Guest Muon N' Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I'll probably try bi-wiring with my mate's Aurum Cantus M103 speakers, I have heard benefits doing so with some speakers in the past so need to give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I hope this has not been mentioned before, but IME, quite often greater benefits can be made by replacing the usual standard jumper plates on the rear of your speakers. If you don't want to spend that much, even just 4 lengths of modest-but- decent speaker cable used to connect the terminals will provide an exponentially better result than the usual factory supplied brass plates. Try it and see if I'm wrong. Cost will be less than $10 and I think you may be pleasantly surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 can just cut some bits of the same cable using and use instead of the jumpers... however for those split xovers... replacing the links wiht cable jumpers wont be splitting them..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I got an extra meter of the Duelund wire to make some replacements for the link plates while using one set of the 16awg. A run of 12awg on the bass end will still be worth trying with these speakers IME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thathifiguy Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I don't know how accurate this is, but from my NAD M2 manual: "Most modern high quality loudspeakers offer the option of Bi-wiring. This separates the HF crossover from the LF crossover and offers enhanced performance by preventing LF return currents from affecting the HF performance." This amp has two sets of speaker terminals exclusively for bi-wiring (not A & B). Seems odd that they would go to the trouble if they felt it made no difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James May Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, thathifiguy said: I don't know how accurate this is, but from my NAD M2 manual: "Most modern high quality loudspeakers offer the option of Bi-wiring. This separates the HF crossover from the LF crossover and offers enhanced performance by preventing LF return currents from affecting the HF performance." This amp has two sets of speaker terminals exclusively for bi-wiring (not A & B). Seems odd that they would go to the trouble if they felt it made no difference? Like speakers, makes a difference to sales figures. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 from dr rod of legend audio, http://www.legendspeakers.com.au/Backup-old-site/information/biwiring.html "One of the first major battles I fought (and won!) 3 months after joining Linn Products in Scotland as their senior loudspeaker designer was to get bi- and tri-wiring accepted for their new range of loudspeakers (Nexus, Kaber etc) which replaced their highly respected Isobarik, Kan etc. The Linn sales guys had been rubbishing bi-wiring because it had just been introduced by one of their competitors - the NIH (not invented here) syndrome. Fortunately, Linn had a 'blind listening' policy and the sales guys were blown out of the water by the huge difference bi-wiring made to the Nexus prototypes I was developing. Bi-wiring means connecting each drive-unit in a loudspeaker to the amplifier through separate leads. My experience over the past 12 years is that it improves the clarity of all loudspeakers. This should always be good but it can be bad in poor loudspeakers/audio systems or poor recordings where improved clarity just shows up the faults more. The best theoretical explanation I have come across of this (provided by Hitachi, as I remember, who own the patent for bi-wiring in Japan, when trying to sue Linn). When a current is pushed forward by the amplifier through the voice-coil in the magnetic field of a loudspeaker driver, the voice coil and attached cone move forward - the electric motor effect. However, the voice coil moving in the magnetic field generates a back voltage - the electric generator effect. In a perfect driver, the back voltage matches the forward voltage, giving rise to the driver's dynamic impedance. In the real world, the back emf is distorted by nonlinearities in the magnetic field etc giving rise to harmonic distortions and so does not exactly cancel the forward voltage. These harmonic products from one driver's terminals end up across other drivers in the loudspeaker if they have common terminals and can cause further muddling of the sound. By connecting each driver through separate leads back to the amplifier, the distorted harmonics generated by each driver can be short-circuited by the low impedance output of the amplifier. Whatever the theoretical explanation, bi- and tri-wiring can make a big difference to loudspeakers and can be the most cost effective improvement you make to your system." 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thathifiguy Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, JamesMay said: Like speakers, makes a difference to sales figures. I can maybe get that with speakers given they're passive, but it seems odd for an amplifier to be designed with a second set of amplified output terminals needlessly if there is said to be no benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundreference Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Thinking reputable brands are trying to scam their customers is rather a cynical view of our industry and perhaps world view. Are there people in the industry tying to scam you? Yes. Just like in any and every industry. Is it rampant, far ranging or the norm in this industry? Of course not! This is why we dont buy no name speakers or equipment from out of the back of white vans hanging around supermarket parking lots people 