Grimmie in Wonderland

Edit: Saturday 6th of May 2011

Don’t know what the protocol is for picking up on an old thread like this and giving it a stir-up. Maybe I should have started a new thread, but at the end of the day I’m still on the same journey here so for those unwilling to trawl through old news, please start at post No. 148

Grimmie In Wonderland.

Part 1.- W(ait) A(while)

Every once in a blue moon, if your lucky, you find yourself in the right place at the right time, and all the things that you’ve hoped for come together in circumstances that far exceed your expectations. So much so in fact that you start feeling the need to double check when crossing the road, just in case reverse Karma decides that your usual dumb luck has to come back around sooner than you’d like.

That right place was Melbourne, an absolute Aladdin’s cave of Hi-Fi components, and I had arranged two full days of Super System searching. The focus of that search eventually centred on the one place I almost dismissed at first as way beyond consideration. During one of my many pre-trip e-mails, one of the sages that I consulted ‘over there’ made a wise comment, “if you buy only what you can afford, you never have good stuff”. Simply put, but a truism nevertheless. Sometimes, if it’s important enough TO YOU and doesn’t harm others, what the hell - go for it. For some it’s a jet ski or fishing boat, for others a sports car or golf membership to Royal Perth, for me, cometh the hour, cometh the Hi- Fi.

My post on here for Super Systems was received with huge apathy in the replies column, “how embarrassment”,(thanks heaps guys) but what the hell. I did find that clarifying my thoughts in print (so to speak,) was a huge help in planning my trip and in assessing the components, and got some great PM’s and offers to help me out.

Not that it all went to plan though. I did previously get into Vince Ross, Audio in Perth to hear No.1 on my list the sensational Martin Logan, Vantage. Hybrid electrostatics. Some may not like the panel look, but I think they are slim elegant and just fantastic. Instead of the Bel Canto source and amplification that I wanted to borrow from Pat at WAR Audio (not available) it was instead teamed-up with the Pathos Logos Hybrid amp and Audio Analogue CDP. (System total cost approx $20,000 and rather too high) The sound was awe inspiring to my ears, especially the soundstage which filled the far end of the room with a clarity and precision that I’d never heard before. Over two listening sessions, (extended lunch hours) I played my usual test tracks First, Cinematic Orchestra with Roots Manuva, ‘All things to all men’. Now as much as I hate 99% of rap, there is always cream at the top of any genre of music and this track has to be very close to Number One in this. The emotion to be heard in his voice as he speaks of the futility of his life – “Who’s the hardest, who’s the hardest,”- is almost tear-jerking, and never more so than on this wonderful system. NOT perfect though. The difficulty of integration between electrostatic panel and cone bass driver is quite obvious, though not necessarily terminal and Andrew the demonstrator seemed to make the mistake of trying to cover one flaw of the speaker, slightly inadequate bass, by exaggerating another as the dip between deep and mid bass was made worse than it need be. The rising base notes of this tune which on a perfectly controlled bass speaker would be even and equal were not. They started deep and very loud produced by separately amplified drivers at full volume, but faltered and faded as they rose, into the ribbon section. That aside, from there the sound was just ace! Clear and smooth (I wonder if it would be more powerful with the Bel Canto Ref 1000 that I had wanted) and so enveloping. Almost like headphones but free, liberated from source. Even more impressive was Chemical Brothers ‘The Sunshine Underground’. What a test for any system, it has all the bells and whistles, plus a couple of kitchen sinks, a huge panorama of sound, electric and electronic with muttered vocals and miniscule tinkelling shot through it. Nothing projected the massive framework of this sound like the MLV’s before or since. I even had to play it again on my second visit just to check that I hadn’t blown up the impression of it in my mind, I hadn’t. The feeling of incredulity and exhilaration at the end of the track was quite amazing. One other nagging doubt remains in my mind, not always can we play music up to the volume we would like, sometimes we must, or we want to play softer, for any number of reasons. When the volume of this system was lowered by Andrew to talk about something the soundstage collapsed, although still adequately audible, everything had contracted like a hibernating bear. A little disconcerting and I didn’t get the chance to check it out more. Still an enormously satisfying audition.

Next out of the gate came the Focal Electra be 1027. A beautifully finished speaker and with huge raps (hype?) for the tweeter. Again not quite what I had planned. I had to be content with the Cambridge Audio Azur 840C and 840A (system cost14 to 15k) Integrated instead of 840E & W power / pre which are still not in the shops yet. Honestly, I couldn’t get excited about this lot at all. Although less expensive than the MLV etc it was terribly average, I couldn’t even hear much, if any improvement on my existing system at home. I got the amps swapped to Musical Fids A5 CDP and Integrated (at 17k) but though beefier, not a huge improvement, rather underwhelming. I couldn’t comment on the tweeter as the presentation was not of quality to judge individual elements. Ho-hum. I since wonder whether it was a simple case of the speakers not being run in properly as I had expected so much more. You have to judge on what you hear though.

