I don't know how to put this so I'll just come out and say it.

I bought these.

I have read numerous claims in the past how everyone should replace the jumper bars with something like this but its like 10cm of metal.. There was a a little bit of mischief involved as I was actually priming myself to say "there, I tried them and there was no difference!" For the comparatively small outlay I thought it was a good experiment with cable that costs more than my actual speaker cables did to build (albeit a fraction of the length).

I was really not expecting to hear a difference much less an improvement.

😬

So the first CD I'm thinking there sounds like more bass. Not deeper necessarily but as if my amp had a bass control, which it doesn't, and it was turned up a notch or two.

Not convinced I tried another CD and another. For most of them, and some I know very well, the same result.

Confirmation bias? I'm happy to go with that. Even if I was prepared for there to be no difference. Still, I'm petulant enough to accept the explanation it is all in my head. But that still works.

 

Visit the forums you haven't been on for a few years and buy an amplifier....

I don't subscribe to notions of "fate", "karma" or any such spiritualistic forces so lets call it serendipity.

As may be obvious I am a Primare fanboy unashamedly. Having experienced the CD22, 32 and now 35 I'm welded on. The I32 amp has endured many other system upgrades and revealed the differences with ease. The only reason I would change it would be for the latest I35. I didn't feel I needed to but, well, its newer and is 35 instead of 32. That's 3 more...

The obvious issue is that new, these are over 6 large, and I really couldn't justify that considering the 32 was doing everything I needed it to. Then comes up a 4 year old example on Stereonet classifieds at a about half price. I know I shouldn't but I also knew if I didn't I would regret it forever.

So welcome to the system I35. And it all matches now.

Big shout out to member Zac_808 for the deal. Great comms, and dispatch and the amp is in pristine condition. Even included an isotek power cable in the deal.

And something I absolutely said I would never do..

 

And again with the cables.....

On 12/08/2024 at 6:02 PM, crisis said:

And something I absolutely said I would never do..

 

Lovely cables.

Not "cheap" but a rewarding performance for the spend.

I still have the odd one in my system after only recently making a change to all signal cables from TT to speakers.

2 minutes ago, Steever said:

Lovely cables.

Not "cheap" but a rewarding performance for the spend.

I still have the odd one in my system after only recently making a change to all signal cables from TT to speakers.

Indeed. I am/was a cable sceptic but after purchasing the Tellurium jumpers got quite a shock. The Nordost speaker cables were an irresponsible impulse buy when I saw then advertised on Facebook 25% off due to a new version being released. Partially because the jumpers seemed to work so well.

I never ever expected I would drop a grand on speaker cables…

 

 

Living Entertainment still have some at 25% off.

I might have also bought a pair of these, also 25% off…..

 

 

 

A bit of room treatment has gone a long way. I haven't measured and probably will however there are definitely subjective advantages.

I did a bit of faffing between diffusers and absorbers next to the speakers and found this was the best outcome. The soundstage has widened and there is no significant decrease in liveliness while the sound has also cleaned up. The least impact seems to have been from the bass traps although overall the bass in this system has increased significantly.

Its hard to determine exactly how this came about as Ive also upgraded cables during this whole process.

I am waiting for some carpet spikes and bolts to attach the GAIA III feet to the speakers. Again no real idea of what or how much difference these will make although they are certainly talked up.

I think there will be another two absorbers behind me and perhaps two on the ceiling until I'm done with that.

Having recently engaged time in room treatment considerations and then applying it to my room, it became obvious to me this can very easily change things. It's good to see your results are mostly positive.

 

TNG Spinner under-slung weight.

Not too difficult to set. Much easier than the outgoing Origin Live set up.

How does it sound? Silent. In my excitement to secure A set of Nordost Blue Heaven RCAs for my phono stage I sold the Aurealis cables and have not received the replacements..

This of course will make judging any improvements of the counterweight somewhat moot. Still, I think the under slung weights look pretty cool in a possibly unnecessarily, technical way. 🤘

 

https://tng-spinner.com/products-detail.php?id_pro=44&producto=STAINLESS STEEL UNDERSLUNG COUNTERWEIGHT

 

On 18/9/2024 at 6:11 PM, crisis said:

bass traps although overall the bass in this system has increased significantly.

