steve u Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Loaded and happy. I mean the firmware. Very impressed with how PSAudio are developing this product. Playing some CD's now and it sounds better. Hard to say where exactly, just gets more engaging each time. 2
AccMagi7s Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Over the last five days, I had the audition opportunity to this 'PSA-DSD' in my very own listenning environment. Thought I should share my listenning experience here. Any products from PS Audio, they are well packaging with double boxes and the attention to detail with elegantly finish. The DSD (Direct Stream DAC) is extremely easy to use, it's just a matter of plug and play. Among many strong attributes where I appreciate from this DSD are multiples inputs, I2S direct, USB, coaxial, optical. This goes without saying, this is the most analog replication from DSD format I have heard from my experience with DACs. Ok, so how does it sound? It sound great! The resolution/detail from this PSA-DSD is beyond imaginable, crystal clear, extremely low noise floor, and virtually no distortion at all. Mind you I was connecting it to my PSA PW P10. The separation/spacious between vocal/instruments were very obvious. Point sharp/precision/focus, the PSA-DSD is! Those are looking for extra detail/extreme resolution and the extension of dynamic ranges, highly recommending you to give it a good audition in your very well known environment. It is a little pity that this audition came a little too late for me since I have currently finalising my 'World Tallest DAC' after many many months of soul searching for the right (analog alike) DAC. http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/68388-could-this-be-the-first-tallest-diy-dac/ Therefore present priority is misaligned with the opportunity to acquire this beauty. It is unfortunately for the rightful owner of this DSD force to pass on this DAC due to unforeseen oversea work commitment. The Australian RRP is $7,500, he is happy to let it goes at a lost, asking $6,000. Note this DAC is less then a Month from the day of acquisition. Pls PM Brodricj if interest? Edited: This PSA-DSD comes with Bridge. Edited October 7, 2014 by 24Bits
Assisi Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 Hi 24Bits, Which version of the firmware did the DS have installed? The latest version 1.2.1 is significantly superior to the previous versions. If it did not have 1.2.1 you would be surprised as to much better the SQ is with the new firmware. John
AccMagi7s Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 Hi 24Bits, Which version of the firmware did the DS have installed? The latest version 1.2.1 is significantly superior to the previous versions. If it did not have 1.2.1 you would be surprised as to much better the SQ is with the new firmware. John Hi John, It was the latest firmware 1.21. Cheers.
Assisi Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 I said in a previous post the I would comment on the PS Audio DS and the Antipodes DX Server. The Latest firmware (1.2.1) for the DS was released late last month. The day after I got a copy of the firmware I received my Antipodes DX Server. So I had a day listening to the DS with the new firmware before I started listening to the DS with the Server feeding it. In hindsight this was not auspicious timing. I should have delayed the listening of one of the changes for a time to become familiar with one change before venturing into the other. I didn’t as I was impatient to experience everything straight away. The new firmware is a significant step up from the old. Some people have said that the DS is now a ‘new’ DAC and it is. I auditioned the Server with the old firmware and it was a definite improvement. The short listening however with the new firmware then clouded my initial impression of the Server feeding the DS. There was an improvement but the impact was not as much as I had expected. It has taken me awhile to come to grips with what is happening. As well, at the beginning the listening experience became confused with USB difficulties. Until now except for a short audition with a Bryston's BDP-1 I have never used USB. I have used mainly a NAS and the bridge and sometimes SPDIF from an OPPO. I used the cable the server came with and within a few minutes the DS stopped working and had to be reset. This happened a few times and so I tried another cable same thing. All the cables I have were low quality. I have a few and eventually found one the worked perfectly. So all cables are not equal. I have tried one of moderate quality that improved dramatically over a few hours. As well as mentioned in the thread titled 'A session with Antipodes and Wyred servers' started by @@Stereophilus we tried a JCat cable last weekend which was noticeably better again. So I have discovered that the quality of the USB cable can make a difference and not all cables work in the combination of the DX Server and DS in my situation. I do not know why? It is going to be an interesting time finding a cable that works and that I like. The Server is simple to operate and once I overcame the USB hiccup the combination has been rock solid. I do not have to know anything about setting up and tuning software. It just works. I can easily play DSD if I want to but PCM is so good that DSD is not really necessary. Now that I have a few weeks of