One system auditioned but not on the list was B&W 803D with NAD Master Series M55 and M3 Dig Disc Player / Dual Mono Amp.(18.5k) This was one of the first hi-end systems that I got to audition at Surround Sound, in Nedlands, and remains among the best. If you want a feeling of huge power and drive like being pushed along in a wheelbarrow by a 10 foot giant, this your Goliath. Fantastic sound-staging and bass! - forget prunes, this is the way to loosen blocked bowels. At the time I hadn’t tried too much else to compare, but still look back on that test as a very good one, only doubts, perhaps the tweeter doesn’t have the smoothest flow and a little condensed in the mid but only if you really search for these things, and compare to the M.L.V’s. The music as a whole sounded terrific, both my test tunes and a Cirque Du Soleil drum track were just great.

I had been in every Hi-Fi shop in Perth and seen many disparate component elements and occasionally a good system or two but I knew there was more to it than this. Stereonet had alerted me to the possibilities over in Melbourne and I had to experience all that I kept reading about. Especially the high end speakers manufactured as almost cottage industry type endeavours. So I made contacts and arranged auditions, added to and culled from the list, (how was I to know that Mildura wasn’t a suburb of Melbourne it’s still in the tiny state of Victoria innit – sorry EKA Sound)

Edited May 8, 201114 yr by Grimmie

2.- I ‘Kneed’ a Super Stereo.

So all the planning had been done and tickets booked for the trek over the Nullarbor,- but how do you plan for a torn knee cartilage the day before you leave. Although not a new injury I’d always been able to ‘pop’ it back out when it got stuck, but not this time. Five hours in Joondalup hospital and the manipulation of an Orthopaedic surgeon couldn’t do the trick either. So, on crutches and in some considerable pain, what to do? The following day, although still no better I thought, bugger it, this is not going to stop me. I’d had very kind offers of lifts to most of the places I had to go to in Melbourne and taxis would do the rest, so there wouldn’t be any considerable walking, or hopping to do, so off I went.

Qantas is a great airline (they say) but their flight attendants are well known for their ‘rugby in the aisles’ style of attending, hence twice during my red-eye flight whilst drifting off to sleep and slumping a little to far into the gap a swift hip into the shoulder put me rudely, literally, back in my place. A swift curse in their direction, and muttered apology later and I’m dreaming again of perfect music through the perfect system, when whack! I discovered to my cost that I had allowed my sore leg to drift also, - into THEIR territory. More ‘well you deserve it’ kind of apologies and the electric shocks slowly dieing away, then an hours sleep before disembarking, and - Behold Lazarus! – The kick had popped my knee back, although still tender I could walk again!

True to his word, Warwick Fremantle from Pure Music Group made the considerable sacrifice of coming out to the airport at six in the morn to take me back into the city for little more than a earnest discussion over breakfast at Greasy Joe’s, and a cheery ‘see you later’ then I’m off to stop #1, Carlton Audio. From the systems list you can see that at number six is;

Legend Acoustic, Kumbar Wirri. “Big Redâ€. (+ CDT 17.5K)

I was still a little too early at 8:40, Brett had kindly agreed to get into work an hour earlier than normal so that I wouldn’t be waiting around till their normal opening at ten and he duly arrived with small doggie in tow who apparently thinks he’s the boss of the place, and probably is right. Once in I couldn’t wait to get to it and play my folder of audition discs through one of the most anticipated of the local (Australian) products. The Big Reds are a strange amalgam of units together having the appearance of a headless black-gowned woman with flaring dress. Then again I had just gone all night with very little sleep, and the mild salmonella poisoning from the greasy breakfast maybe left me hallucinogenic. They are well finished and impressive looking and I knew that the technology incorporated in them via the DEQX is a great accomplishment. That side of it was all read-up on and done with via the internet, all I was here for was the sound. The venerable Dr Rod Crawford inventor of the Reds had been across in recent days to install some new amp units along with other goodies which I assumed would improve even more the much lauded sound, and I had not heard any active speakers before. Also on their side was the Cyrus X transport. From the first strains of the Cinematic O’s though I felt a little uneasy, I had expected a sound to match at least those I’d heard in the best systems in Perth, but not this. Perhaps it was the early hour and also a reluctance to disturb the morning but I found that I couldn’t judge the volume and was unable to get a sufficient sense of authority and weight. Turning up the volume didn’t cut it, only increasing the clamour that seemed to scramble out. Thinking back I’m sure that a lot of it was due to our doing too much too soon, not giving the amp ten or even twenty minutes to warm-up, and also the room being so huge and low, we were in the middle, with wooden floors and the door directly behind me which was left open to the outside and seemed to spoil the ambience of the room, all combined to ruin my chance to hear the speakers at their best. They did get much better after a few tracks, especially when the door was briefly shut, but unfortunately my first impression outlasted my patience and I had spotted amongst the mountains of speakers (I’ve never seen such a huge amount of top quality stock,) a pair of Ambience Reference 1800 Ribbon speakers, (10K) - also on my list.

When I mentioned to Brett that I fancied a try-out he was only too keen to oblige, but even as I watched him manoeuvre them into position I was mentally crossing them off the list again. They are huge, making the Martin Logans look like svelte track runners compared to East German shot putters. Definitely not ugly, but just like the similarly big wide and flat Quad 989’s just too screening for the small to mid areas, almost forming a false wall to the furthest quarter of your room. He hooked them up to a M.F. KW500 Integrated (too Expensive)and YBA CDP,just how the system matching went there I’m not too sure, as the Ambience has a sensitivity well into the ninety’s and the KW rated at Muja power station levels. They say that you can’t have too much power right? but I can’t imagine anyone ever turning the dial up over 9-o-clock. Also although I didn’t get around to the big question the combined cost would have been well above my limit as both the MF and Ambience each are around 10K. That said, their combined sound was magnificent. From cold, with all the disadvantages previously described they filled the area with sound, approaching the way that the M.L.’s did in Perth. And although I had eliminated them already, they definitely had a terrific sound and beautiful finish (probably better than the Logans) which would be perfect in any larger room.