Hi Phil

i have the Sound Acoustic Hybrid Panels behind my speakers, not the bass traps.  I fail to understand how those bass traps are traps with the reflecting plastic covering 80% of the panel.  But maybe that is what you are hearing more bass, instead of trapping it, they are dispersing it around the room.  My system, according to the measurements is lacking bass, maybe these bass traps will improve it a bit.

i am considering adding more, as I have read that you really need lots of diffusion on the front wall to be effective

On 18/9/2024 at 6:11 PM, crisis said:

carpet spikes

I have the GAIA spikes, and they are a PITA to move around, I would suggest keeping the speakers on the timber until you find the best position.  I noticed a definite improvement when I added the feet.  Also most would advise you to move the speakers out from the wall a little.  I have done this, it definitely improved definition, but I lost bass.

What you you put behind the Perspex, the white colour.  I am going to get some some album covers printed to put behind

2 hours ago, JkSpinner said:

Hi Phil

i have the Sound Acoustic Hybrid Panels behind my speakers, not the bass traps.  I fail to understand how those bass traps are traps with the reflecting plastic covering 80% of the panel.

 

What you you put behind the Perspex, the white colour.  I am going to get some some album covers printed to put behind

 

 

On the website it shows their experimentation and how the different types measured. I can only speculate that the waves are transferred though the edges and then trapped behind the perspex? Also as its round its not reflecting as a flat surface? I am not a physicist so I just try them. 😄

 

 

The white backing is white card I bought from Officeworks. Just to try to let them blend with the walls a bit. Albums would look cool.

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 20241 yr by crisis

The biggest build up of bass is at the tri-corner locations , ie 2 side walls + floor and 2 side walls + ceiling.  It is best if you cover both , the bits in-between, the wall only intersection doesn’t contribute nearly as much.   You could try separating the panels so one panel is at the ceiling and one on the floor. 
The performance of the Acoustic Sounds panel with and without the insert can be seen in the table on the website. 
Using dispersion on the front wall will improve the sense of depth, space and width of the recording.  Mine as an example, but it is not in the living room. 

So the last cable piece in place. I guess I am a Nordost fanboy now..

23 hours ago, frankn said:

The biggest build up of bass is at the tri-corner locations , ie 2 side walls + floor and 2 side walls + ceiling.  It is best if you cover both , the bits in-between, the wall only intersection doesn’t contribute nearly as much.   You could try separating the panels so one panel is at the ceiling and one on the floor. 
The performance of the Acoustic Sounds panel with and without the insert can be seen in the table on the website. 
Using dispersion on the front wall will improve the sense of depth, space and width of the recording.  Mine as an example, but it is not in the living room. 

Thanks for your post about your room acoustics setup @frankn. Looks great. I very nearly locked in the Linkwitz LX521 turnkey reference speakers as my next speakers, before going in a completely different direction. In the right room where they've got an even front wall and room to breath, they're amongst the best sound staging and imaging speakers in the world.

On 22/09/2024 at 10:54 AM, crisis said:

speculate

I was only speculating as well Crisis.  I am most likely going to buy some more Hybrid panels to place across the front wall, above the TV etc, and maybe the first reflection point.

2 hours ago, JkSpinner said:

I was only speculating as well Crisis.  I am most likely going to buy some more Hybrid panels to place across the front wall, above the TV etc, and maybe the first reflection point.

They are a pretty good value option if you compare to other types available.

So finally got the bolts and cups to install the ISO Gaia 3s....

I moved the speakers around, forward actually and the bass I was gloriously swimming in has disappeared. I mean bass is there but after the cable and sound treatment in the room that had changed my sound and almost made it sound like there was a sub, it has gone back to almost like it was before.. On the plus side there is an increase in clarity of detail that is quite noticeable but I always reckon when you remove something you will get a corresponding"improvement" in another area.

I am going to shift the speakers back a bit tomorrow and see what happens.

I was contemplating a sub before the last few weeks with the sudden increase in bass I got from the other tweaks and now wonder if I might have to . 🤦‍♂️

 

One thing about these ISO feet is I can believe how wobbly the speakers are now. The spikes don't really dig in. I guess three per foot is harder to weigh down than the normal one. All of my previous HIFI understanding was that speakers should be stable.

Edited September 25, 20241 yr by crisis

10 hours ago, crisis said:

bass I was gloriously swimming in has disappeared.

Hi Crisis.  I think I have the same issue.  I have had my system in the same place for years, and my belief and most of my mates (none of us audiophiles) all believe I was swimming in bass.  I made several changes at once (not recommended I know) new CDP, new analog interconnects, and the GAIA feet under my speakers.  Definite improvement in definition, clarity, the feeling of space or airiness in the sound, but I think that just maybe the bass was not as effective as before. Been moving my speakers around, cannot remember where they were before, but then I started with room treatment, so I took some measurements, and many commented on my lack of bass from the measurements.  Now you have me thinking, just maybe, the feet have something to do with it.  Shame it is such a pain to change them.  And now I like to measure for each change I make, just to compare the perceived difference vs the measured difference.  (Not that I understand the graphs to much). But now I am thinking?

