amp you buy it if they listened to Cary. David, I have not had the opportunity of hearing one as of yet, but im sure the sound quality is awesome on cinema 11a but I think there will be many that will disagree with that comment.We all could sit down and argue that we have the best sounding system, but that would be just plain silly.I guess if you talk to the guys at some of the specailist shops,I could think of one simplu hifi in subiaco, they would laugh at that comment.
Wavetrain Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 I dont think its a case of "trust me" david with all due respect ! excuse me if I show little credence for comments from someone who very obviously has a commercial vested interest in the product and without qualms to even stoop to denigrating competitor to push their own forward ! this is a fair outlay for equipment. I know, I for one would like to know how it actualyl stacks up. I have demoed quite a few "high end" av pre-pros in my time that were easy beats by much cheaper 2ch gear and not necessarily any better in the HT department to justify their massive price. I for one would want to know why I would spend anymore than on this unit here than if an affordable pre-pro, or heaven forbid any one of the new all dancing hdmi capable AVRs did just as well ?. only comparisons with other gear including similar priced options will answer that one. and not everyone has the need for the scaling side, which is constantly getting updated anyways. theyre certainly pointless for the new hi-def formats. and you just have to see the the people with their vp30..50 that are constantly looking to upgrading almost on a yearly basis. in some ways linking the video side to the audio hdmi inputs think is potentially flawed in the long term unless cary is ready to provide upgrades down the track. "there isnt a comparable product price wise ?" think we're yet to see let alone hear the combination. think will reserve that judgement till that point in time till actaully can compare with anything else out there in the market place be it at the same comparable price or above or below it. I only said trust me with regard to the fact you will be hearing a lot about these products. I expect anyone to listen and compare. That is what my dealers are doing and what I would do and have done. This is a new brand to this market. Dealers are only going to take it on if it is better than what they are currently using (ie better value for money). Anyone who nows me knows that I do not comromise on quality and I am not big on bells and whistles. I was a high end custom designer for over 10 years and have worked with Lexicon, Meridian, Parasound, Integra Research, etc. I still design cinemas for many of the top custom companies in Australia and lecture in cienma acoustics for CEDIA. The video capabilities of the video scaler also relates to DTV, not just DVD or HDDVD or Bluray. Yes there will always be improvements, but the scaling qualities of say a VP50pro, Crystallio2 or Lumagen Radiance are good enough that I doubt anyone would complain about poor picture quality. Being ISF certified, I am more excited about the calibration tools than anything. Read the AVSForum, where there are pages on pages of praise for the CInema 11a as a great value for money product. Have a listen, if you have a chance. The reason I said there is not a comparable product for the price is because no other company is offering this type of solution for a similar price. You can't compare a product that does not keep the video circuit external to the audio and offers this level of video switching/scaling. I know of extremely high end products that do things this way. No one in this price range. No AVR is going to match a high end pre for sound quality. I tested $7,000 AVR as a processor against Lexicons MC1 and MC12, running 300W ME mono blocks. There was no comparison. All I am saying it that time will tell. I want to promote the product yes, but do not read to far into my comments. It is too easy to misinterpret. I do not want ot offend anyone, but I do want people to hear/see the products and discuss them. Regards, David Moseley PS I wish they had a spell check on this thing.
Wavetrain Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 huh?sorry David either one of us is hung over or this sentence doesn't make any sense??? Could you elaborate? cheers James You are right. Sorry, but it is no my intention to offend anyone. I have given some additional info to resolve some questions I saw re the CInema 11a & 11v. That is what I set out to do. I think I will leave it at that. Regards, David Moseley
franin Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 Hi Guys,I am the Australian distributor. The Dolby TrueHD decoders are alrteady onboard the Cinema 11a, but where not accessible without the Cienma 11v. Regards, David Moseley David, JoshH has one, but he never mentioned that it has the dolby true hd decoders on board.Could someone direct me to the link, where he has? Unfortunatley I must have missed it!
jimmmy Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 You are right. Sorry, but it is no my intention to offend anyone. I have given some additional info to resolve some questions I saw re the CInema 11a & 11v. That is what I set out to do. I think I will leave it at that.Regards, David Moseley whoa whoa whoa........ I did not suggest you were bad mouthing anything. By all means I think you should be able to say the elektra is a piece of crap or whatever. I would not necessarily agree but you are entitled to your opinion. Free speech I think it is called. Not sure as I think it is illegal nowadays. I own one and am confident enough in my own ears to know what I like. I don't need others to agree with me to make me feel better about it. What I was actually suggesting was that, grammatically, your sentence made no sense to me whatsoever. I could not even ascertain your general 'gist' from it. I may be alone but if you could elaborate that would be nice. cheers James
Psycho! Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 I do like the idea of separate units for the different duties. I realised early in the piece that I could not afford the Carey power amps, so I auditioned and very much liked the Elektra...that why I have ordered one in the group buy. I am still interested in these units and would hazard the guess that an 11a+11v + Elektra would keep me pretty happy. no?