So Carlton’s did me a huge service in that they showed me the strengths and weaknesses of two of my most fancied components albeit in a mostly negative way. It did still leave me wondering at just how much better the Big Bad Reds could have been, or the Ambience with less expensive but better suited (valves anyone ?) electronics.

Two last impressions of Carlton Audio Visual, I briefly met Rod the proprietor while waiting for Brett and what a great bloke, very down to earth, no airs and graces obviously hands-on and enthusiastic. Then, the stock levels, I know that some would say over-stocking of expensive equipment can be a business killer, but what a great asset to anyone searching for a system. Unfortunately not enough room to display it all and no-where near enough for decent demo’s downstairs, but really impressive nonetheless. If only I’d had more time to really make a nuisance of myself.

So hobbling out into the daylight and off for a taxi ride around the corner a bit to Caxton Audio, or Sound Reference Melbourne. The place is not the easiest to find, just a door onto the street and a bell press. Young Damien met me at the door as arranged and led me upstairs to a long row of demonstration rooms. After briefly viewing the entry level Quad and Jas gear, we walked through the back to where the higher-end equipment was. First appraised was something I was quite keen to hear, a bone fide valve amp, the Jas 2.4 fully integrated. What a huge momma that is, like a large dinner tray stacked with all manner of food and condiments complete with finely turned handles at each end. (Quite a nice touch.) Many of the Stereonet die-hards have an unshakable love of valves, and I was eager to hear my first ever pure valve amp.

This time the system was ready, warmed up and broken-in. The Jas Oscar floor-standers were soon replaced with top of the range Jas Odin (the range all have very similar names so if you know I must have it wrong, fill in the blanks.)and fed by the Naim CD5I CDP. These were nice components and formed an extremely competent enjoyable system. Everything was as it should be and I can’t find a real fault in any part of the sound or appearance. I strained my ears to hear the “valve sound†that I thought would be so distinctive, and maybe it was smooth(er?) and rich(er?) than usual amps like the MF’s and Cambridges even Primare which is a milder sound for solid state, but not too sure yet. As the store is in the middle of a sale I could have had the system for $15to 16k which was around my budget limit. Trouble was the system didn’t compare to the Logans, yes, I know that your sick of hearing Martin Logan, especially as the system is four grand more, but it’s become my benchmark sound and not something I can forego if I’m going to do this. So basically the Jas fell just short of my requirements. Also in stock were the Quad panels both full range and hybrid, but they are just not attractive enough to warrant all that dosh. I know with fantastic sound you can close your eyes to the speakers, but no they’ve got to look the part too.

So big thanks to Damien, a charming and softly spoken young gentleman, most helpful, with an amusingly superior (though not affected or off-putting) demeanour.

3.- Through the looking Glass.

From there it was off to Warrandyte, way-out East, to the place that I had written off a few days earlier as being obviously outside of my budget, SGR Audio, makers of the famous Octagon. Now shelling out fifty bucks taxi fare to go to a place which you know had looked way too expensive fills you with a sense of foolishness and dread at the wasted time your about to indulge in. As there are so many other, more realistic systems to be trying, for instance what if I’d taken the time to try the Moon Audio amps with the Ambience 1800 slim-style ribbon I’d seen, now that could have been……Eventually we pull-up at a beautiful house in the hills by Donvale, the home of Harry, Ann and Stuart who collectively are SGR Audio. Also in attendance is Warwick Freemantle (anyone from this side will tell you he spells his name wrong) my old acquaintance from this morning. At this point I’ll thank W.F. for persuading me to make the trek out to the edge of the Laughing Waters Park to try-out the wonderful equipment there. I’d seen how Norpus and others from the forum had obtained their equipment from there, and how thrilled they were and at what cost!!! gulp, so knew I was in for a sonic treat if not a financial one.

Straight away I was put at my ease by Harry, he assured me that I wasn’t there on a fools errand and that at the budgets I’d hinted at on my posting, they would indeed have several systems for me to try which I could definitely afford. That was just what I needed to hear and after some excellent sandwiches prepared by the delightful Ann I was ready to get to it. Not so fast Grimmie boy. Harry is the sort who does NOTHING half cocked, and an in-depth discussion of all things SGR with detailed descriptions of their design philosophy, and also a thorough grilling of what exactly I wanted from my HI-Fi system followed. Harry has a way of piercing your forehead with his earnest gaze as he speaks, slowly and evenly. Interject at your peril, and make sure it’s worth saying or be turned to a pillar of salt for your troubles. Warwick must know this and only spoke to inform me of the superb valve equipment he had to offer and of his company’s association with SGR and how it came about. Stuart on the other hand said nothing. Harry relayed to me of Stuarts quiet genius, and how many world leading electronics and computer programming companies beat a path to his door for help. Also how he is the amplifier creator for the active versions of their speakers. Obviously not one to waste brain power forming words or maybe preferring to leave it all to dad, at this stage at least, Stuart quietly took it all in.