1 hour ago, JkSpinner said:

Hi Crisis.  I think I have the same issue.  I have had my system in the same place for years, and my belief and most of my mates (none of us audiophiles) all believe I was swimming in bass.  I made several changes at once (not recommended I know) new CDP, new analog interconnects, and the GAIA feet under my speakers.  Definite improvement in definition, clarity, the feeling of space or airiness in the sound, but I think that just maybe the bass was not as effective as before. Been moving my speakers around, cannot remember where they were before, but then I started with room treatment, so I took some measurements, and many commented on my lack of bass from the measurements.  Now you have me thinking, just maybe, the feet have something to do with it.  Shame it is such a pain to change them.  And now I like to measure for each change I make, just to compare the perceived difference vs the measured difference.  (Not that I understand the graphs to much). But now I am thinking?

Yeah. I will move my speakers back a bit and if no good will remove the wobbly feet. From my years of reading and non technical experience Ive always believed that speakers need to be rock solid. Reasoning was that if the cabinets move then some of the energy is taken from the movement of the drivers. Therefore Ive always been skeptical about speaker isolation products that allow the cabinets to move, even a little, Still I was also a cable skeptic.. 😁

2 hours ago, crisis said:

speaker isolation

If I get a chance on the weekend, I will do a measurement with the feet, then remove the feet and see if there is a difference.  I have no technical understanding of how they work, just listening to the demos with headphones, there was a clear difference.

strange thing is they were originally recommended to me when I was trialling my speakers in the tiled open plan family room, it was suggested they could improve the bass.

5 hours ago, JkSpinner said:

If I get a chance on the weekend, I will do a measurement with the feet, then remove the feet and see if there is a difference.  I have no technical understanding of how they work, just listening to the demos with headphones, there was a clear difference.

strange thing is they were originally recommended to me when I was trialling my speakers in the tiled open plan family room, it was suggested they could improve the bass.

Im going to get hold of one of those measuring mike set us too. 👌

On 18/9/2024 at 6:11 PM, crisis said:

bass traps although overall the bass in this system has increased significantly.

So yesterday, I moved my Hybrid panels to the corner, and took some measurements before and after.  I am no expert in reading these charts, but it looks to me that my bass response has increased.   The top line in each graph represents the Hybrid Panels on the front corners, both left and right has increased.  In fact the entire spectrum has increased slightly.  I do not have a bass problem, in fact according to the measurements, my system is lacking in bass.  So my guess is this type of diffusion reflection will improve my bass response.  

IMO you do have a bass reinforcement around 78hz , this is about 6db which is pretty loud.
Bass are the frequencies from approx 200-60hz and below that is generally referred to as sub-bass. 
You have a cancellation around 302hz. 
You have a cancellation around 55hz (and a multiple at 110hz).
sub-bass (<50hz) is down a few db. 
1st priority is to sort out the mode/reinforcement around 78hz - I’m gardening but this will likely relate to some distance measurement. 
Trying to do anything to frequencies <50hz is difficult due to the long wavelengths involved. Passive Sub-bass treatment has to be very thick and very large.  
Sub-bass in music is usually associated with electronic music/synthesisers or large organ based music scores.  

Edited September 29, 20241 yr by frankn
Clarity

New speaker day!!

And it was. Useless StarTrack split the speakers and delivered one.  If you've ever tried to actually phone this abomination of an excuse for a company Ill see you in the next counseling session.

Despite their uselessness they manged to deliver the second one thus completing the set and creating magical stereo.

So for the good news I bought these MA Silver 300 7Gs at a reasonable discount as demos. More of the same? Yeah maybe. Ive basically upgraded all of the originals system from Primare to Primare and Monitor Audio to Monitor Audio. Still, as Ive said this gear gave me the sound I wanted. So why change? c'mon...

That said the speakers hung in and revealed every other upgrade. I really would have sat on the Silver 8s, although I did try to flog them to try to take advantage of run out Golds but I needed to realize a probably optimistic return to fund the changeover. In the end the 300 7Gs came up for a good deal. The Silver 8s will be relegated to my HT room to replace some well used but still stunningly acceptable Energy 2 ways Ive had for over 15 years.

So I really have to stop buying gear. And I nearly have. Except for the Sub I have coming... 😶

Lovely looking setup, interested to read a report on any sound differences. 
 

Did you perchance ever work as a lighthouseman?