Demondes Posted August 7, 2016 Posted August 7, 2016 I am not an expert on the techincal aspects but would make the observation that firewire is a legacy technology where usb has moved on from usb2 to usb3 and usb-c I guess thunderbolt is the successor to firewire but adds so much extra cost to storage drives etc that i would choose a ethernet nas over a thunderbolt DAS 1
Addicted to music Posted August 7, 2016 Posted August 7, 2016 Apple FireWire is far too expensive to even consider and very limited support. At least USB is well supported that's right across the board and with USB 3.0 it's excellent in transfer leaves 2.0 for dead. Still unsure why most high end audio manufacturers haven't taken advantage of USB 3.0, or the latest USB-c
Jventer Posted August 7, 2016 Posted August 7, 2016 I have personal experience on more than one computer on how bad usb ports can be. Firewire does not suffer those issues. Firewire is mainly Apple computer based. Mytek and Weiss are 2 brands that utilises firewire. May be more expensive, but you don't need usb/spdif converters etc to clean up. Not as widely used as usb so support is not as widely available. Also good to connect external hard drives. Would suggest that Thunderbolt is the newer technology.
Misternavi Posted August 8, 2016 Posted August 8, 2016 even MAC users have moved on from standard firewire. i still use firewire 800 for my camera but would prefer uSB as the plastic connector for FW800 is crap and always comes out. yes it's better than USB2 but with usb3 and thunderpants the new faster connections it will be phased out. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
qwerter Posted August 8, 2016 Author Posted August 8, 2016 The reason I asked is I I want to try firewire in my Mytek Manhattan.
Jventer Posted August 8, 2016 Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) How much is it going to cost to get firewire in your PC Edited August 8, 2016 by Jventer
qwerter Posted August 8, 2016 Author Posted August 8, 2016 How much is it going to cost to get firewire in your PCNot much, I was just wondering if it is worth trying...Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Jventer Posted August 8, 2016 Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) Read John over at Digital Audio's review of the cheaper DSD 192 Dac. Sounds a lot cheaper to try Firewire rather than a usb / spdif converter. On Computeraudiophile there are 8 pages on Manhattan that says nothing. Lots and lots of pages on 192 DSD pages that I have not read. Edited August 8, 2016 by Jventer
Demondes Posted August 8, 2016 Posted August 8, 2016 The reason I asked is I I want to try firewire in my Mytek Manhattan. Ahh in that case it maybe worth trying as your extra investment should be low. What source are you using to feed the Mytek? Do you need to buy one? If you have a pc you could purchase a PCi-Express card with firewire out for about 30-50 bucks. Or if you already have an older mac mini etc it would already have a firewire output. 1
davewantsmoore Posted August 8, 2016 Posted August 8, 2016 Not much, I was just wondering if it is worth trying... Yes. definitely. Firewire avoids some issues inherent to USB, and so has the opportunity to provide better audio quality. Whether this happens for a certain DAC depends on its specific design .... so we can't generalise too much. Not every petrol car is faster than every diesel car 1
qwerter Posted August 9, 2016 Author Posted August 9, 2016 Have everything ready. Will try it out tonight.
qwerter Posted August 9, 2016 Author Posted August 9, 2016 Trying it now, but it seems that it can't go over 192K. Has anyone tried playing DSD files over firewire?
qwerter Posted August 9, 2016 Author Posted August 9, 2016 Played with it for about an hour and definitely prefer SOtM tX-USBexp USB Card with sCLK-48.0 board , Curious USB - Intona-Curious 200mm link combination.
davewantsmoore Posted August 9, 2016 Posted August 9, 2016 Has anyone tried playing DSD files over firewire? Manufacturer dependant.
davewantsmoore Posted August 9, 2016 Posted August 9, 2016 Played with it for about an hour and definitely prefer SOtM tX-USBexp USB Card with sCLK-48.0 board , Curious USB - Intona-Curious 200mm link combination. Interesting. http://www.audiostream.com/comment/508166#comment-508166 .... also offer firewire drivers (possible on thunderbolt computers too) and are consistently reminded by the customers about sonic superiority of the firewire streaming interface over USB. USB is a packet interface often interrupted by other devices such as mouse, keyboard , hard drives or camera..... Regards, Michal at Mytek
Primare Knob Posted August 9, 2016 Posted August 9, 2016 Interesting. http://www.audiostream.com/comment/508166#comment-508166 I believe the PCI usb cards bypass the internal USB chip using their own drivers. They might even communicate directly with the CPU. You can also assign higher priorities to the card to avoid any interrupts. Not sure if there is a difference between how they transfer data. You mentioned you are using fire wire which is making use of a large buffer.