Then to the systems. As we had walked through from the front door to the kitchen I had seen the many pairs of speakers either in a state of readiness for reviewing or simply held in storage or stripped down or in the process of being built up, a mind boggling exhibition that truly staggered me. First-up for my benefit was a system comprising a couple of large but quite conventional looking towerfloor-standers dressed in immaculate silver duco. They looked simply striking with all black drivers, 3-way with ribbon tweeter and midrange plus double 200mm bass units. Partnered up to Warwicks Melody SP9 and strangely a JVC 5-disc CDP. The point of the JVC I’m not too sure, probably no other CDP available at the time as they had four systems rigged up, but if I was a little snooty at being subjected to such common fare then I had my pretension shoved right where it fitted best as soon as the first notes of (The Great) Eric Clapton and My Fathers Eyes struck up. The jaw dropping analogy is a well worn one, half the reviews of Hi-Fi EQ have used it over the years, well guess what folks I now know EXACTLY what they meant. My jaw would have dropped off had it not been for the astonished grin holding it on. This was amazing sound, - not only terrific width and height to be seen before me but also the presentation went right back to the window behind in an awesome display of sound. If you think these words should properly describe visions rather than noise then your right, the sounds appeared before me like visions such was the clarity and imaging. I tried to compare it to the sensation I had experienced in Vince Ross’ with the Martin Logans but couldn’t do anything other than clear my mind of all such logic and let track 2 River of Tears wash across my soul. I swear I’m having again the goose bumps on my arms and neck that I experienced during that song, and it was all I could do not to wipe at my eyes, but hid the embarrassment by blinking them hard and hoping they would dry on their own. WOW. From there I went into my folder and played my two test tracks with stunning success, then Lamb, ‘Little Aliens’, Fairport Convention ‘Who Knows Where The Wind Blows’, anything and everything I could fish up, all superb. Once I got a little of my senses back I thought perhaps, a wallowing in the bass a touch slow, I almost felt treacherous thinking it after being treated so wonderfully well (by the system, not my hosts) and we’re talking degrees of small magnitude here.

That emotional response to the music that I just referred to is what I have been searching for from day one many years ago, and there it was, in all its glory, unfortunately whilst in company, but I’m sure that Harry et all didn’t resent me a girlie moment.

All good things come to an end though and there were other, equally as exciting prospects ahead. Next up was the fully active version of the same type but in a luxurious metallic blood red, (Eric the Reds as some wag had apparently christened them) truly gorgeous looking. Of course the shock value wasn’t here with these this time, the sound was equally superb though, maybe not the emotional content, perhaps I was being too analytical now and couldn’t just let go as I had, but the fantastic staging and clarity were there OK and this time no floppiness in the bass at all, tight and rhythmic and full, just excellent. One small thing that kind of put a fly in the ointment was that Stuart then augmented the base with one of his incredible Octagon sealed sub-woofers. These things are an amazing sight unlike any subbie I’ve ever seen, but in operation they simply disappear into the music. Not only do they deepen the base though, with it also comes a more open sound right into the mid which was restrained to the point of delicacy, delicate sub-bass, a novel concept. But, my opinion of sub-woofers is that I dislike them, don’t believe in them except as add-ons to stand mounters that can’t handle lower register so why bother with an over priced piece of wood / metal to support only half a speaker. Sorry stand mounter owners, we all prefer our own preference, as they say. Subbies just seem a bit of a pointless exercise to me, (except perhaps with HT) surely a loudspeaker of this size can provide adequate bass without supplementation, and to me they did before they were supplemented with the………. supplementation, if you get my drift. So things were getting awkward!

Anyhow, - Then came the bombshell.

Stuart swapped over from the Reds to the Octagons as we were speaking and the sky seemed to open, the ground fell away and everything on the planet changed. These were the active Octagons with the Scanspeak Revelator tweeter in the big, weird, wonderful and devilishly beautiful speakers that not only are beyond my budget but are also beyond the ability of my superannuation fund to purchase. So in that moment young Stuart showed his cruel streak as well as making a tactical error in crushing my favourable opinion of the poor Reds. These Darth Vader unmasked look-a-likes were simply astounding in their presentation of the music. Imagine every best attribute of every speaker mentioned so far, double its quality in every aspect, and there you would hear the active Octagons. I could hardly believe it, and no way are my literary talents adequate to describe it but suffice to say that the shock value of my first hearing the Silver Towers was renewed and I almost felt like weeping again, this time at the frustration of not being able to afford these magnificent black/green pearl beasts.

Norpus and John A are indeed lucky, lucky, men.

I realised at this point that these people were no fakes. Harry, Stuart, and Ann, plus Warwick are the real deal. Every model type that SGR trio produce is unique and original in its conception design, build and execution. The technology they utilise, the materials they build with, the drivers used and workmanship involved is just top class and cutting edge. At first I found it hard to believe that such a humble set of people, without any bulldust or waffle, could produce equipment that would make other manufacturers hang their heads in defeat, but the proof of this particular pudding is in the hearing. Of course, if you know Warwick then you also know he has a good line in chat but he has no need to ‘guild the Lilly’ as they say, after all it’s hard enough to believe in the truth of this without any embellishment. Don’t forget I didn’t know these people from Adam before that day, and had no idea of their set-up, but I know them now as people determined and TOTALLY dedicated, obsessed even with building the best loudspeakers that they could. If you get the impression that I’ve been brainwashed here, well, maybe you’re right, but only by the sound their amazing speakers make, not by the sound that their builders do.