cwt Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 David, JoshH has one, but he never mentioned that it has the dolby true hd decoders on board.Could someone direct me to the link, where he has? Unfortunatley I must have missed it! Hi Franin; your right Josh didnt specifically mention it IIRC; but if you read his review closely he does mention processing in the amp -albeit with the ma decoded in the 11v. ' 11V is a souped up video processor [remember the Cinema 11A is audio only] with the ability to strip the Dolby Digital Plus and DTS HD MA from the HDMI V1.3 connection and pass it to the Cinema 11A for processing. Voila! Not only are you up to date with the latest audio formats, but you are using individual processors dedicated to both video and audio. It doesn’t get any better. ' If you trawl through the cary 11a thread at avs its probably mentioned too
franin Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 Hi Franin; your right Josh didnt specifically mention it IIRC; but if you read his review closely he does mention processing in the amp -albeit with the ma decoded in the 11v.' 11V is a souped up video processor [remember the Cinema 11A is audio only] with the ability to strip the Dolby Digital Plus and DTS HD MA from the HDMI V1.3 connection and pass it to the Cinema 11A for processing. Voila! Not only are you up to date with the latest audio formats, but you are using individual processors dedicated to both video and audio. It doesn’t get any better. ' If you trawl through the cary 11a thread at avs its probably mentioned too What I want to know is that wavetrain has said that the Dolby TrueHD decoders are already onboard the Cinema 11a. Not mentioned anywhere on the pdf,no logo on the amp.I think by the 11a having dolby true hd decoder on board you would mention it on the pdf even the manual regardless if you need 11v to use it.Well being that if I was going to sell this product that would have to be one of the main selling points,especially with all these new avrs coming out that support the formats.Everyone who is upgrading there recviever/processor are now looking if they decode the new audio formats.I mean most avr/processors at the moment that have hdmi can accept these new audio formats through pcm.
Wavetrain Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 What I want to know is that wavetrain has said that the Dolby TrueHD decoders are already onboard the Cinema 11a. Not mentioned anywhere on the pdf,no logo on the amp.I think by the 11a having dolby true hd decoder on board you would mention it on the pdf even the manual regardless if you need 11v to use it.Well being that if I was going to sell this product that would have to be one of the main selling points,especially with all these new avrs coming out that support the formats.Everyone who is upgrading there recviever/processor are now looking if they decode the new audio formats.I mean most avr/processors at the moment that have hdmi can accept these new audio formats through pcm. The Dolby chip used in the Cinema 11a was the latest available and included Dolby True HD, since it was available at the time. It is not accessable without the Cienma 11v and HDMI v1.3. It would have cost more to put in a seperate processor for this on the 11v. The DTS MA processor has only recently become available. This has been confirmed to me on seperate occassions, as I to thought it odd when it was first mentioned to me in passing. As it is not accesible on the product as a stand alone, they I assume are not promotng the fact that it is there or can't legally. They have however, been promoting that the CInema 11v will allow all surround formats to be played on the 11a/11v combination. The Digilink is extremely high bandwidth and is capabale of passing any combination of audio down to the 11a for processiing, either as straight digital or 7.1ch 96/24 PCM. The connector is a high bandwidth computer product and was chosen specfically for this purpose. Until I actually get the product in my hands, that is as much as I know. Along with the product spec sheet, there is currently no further info. I do not have a manual as of yet. I will be emailing Cary shortly to get an eta on the 1st shipment. I will post when they are due to land. Hope that helps resolve any confusion. Regards, David Moseley
franin Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 as I to thought it odd when it was first mentioned to me in passing. As it is not accesible on the product as a stand alone, they I assume are not promotng the fact that it is there or can't legally. They have however, been promoting that the CInema 11v will allow all surround formats to be played on the 11a/11v combination. well i found it very odd also, because they did not promote it and it's the first time I've heard about it.I think it's great if it has but I thought they would of promoted it in a way where(legally) they mention dolby true hd.* *Dolby true HD can only be accesed by cinema 11v That will still work on a pdf brochure.Im interested to read your review david when you get the 11v to see how it all works with the new audio formats.