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hergest Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, JamesMay said: Like speakers, makes a difference to sales figures. I'd be curious to see examples of this as i would be surprised to see extra sales for either a loudspeaker or amplifier that was configured for bi-wiring. I don't see it as a selling point. *edit. I've just reminded myself of my reluctance to try Whatmough's loudspeakers as they have a tri-wire requirement and that actually put me off. Edited August 4, 2017 by Hergest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromelang Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Replacing the bridging plates between top and bottom frequency input terminals behind your speakers is definitely a good idea. But, you will need to watch out for a couple of issues: - Cables are, more often than not, directional (audible even for such short distances) - shorter jumper cables being pulled taut while connected between the top and bottom frequency input terminals are more susceptible to vibration, thus affecting their sound performance. Using a slightly longer jumper cable where there's a loose curvy arc when connected provides better sound. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 7 hours ago, thathifiguy said: I can maybe get that with speakers given they're passive, but it seems odd for an amplifier to be designed with a second set of amplified output terminals needlessly if there is said to be no benefit. Not at all. There are pressures on amplifier manufacturers, by retailers and consumers, to provide features that may do nothing, but, without them, sales may suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 3 hours ago, jeromelang said: Replacing the bridging plates between top and bottom frequency input terminals behind your speakers is definitely a good idea. But, you will need to watch out for a couple of issues: - Cables are, more often than not, directional (audible even for such short distances) Speaker cables are not directional. Speakers are a truly balanced load. The signal that they are supplied with is AC. Speakers and amplifiers are, therefore, agnostic WRT speaker cable directionality **. 3 hours ago, jeromelang said: - shorter jumper cables being pulled taut while connected between the top and bottom frequency input terminals are more susceptible to vibration, thus affecting their sound performance. Using a slightly longer jumper cable where there's a loose curvy arc when connected provides better sound. Well, yes, sort of. A good, stiff cable, may sound better than a floppy cable, all things being equal. ** Swapping a cable around may make a small difference to the sound, simply due to the change in connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromelang Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Never the Twain shall meet.... Haha! 7 hours ago, thathifiguy said: I can maybe get that with speakers given they're passive, but it seems odd for an amplifier to be designed with a second set of amplified output terminals needlessly if there is said to be no benefit. While it is my experience that running 2 separate pairs of cables to speakers that were specifically designed to be bi-wired provided better sound, I've found that using both pairs of speaker output terminals at the back of amplifiers actually degrade sound perfomance. Sticking to only one pair of speaker output terminals from amplifiers often sounds better. There's less flattening of the soundstaging and imaging gel more coherently from top to bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hergest Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 29 minutes ago, jeromelang said: While it is my experience that running 2 separate pairs of cables to speakers that were specifically designed to be bi-wired provided better sound, I've found that using both pairs of speaker output terminals at the back of amplifiers actually degrade sound perfomance. That's interesting. My legend Kantu 7 speakers are biwired and when I was running them with a Marantz PM11-S2 integrated I ran the speakers as you prefer, one pair of speaker outputs and then bi-wire at the speakers themselves. The Marantz has 2 sets of speaker terminals and for interest's sake one day I split the speaker cables at the amplifier end so i had 4 cables and utilised all 8 terminals, then selected outputs A & B preparing myself to notice nothing but was very surprised at how the sound improved especially in the width and depth of soundstage, everything appeared to open out. No DBT for sure but I don't care and ever since I've always used both sets of speaker output terminals if the amp i'm using has them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundreference Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) On 8/4/2017 at 6:15 PM, jeromelang said: Never the Twain shall meet.... Haha! While it is my experience that running 2 separate pairs of cables to speakers that were specifically designed to be bi-wired provided better sound, I've found that using both pairs of speaker output terminals at the back of amplifiers actually degrade sound perfomance. Sticking to only one pair of speaker output terminals from amplifiers often sounds better. There's less flattening of the soundstaging and imaging gel more coherently from top to bottom. is it obvious that super well known brands choose to put bad or non useful stuff into their builds just to make ill-informed buyers agree to purchase because those types of buyers exist in the industry and buy on sound un heard / seen products? Edited August 7, 2017 by soundreference removed un needed embellishment not condusive to discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.7d72dd3df0a30f6380bc8cf105ec861b.jpg)
Recommended Posts