Their Bass drivers in the octagons for example, they scoured the world for what they needed but came up short of their exacting standards every time. So what did they do? They built their own, from the ground up, from their imagination up, (in Australia!) and created an answer that was the only thing they could do that didn’t involve compromise. That word is anathema to them, it’s almost impossible to envision Harry the perfectionist invoking such a horror. Install two in the bass unit along with the dual PHL mids and the Revalator, the end result is The Octagon.

Still can’t afford it but!

Yes I know, I’m the one at the start who reckoned that you’ll never have good stuff if you don’t “go for itâ€,(puke) and who mentioned sports cars and jet ski’s etc etc.(hoik). Still a man’s gotta know his limitations and just when he’s fooling himself, the tag on the Octagons meant I didn’t need to make a fool of myself, that did it for me.

BUT, - the mighty Ralstons weren’t done with yet; I mentioned four systems, well -. Every production has to have Pre-production, prototypes that enable a design team to perfect their merchandise. So it was with the Octagons, a prototype as beautifully finished as all their speakers not compromised per se, just made a little differently. These do not have the double mammoth bass drivers, rather a single thirteen incher the best available, and a Raven R1 ribbon tweeter. These bizarrely gorgeous Octagons, driven this time by the Melody system I had mentioned to Warwick as being my dream valve set-up, (such as I knew from zero experience.) the 1688 pre & 2 x M88Q Mono-block pwr. The combination of all components gleaming piano black with blazing valves and domineering drivers is about as impressive a sight as can be imagined in a stereo set-up truly a work of industrial art, but what of the sound.

Well what did you expect? Just how many superlatives can a semi literate like me trawl up? Insert your own word really, as long as it equals or exceeds, -superb! The bass of course could not compete with the double header that is the Octagon 2 activated pair, (maybe also the influence of the valves) but the Focal Audiom at 13inch and fitted in Harry’s Sherman tank housing could never be a slouch, nor was it, despite my penchant for dance and bass heavy music, I still want it in proportion, and it was, coupled to the MTM section using Focal Audiom mids and Raven R1 ribbon Most of the attributes heard in the Octagon 2’s earlier (these prototypes, now christened Octagon 1’s) were there, but maybe not quite the authority, the sheer dominance of all the music played, without seeming to have the startling force of the 2’s. Perhaps it is the compromiser in me (I’m not Harry) but after a while listening I began to wonder if that may not be such a bad thing. The slightly mellower sound (again valves perhaps) and easier overall ambience and again mere degrees here, could be a seductive quality over time.

Obviously by now my head was positively spinning, as I stood surrounded by these terrific systems, all of which Harry promised to keep within cooee of my by now upwardly creeping budget, I realised that “Grimmie in Wonderland†here was facing an awful choice, - WHICH ONE!

But wait, there’s more!

The joker was then played by our poker faced pair, which maybe trumped the lot. A new model don’t you love those words, now fully developed and ready for production, the new MT3A under construction, so not yet at a listenable stage was also chucked into the pot. This beauty, though not the Feastrex model, (apparently shown at some fair in China recently) which will be way beyond my wildest, , and which will be in a different league again apparently, is a trimmed and perfected Octagon off shoot and is due to be finished within weeks. When it is, it will be subjected to severely critical listening tests and no doubt fine tuned, then shipped of to some fortunate though no doubt patient, devil in South Australia.

After that it will be put into production as the perfected Active, 3-way, bass–mid–treble configured speaker. This model will not have the “Point Source†single driver but as close as an MT design can come. They will nonetheless surely be something to drool Labrador style rivers of slobber over. Here’s the best bit, if I shell-out not a kings ransom more, the M.T’s. will also be available to my quivering finances. The first in W.A.

Down sides; 1) I ain’t heard them.

2) Although a refined elegant and more compact model, I love the retro sci fi look of the 1’s & 2’s.

3) Now that the active cross-overs and amps have been retrieved from the cabinet to allow the slimmer styling, they have to go somewhere else.

A separate box of not inconsiderable size, standing alongside each now svelte speaker or located on a bookcase / shelf adjacent, (I’ve already mentioned my dislike of separate sub-woofer boxes,) was mentioned as a temporary solution. Preferable to me though one or two mono-block, crossover amp (pre-amp?) enclosures mounted in a rack as you would expect a standard amp to be This though unfortunately loses the uncluttered simplicity, and straightforward connection advantage of integrated active speakers, which then only need one cable to the (for example Bel Canto CD2 or Droplet CDP which have their own volume control.

Standing against those views are the indefatigable champions of the maiden M.T.’s, Harry and Stuart. If they say that this new speaker is going to sound better than all previous models (considerably so,) then there is no argument ’cos you know they will. These are very easy people to have faith in. Then the rest is personal taste.

Over the two - half days I spent at Châteaux Ralston I was continuously astounded by the talent and products of these amazing people, Ann Harry Stuart and Warwick have something special going on out in ‘them there hills’. Something to be immensely proud of and I’m pleased as punch that I’ve had the chance to observe, and soon share in their achievements. And so-what if it costs me an arm and a leg, just keep thinking jet-ski’s, sports cars, LEAR BLOODY JETS!