gostan Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 The Dolby chip used in the Cinema 11a was the latest available and included Dolby True HD, since it was available at the time. It is not accessable without the Cienma 11v and HDMI v1.3. It would have cost more to put in a seperate processor for this on the 11v. The DTS MA processor has only recently become available. This has been confirmed to me on seperate occassions, as I to thought it odd when it was first mentioned to me in passing. As it is not accesible on the product as a stand alone, they I assume are not promotng the fact that it is there or can't legally. They have however, been promoting that the CInema 11v will allow all surround formats to be played on the 11a/11v combination.The Digilink is extremely high bandwidth and is capabale of passing any combination of audio down to the 11a for processiing, either as straight digital or 7.1ch 96/24 PCM. The connector is a high bandwidth computer product and was chosen specfically for this purpose. Until I actually get the product in my hands, that is as much as I know. Along with the product spec sheet, there is currently no further info. I do not have a manual as of yet. I will be emailing Cary shortly to get an eta on the 1st shipment. I will post when they are due to land. Hope that helps resolve any confusion. Regards, David MoseleyD David, If the DTS MA decoders have only just become available - and the DolbyHD decoder was already included in the Cinema 11A - Are you indicating that Cary is upgrading the previously released Cinema 11A with the new DTS MA decoder via a hardware upgrade??Not meaning to put you on the spot - but this issue is really confusing with the lack of a Dolby HD label on the 11A and with the DTS MA being an entirely newly available decoder chip (although the Toshiba HD XA2 is supposedly software upgradeable to DTS MA, so why couldn't the Cary Cinema 11A be software upgradeable to DTS MA and/or Dolby TrueHD?) Thanks for your continued responses. We appreciate it. Stan
Curious Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 David, If the DTS MA decoders have only just become available - and the DolbyHD decoder was already included in the Cinema 11A - Are you indicating that Cary is upgrading the previously released Cinema 11A with the new DTS MA decoder via a hardware upgrade??Not meaning to put you on the spot - but this issue is really confusing with the lack of a Dolby HD label on the 11A and with the DTS MA being an entirely newly available decoder chip (although the Toshiba HD XA2 is supposedly software upgradeable to DTS MA, so why couldn't the Cary Cinema 11A be software upgradeable to DTS MA and/or Dolby TrueHD?) Thanks for your continued responses. We appreciate it. Stan Howdy Stan, As someone who is committed to purchasing the Cinema 11a & 11v I am interested in the questions being posed here...I too am relying on the information that David and Josh are receiving from Cary to ensure I will be able to decode TrueHD and DTS HD MA. If the units cannot do this then it's a deal breaker for me (and that would be a huge disappointment as I really want this deal to go as planned!). Josh has done the right thing by assuring me that he will be confirming the presence of DTS HD MA decoding when he receives the first shipment of 11v units, and he is happy to personally demonstrate this to his purchasers, I see no reason to doubt his intention or ability to do as he has promised Additionally I expect that once the two units are paired then the TrueHD decoding (present in the 11a) will be able to be shown to be operational as well. Just my 2c but for reasons of clarity I feel it necessary to share my take on the message that David is trying to impart...Dolby TrueHD is already on board the current Cinema 11a and DTS HD MA is now included in the 11v (one of the reasons it's release had been delayed). Rereading Josh and David's responses here does not change that assumption for me....please advise where you feel it says otherwise? Cheers, Curious
franin Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 Just my 2c but for reasons of clarity I feel it necessary to share my take on the message that David is trying to impart...Dolby TrueHD is already on board the current Cinema 11a and DTS HD MA is now included in the 11v (one of the reasons it's release had been delayed). Rereading Josh and David's responses here does not change that assumption for me....please advise where you feel it says otherwise?Cheers, Curious So why was it never mentioned on the brochure for the 11A.
Curious Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 So why was it never mentioned on the brochure for the 11A. Clearly I am not the person to answer this for you Franin...but I wish to be sure I understand your inference, are you suggesting that DolbyTrueHD decoding does not exist in the 11a and this is why it wasn't mentioned in the brochure? Cheers, Curious
franin Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 Clearly I am not the person to answer this for you Franin...but I wish to be sure I understand your inference, are you suggesting that DolbyTrueHD decoding does not exist in the 11a and this is why it wasn't mentioned in the brochure?Cheers, Curious I find it odd that it was never mentioned before,not even mentioned on the brochure pdf.Not trying to cause any problems, but just I'd like to know and have the proof that it does.when i bought my pioneer blu-ray thay said that it decodes dolby true hd and guess what after reseaching and even talking to the technical department of pioneer it doesn't.No logo on the player,no logo on the manual and it kept referring that dolby true hd is played back as dolby digital.I wrote an e-mail to avland asking that how they can say it has dolby true hd and they did there research also in england and they agreed there was no dolby true hd on the pioneer bdp-lx70.But this is not about the pioneer, I just think that proof is needed.