qwerter Posted August 9, 2016 Author Posted August 9, 2016 Interesting. http://www.audiostream.com/comment/508166#comment-508166 Do you use firewire?
qwerter Posted August 9, 2016 Author Posted August 9, 2016 Manufacturer dependant. For some reason I am 192K limited on Manhatten.
kukynas Posted August 9, 2016 Posted August 9, 2016 I think it goes down to the point mentioned by Dave in music server thread, if the DAC part is done properly it shouldn't matter what will be the source quality, on the other hand we've also seen that properly implemented front end might help to get best out of your DAC especially for those branded where reclocking and isolation might not be up to level of current DIY solutions In case of mytek, reclock is done by DAC master clock in async mode which can't cope with source affected by jitter and noise and that's common for majority of current ESS sabre DAC implementations...
qwerter Posted August 9, 2016 Author Posted August 9, 2016 Funny enough, I thing I am leaning towards FireWire now.
davewantsmoore Posted August 9, 2016 Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) I believe the PCI usb cards bypass the internal USB chip using their own drivers. Whether or not the mytek needs a driver or not, depends on if you use it in USB1 or USB2 mode ..... not necessarily which USB port you use on your computer (Eg. built in, or on a PCI card) making use of a large buffer. The "buffer" is in the DAC. Do you use firewire? Yes, my computer connects to the DAC with firewire.... but I've used many connection types / hardware over time. A good result can be reached with all connection types, however they all have inherently different issues when you get into the detail. I think it goes down to the point mentioned by Dave in music server thread, if the DAC part is done properly it shouldn't matter what will be the source quality "Properly" is perhaps too strong a word .... as it implies that if a DAC where to depend on the source quality an inference of "low performance". This isn't always the case. It could have excellent performance .... it simply involves a different set of issues. A DAC which receives data from the source into a big buffer and then independently clocks it out in a way which is very disconnected from the source, isn't as easy as it sounds. There basically needs to be a "computer" inside the DAC. Indeed, this is the logic behind a "dual PC" setup, which you would have seen by eg. jplay. So in effect. You could say a DAC like this is a "dual PC" setup. In my case the two computers are connected with firewire. The second computer is in the same box as the DAC. That computer doesn't run an "operating system" or "software" .... it's custom hardware which doesn't do anything but stream audio. (More info here on what my converter uses: http://www.tctechnologies.tc/index.php/products/dice3 ) Edited August 9, 2016 by davewantsmoore 1
qwerter Posted August 9, 2016 Author Posted August 9, 2016 Whether or not the mytek needs a driver or not, depends on if you use it in USB1 or USB2 mode ..... not necessarily which USB port you use on your computer (Eg. built in, or on a PCI card) The "buffer" is in the DAC. Yes, my computer connects to the DAC with firewire.... but I've used many connection types / hardware over time. A good result can be reached with all connection types, however they all have inherently different issues when you get into the detail. "Properly" is perhaps too strong a word .... as it implies that if a DAC where to depend on the source quality an inference of "low performance". This isn't always the case. It could have excellent performance .... it simply involves a different set of issues. A DAC which receives data from the source into a big buffer and then independently clocks it out in a way which is very disconnected from the source, isn't as easy as it sounds. There basically needs to be a "computer" inside the DAC. Indeed, this is the logic behind a "dual PC" setup, which you would have seen by eg. jplay. So in effect. You could say a DAC like this is a "dual PC" setup. In my case the two computers are connected with firewire. The second computer is in the same box as the DAC. That computer doesn't run an "operating system" or "software" .... it's custom hardware which doesn't do anything but stream audio. (More info here on what my converter uses: http://www.tctechnologies.tc/index.php/products/dice3 ) Link doesn't work.
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