4.- Once More Into the Breach.

This time, reluctantly, tearing myself away from such a rich mother-lode of sound. I had made arrangements to audition a system that has a great reputation, the Aslan Minstral coupled to Shanling SCD T200C direct to SP80C mono-blocks. This time to the home of James Chen, of Soundlabs fame who had kindly agreed to allow me to audition these super smart speakers and valve equipped electronics, AJW even going to the trouble of sending them down in a hurry so that I wouldn’t miss out. The Shanlings again have that 50’s futurist look, but this time silver and chrome with blue haze lighting effects, strikingly attractive, and matching perfectly the brushed aluminium finish of the Minstrals. James was the perfect audio-host setting me up to play all my usual tracks and then some, but not fussing or rushing.

The system sounded fresh open and bold across a decent sound-stage. I do like ribbon tweeters and these threw the higher frequencies around the frame of sound very smoothly and with good focus. The bass notes had ample support, being produced in two separate ways at the same time. Firstly in passive fashion by a driver mounted in the centre section of the faceplate, and then below that, the sub-base through the very deepest notes, by an active ten inch driver fed by a plate amp on the back. In varying degrees it proved a very effective combination. Adjusting the amount of bass reinforcement was a cinch to do once given instruction by James, it was simple to increase the overall volume by using the volume control on the CDP, or increase the bass content by decreasing the volume of the power amps feeding the passive section of the speaker, (thus leaving the plate amp at the previous level.) The main body boasts a further 200mm passive bass driver, 50mm dome mid and dome tweeter all done through the remote control. This balance was crucial to the quality of sound, even James remarked as I played with the variables, (nudge, nudge) that I was over cooking it, leading to a gravvelly distortion. Music was easy to enjoy through the system and I played track after track without finding too much to fault. There was a definite lack of mid-vocal clarity especially fast sung female voice. Myrtle is a WA band featuring singer Nadia Nassif who possesses the most crystalline tone, simply beautiful. On ‘Watching Over Me’ though where she trills a song that is difficult to make-out the lyric on my present system at home, I could likewise barely tell a word she sang, whereas having had no such difficulty on other earlier reviewed equipment. There was also the slightest lack of separation between voices and instruments that didn’t help either. Nevertheless when you consider the price difference between the systems, this one being available at less than 14k perhaps the sonic disparity could be understood.

So another combination scrutinised, another host thanked enormously and on the road again toward the city, well, Abbotsford anyway, to a little place on the high Street - Focus sound and Vision. I had read on the internet that they sold ‘Cayin’ amps, specifically the H80A an amp that I had been interested in as a cheaper replacement for the Pathos Logos Hybrid integrated I had been so impressed with in Perth, with the Martin Logans. Unfortunately I had got a-hold of the wrong end of the stick again and they didn’t have it in yet, so contented myself with the lesser powered all valve model. I wasn’t too impressed with the system as it stood though and again didn’t have the time to wait for it to warm-up properly.

The reason for my haste was that one of my most looked forward to people was on his way to give me a lift to downtown Taylors Lakes, and Osborn Audio.

What a lift it was too, not content with a Holden Barina, our inimitable Greg Osborn resplendent in Golden hued Bentley Turbo showed up as promised, and saved me a heap in another taxi fare, not to mention allowed me the huge pleasure of being able to give back-handed regal waves to all the hoi-paloi as we glided past. At this point I’ve got to give heartfelt thanks, not only to Greg, but to all of the owners, managers and proprietors of the shops and businesses that I called at, for their kindness and consideration in all of my dealings with them. I had read on Stereonet of the warmth and enthusiasm of the Hi-Fi community in Melbourne and I can attest to that fact without reserve. Many times did people go out of their way to help me, way above and beyond their call of duty.

Once again a private dwelling stacked to the rafters with speakers and amps of various shapes and sizes, and Greg had prepared as my first treat a pair of Epitomes hooked to his valve Consonance M100 integrated amp, and R2.2 CDP (I think, sorry Greg if that’s wrong but there was quite a stack of gear there) These large beautifully finished speakers immediately impressed with their high and wide presentation, the different instruments each allotted their own space in the ether. Sadly I couldn’t easily check-out the imaging and focus of the soundstage due to the seating arrangement of the small room we were in, the two big leather chairs Greg and I occupied side by side meant that I was too far off the sweet-spot to ascertain. However the sound was full and smooth and well balanced over several of my tunes. Greg then added to the equation his adjacent bass units which he told me would add to the staging width and power as well as the bass depth and so they did. The Epitomes are quite a wide speaker so when this further width is added they take up a significant space - line abreast. Now maybe it’s just me but I just can’t ‘get’ add-on bass, the Epitomes to my ears had been a fine speaker up to this point. Quite well balanced through the frequencies, perhaps a little softness to the sound though, after all it did improve perceptibly when the B.U.’s were hooked up, but when Greg played a few of his tracks like the massive organ piece recorded in a cathedral in England ? and turned up the volume to the last flight of Concorde levels, I’m afraid I was completely lost to any sense of musicality. The bass overwhelmed everything else. To their credit the Epitomes hung in there, the mid and top end still had their say, but I was in pain! and could only just hang in too.