betty boop Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 I find it odd that it was never mentioned before,not even mentioned on the brochure pdf.Not trying to cause any problems, but just I'd like to know and have the proof that it does.when i bought my pioneer blu-ray thay said that it decodes dolby true hd and guess what after reseaching and even talking to the technical department of pioneer it doesn't.No logo on the player,no logo on the manual and it kept referring that dolby true hd is played back as dolby digital.I wrote an e-mail to avland asking that how they can say it has dolby true hd and they did there research also in england and they agreed there was no dolby true hd on the pioneer bdp-lx70.But this is not about the pioneer, I just think that proof is needed. it would be nice to see somethign from cary to clearly clarify truehd and dtshd ma capability and being able to accept bitstream on the 11v. have not seen anything from cary in this regard either from gcad on avs or on their website anywhere. this was my original question earlier in this thread. otherwise just have to wait and the proof would be in the pudding.
gostan Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 it would be nice to see somethign from cary to clearly clarify truehd and dtshd ma capability and being able to accept bitstream on the 11v. have not seen anything from cary in this regard either from gcad on avs or on their website anywhere. this was my original question earlier in this thread. otherwise just have to wait and the proof would be in the pudding. I have asked Cary indirectly via PM and via my dealer. No firm answer(s) of any kind. That is why doubts are prevalent on this and other forums. And my take is that the delays in the 11V have nothing to do with DTS MA decoders, but are more likley directly related to finalyzing the beta software for a very complicated and intricate set of codes for the video scaling end of the 11V. Being a former owner of an Anthem D2 for 18 months, I can assure you that this is no simple matter. And, it is the likely reason for the direct lack of response from Cary. They are too busy getting the bugs out of the SW. I would be willing to bet that the hardware pieces are sitting in North Carolina as we speak.
Wavetrain Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 Hi All, While any debate is good, I don't want people to get to worked up over what is or isn't on the Cinema 11a or why they have not stated it. Cary have always promised that the combination of the Cienma 11a and 11v would play all formats including DTS-MA. I am not talking to a tech or sales manager who has no control re product development, but the guy who is behind the entire Cinema line of product. While I am also keen to see the final solution, Cary has never wavered from their statement that the units would decode all formats. As far as I am aware, the DTS-MA decoders became avaialble approx 1 month ago. I am sure they could have other issues or compliances to go through before releasing the product. That aside, their core promise has never changed. The lack of direction with HDMI and decoders not being available was one of the core reasons for taking the product down the line of seperate products. The Cinema 11v gave them time to get the latest of everything. As soon as I have more info, I or Josh will post it. Regards, David Moseley
Curious Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 Hi All,While any debate is good, I don't want people to get to worked up over what is or isn't on the Cinema 11a or why they have not stated it. Cary have always promised that the combination of the Cienma 11a and 11v would play all formats including DTS-MA. I am not talking to a tech or sales manager who has no control re product development, but the guy who is behind the entire Cinema line of product. While I am also keen to see the final solution, Cary has never wavered from their statement that the units would decode all formats. As far as I am aware, the DTS-MA decoders became avaialble approx 1 month ago. I am sure they could have other issues or compliances to go through before releasing the product. That aside, their core promise has never changed. The lack of direction with HDMI and decoders not being available was one of the core reasons for taking the product down the line of seperate products. The Cinema 11v gave them time to get the latest of everything. As soon as I have more info, I or Josh will post it. Regards, David Moseley Thanks David The units are due here soon , so I guess we'll find out in the short term guys Cheers, Curious
Curious Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 I find it odd that it was never mentioned before,not even mentioned on the brochure pdf.Not trying to cause any problems, but just I'd like to know and have the proof that it does.when i bought my pioneer blu-ray thay said that it decodes dolby true hd and guess what after reseaching and even talking to the technical department of pioneer it doesn't.No logo on the player,no logo on the manual and it kept referring that dolby true hd is played back as dolby digital.I wrote an e-mail to avland asking that how they can say it has dolby true hd and they did there research also in england and they agreed there was no dolby true hd on the pioneer bdp-lx70.But this is not about the pioneer, I just think that proof is needed. Hi Franin, I am sorry for your situation regarding the decoding on the Pioneer...definitely grounds for a return and refund I reckon! Very annoying when salespeople make misleading remarks or promises in order to sell a product Regarding the lack of avertising of TrueHD on the Cinema 11a, if I read between the lines I can imagine that Cary were concerned about creating a misconception in the market when the 11a wouldn't decode TrueHD 'cos it needed the bitstream transfer from the 11v to complete the functionality. If that's the case then it would do more harm than good to advertise a feature that was not able to be used for an unknown period of time. Anyway, just one possibility of many as to why TrueHD was not played up when the Cinema 11a was originally released Cheers, Curious
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