After a few demo tracks I asked Greg if I could have a listen to the speakers I had expressed an interest in during our e-mail correspondence, the ReferenceEclipseTower. Now here was a fine figure of a speaker, although very tall, they were slim and in proportion, none of the ‘fugliness’ I had read about in Stereonet, and although perhaps the addition of a wide base plinth would have improved the safety aspect with regard to tipping over, first impressions were good. They got better too once Greg had completed the Herculean task of carting speakers in and out of the limited room available (by trolley). Connected to the same amp and CDP these too had a good sense of scale and force, a very similar type of sound to the previous, though my bass judging ability was completely shot, I know that the overall impression was of a great sound. I’d been particularly interested in the Focal be tweeter having heard it in the JM Labs Electra 1027’s and although have since heard it is a different model to the 1027’s it still sounded sweet and pure to me. Greg mentioned that this pair was likely to be the last of the type made for some time as supplies of the necessary drivers have dried-up, a shame.

I still hadn’t heard the system that I had posted on the ‘Net’ which was the Droplet CDP the Cyber 800 or 845 with the Ref Eclipse (priced at around 16.5K) but as Greg and his good lady had a prior engagement, I could only have an all too brief listen to the Audio Aero CDP via the two amp mono block types into the Grand Monuments as they were all set-up and ready to go in the large room. And large it needed to be too, The Monuments are – Monumentally huge, again with bass to match I’m afraid they were out of the question for my humble abode, but enjoyable listening all the same, just not relevant to me, especially as the AA cost about 10grand + alone! A shame we had no longer to talk and demo, as I would have loved to get to know some finer details of drivers and build, but never mind.

Another very thoughtful offer of a lift, this time via the Jaguar to the Airport, thanks again Greg, and my jolly romp through AFL city was done.

I don’t suppose it should be too hard to guess which way my choice of system is going to go. Although there were many fantastic line-ups, each one capable of providing me with musical quality for as long as I have ears to appreciate it, I just can’t see past those awesome SGR speakers. My problem remains in choosing which arrangement, of the five or so systems, alternating between the Oct 1’s plus Melody pre / pwr, which I have now heard and enjoyed the sound immensely, or whether to give more power to the system with Bel Canto Ref 1000 mono blocks and CD2. I’ve listened these amps (or the M300) many times through WAR Audio’s Dianne speakers which are very similar to the MTM (with Raven R1 tweeter) section of the Oct 1’s and love the sound. Surely, at the end of the day though I would be a fool to pass-up on the opportunity of owning the new MT actives. They are such an exciting prospect and will, I know, be the best sound by far of all the systems that I’ve heard to date. Yes that’s a crazy way to go, after all that I have said and done to opt for a system that I’ve never even heard is bordering on stupid. Yet I have absolute faith that Harry, Ann and Stuart will deliver the goods…IN SPADES. The waiting would be agony though.

5.- Decisions, Decisions.

So here I am, over a week later and still in several minds, over the above choice. With too much time on my hands as I am laid up recovering from my knee operation, on one day I have been certain, that I should have the system available NOW that is the Octagon 1, with Bel Canto. That way I have no waiting, no responsibility to SGR, a deal less expense, great styling with no temporary clutter and a sound I’m familiar with and love. Then after a sleepless night I’m thinking of that emotional response I had to the silver towers with the simple Melody SP9 and JVC 5-disc! If that far less expensive equipment can set me off like that, presumably because of it’s valves, then surely the Oct 1 + Melody Pre/Pwr (and M10?) would have me in constant delirium.

The clincher in this debate has to be the conviction I have that S.H & A will come through with something that despite all of the above will be worth all downsides. For them to be so convinced that regardless of the fact they have achieved so much with all their previous gear, this is going to be way better again, and be a ground breaking, nay earthquake proportioned product, has me child-like in anticipation (and in impatient frustration.) Therefore the decision is made

SGR Audio MT3A active loudspeakers.

Bel Canto CD2.

Simple really.

Grimmie

Next time post them all in the same thread.

No need for so many individual threads.

Thanks for posting, Grimmie.

Just FYI (this thread was reported) - Grimmie told me that he could not post the whole thing because the character count exceeds the forum limit for a single post. I advised him to split the post into little chunks and post them seperately as follow-ups. Slight mix-up there, but it's all OK now.

Now I've got some reading ahead of me

Thanks for posting such a comprehensive report by the way.

The Osborn Eclipse Towers are a personal favourite of mine.

Well done Grimmie. I haven't read all of it yet, but I will. Very interesting and thorough.

Now back to reading. Tomorrow!!!

All right I have finally finished reading the thread. It is a fantastic read, I hung on to every word!

Now my own conclusion - I feel sorry for you

If I had money burning a hole in my pocket and had to choose between all the systems that you heard, I would be pretty hard pressed.

The SGR is a magnificent speaker no doubt and it will keep you happy for a long time, but all the other speakers are no slouches. What I like about the SGR sound is that it is a very universal kind of sound - so neutral, so flawless, so uncoloured. Some other speakers are a love em or hate em proposition but you can't say that about the SGR. There are many speakers that might do individual things better, but these often come with flaws elsewhere that make you wonder whether the sacrifice is worth it.

I am very impressed by your description of all the retailers whom you visited. It sounds as if you got outstanding service from everybody, even a free ride in a Bentley.

Congratulations on your choice and do report back when you finally get them Also - a thread like this is too good to be left in the general 2ch section - I have moved it to product reviews. Hope you don't mind.

Of course a great decision in going with SGR

Im not up with the model names...

Which one is the "SGR Audio MT3A active loudspeakers." ?

Yes thank you for a great read. I hope your knee is getting better. I dunno about your wallet tho!..it will never recover.

Like Drizt, I too have zero idea about the SGR model mentioned "SGR Audio MT3A active loudspeakers" and would love to hear/see some pics when you get it all together.

enjoy!

All right I have finally finished reading the thread. It is a fantastic read, I hung on to every word!

Now my own conclusion - I feel sorry for you

If I had money burning a hole in my pocket and had to choose between all the systems that you heard, I would be pretty hard pressed.

The SGR is a magnificent speaker no doubt and it will keep you happy for a long time, but all the other speakers are no slouches. What I like about the SGR sound is that it is a very universal kind of sound - so neutral, so flawless, so uncoloured. Some other speakers are a love em or hate em proposition but you can't say that about the SGR. There are many speakers that might do individual things better, but these often come with flaws elsewhere that make you wonder whether the sacrifice is worth it.

I am very impressed by your description of all the retailers whom you visited. It sounds as if you got outstanding service from everybody, even a free ride in a Bentley.

Congratulations on your choice and do report back when you finally get them Also - a thread like this is too good to be left in the general 2ch section - I have moved it to product reviews. Hope you don't mind.

Abolutely right Keith, the people over there were amazing, It's easy to be cynical and mention the money (which believe me is'nt burning a hole anywhere, especially the missuss' purse) but I don't think they were just after that. The enthusiasm for the sound and for the accurate reproduction came through all the time, their equipment was a means to that end.

The choosing was very tough, and never can you be sure of the right decision, the hardest thing now of course is going to be the wait, SGR being as they are, cannot deliver at the snap of fingers, as most can. Glad you enjoyed the write-up, thanks for the rasponse,

Grimmie.

Of course a great decision in going with SGR

Im not up with the model names...

Which one is the "SGR Audio MT3A active loudspeakers." ?

Hi Dritz, - Yeah SGR were a terrific group, as friendly, honest and straight-forward as you can imagine. The model is their newest one, it has the base (and bass) section, which is going to be universal in their range, with the double drivers mentioned. Then a seperate and totally isolated 'head' unit housing the mid-treble drivers on an acoustically seperate faceplate, all actively driven by Stuarts custom crossover/amp modules. It's the fastidious attention to detail that has so impressed me, nothing left to coincidence, it'll be right by design, not chance.

Grimmie

Without exaggeration that is the longest and one of the most enjoyable posts l have ever read on a forum. l too am interested in the new SGR's under development and it would have been a touch decision for sure.

Stuart and Harry seem very confident that the new MT section will be their best yet, do you know what drivers they are using?

Cheers Mondie

Of course a great decision in going with SGR

Im not up with the model names...

Which one is the "SGR Audio MT3A active loudspeakers." ?

Hi Dritz,

I did send a reply to this earlier but itl ooks as though it got lost in my incompetance file or maybe the moderators didn't like it, trouble is, I can't remember what I wrote now.

Anyhow, try again.

The SGR 'team' are a great bunch, and a joy to deal with, so I have no qualms trusting them to come through.

The MT3A will have what is going to be the twin driver 'universal' Base (and bass) section, common to several different combinations of base & head units. This one will be fully active, and have the mid/tweeter combination in a physically isolated top box. All very exiting and many features are top secret but I think the finished product will be pretty awesome, - cant wait.

Grimmie

That was an excellent read. Awesome adventure you had in Melbourne and glad that you are happy

I usually don't have the patience to read through posts as long as this however I enjoyed everything you had to say about the retailers, speakers and personal journey to reach your audio nirvana

Congrats on your purchase Grimmie, be sure to take a ship load of pics for us ooooh, so what's the ETA?

Where the heck has my post gone?

I'll just put up my main points :

-Long post, don't normally read.

-Turned out to be a fantastic read loved hearing about your experience

-Congrats!!!!!

-Pix please

-ETA?

Fantastic read Grimmie, finally got 'round to reading about your adventures. You've done what I dream of, heading over to Vic and hearing in person all that great gear that I get to read about on Stereonet. Congrats on making your final choice, hope to hear more about them when they finally arrive.... oh, and naturally some pic's to follow.

Cheers

CJ

Grimmie,

Awesome write up, couldnt put it down (figuratively speaking).

Im a little dissapointed however you found the SGR's so much better than the Vantage based system as my Vantage's arrive anyday now.

I would love to know more about the SGR's now but there isnt much available on the web or am I looking in the wrong places?

Ray.

Anyhow, - Then came the bombshell.

...

These Darth Vader unmasked look-a-likes were simply astounding in their presentation of the music. Imagine every best attribute of every speaker mentioned so far, double its quality in every aspect, and there you would hear the active Octagons.

Thats a very familiar feeling. Similar to the one I had when I heard the Octagon's at Harry's place, SUPERB.

Great reading, Grimmie. The thoroughness of your approach is obvious.