listening I can say that I am extremely pleased with the Server as it does bring a subtle but definite improvement in the SQ. The improvement is not as much as I had expected but I think that some of that is to do with the new DS firmware. May be with the previous firmware the change may have been greater. I have not gone back to find out. When comparing a track played from the NAS and the Server, the sound stage is even more three dimensional with the Server. The SQ has more detail, clarity, smoothness, refinement, and finesse. Everything now has more life and seems more natural or real. The decay on a guitar, harp or piano note lasts longer. The notes just float in the air. It is probable that with changes in a setup that is already very good will not bring about a miracle improvement. However every little bit helps on the journey to music listening nirvana. The combination of of the Server and the DS is a definite listening pleasure. John 3
Assisi Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 Maybe I should have said that the Antipodes DX that I heard during the audition probably had many hours of running whereas with mine the initial listening was straight out of the box. It now has a few hundred hours. The DS DAC continued to improve after many hundreds of hours. Mark Jenkins from Antipodes has said that the DX will continue to improve over the first six months. I will wait and see. John
Assisi Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 I have placed in my DS DAC Synergistic Research Quantum SR20 Fuses and I thought that they made some difference. Nothing overly exciting. Yesterday I acquired some Synergistic Red fuses for the Antipodes Server. I could not get any for the DAC at the time as they were out of stock. Well I placed the reds in the server last night. All I can say is that straight away it was an absolute wow moment. Supposedly there is aright and wrong way to place them and i do not even know whether they are right or not. The new SQ was incredible. It was so smooth, gentle and detailed. It is just like tasting and and savouring a beautiful quality dark chocolate. I think that I now know what is meant by digital harshness. I do not know what it means when somebody says that the SQ is analog and not digital. But this might be a case. Anybody who says that fuses do not make a difference needs to try these fuses. Mine will definitely not be leaving the server and I will be getting some for the DAC ASAP. John 2
Assisi Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 I bought mine from http://melbournehifi.com.au/ Last night I placed the fuses in with the text going from right to left (backwards) and the power is flowing in the same direction ( from right to left) This afternoon I have tried them with the text going from left to right as you would read the text. This is the way that some or most people who have used the earlier SR20 Quantum version said was better. It is not easy to discern much of a difference but it is probable that this second way is marginally better. I am going to leave them this way for the time being. John
PKay Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Audio Solutions in Botany Rd, Sydney. The red fuses are $120 each. I am waiting to hear back from Mark before I go out and try them. Having just bought a vertes double d-fi usb on stereonet I want to get used to the new usb first.
Assisi Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 The Server should only require small fuses which should cost approx $99. The $120 fuses are probably large.
Once was an audiophile Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 l I have placed in my DS DAC Synergistic Research Quantum SR20 Fuses and I thought that they made some difference. Nothing overly exciting. Yesterday I acquired some Synergistic Red fuses for the Antipodes Server. I could not get any for the DAC at the time as they were out of stock. Well I placed the reds in the server last night. All I can say is that straight away it was an absolute wow moment. Supposedly there is aright and wrong way to place them and i do not even know whether they are right or not. The new SQ was incredible. It was so smooth, gentle and detailed. It is just like tasting and and savouring a beautiful quality dark chocolate. I think that I now know what is meant by digital harshness. I do not know what it means when somebody says that the SQ is analog and not digital. But this might be a case. Anybody who says that fuses do not make a difference needs to try these fuses. Mine will definitely not be leaving the server and I will be getting some for the DAC ASAP. John The best fuse is no fuse just some copper wire (cat5) i know its illegal but so are drugs and many ppl use them.............
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) l The best fuse is no fuse just some copper wire (cat5) i know its illegal but so are drugs and many ppl use them............. I find myself in rare agreement with you. ALL fuses are non-linear resistors. ALL fuses introduce distortion, if improperly used. Doesn't matter if they cost $100.0 or $0.10. If you must use a fuse, then buy one from these guys: http://www.littelfuse.com/ http://www.schurter.com.au/ http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/bussmann/electrical.html These companies manufacture very high quality products, at sane prices and, most importantly, their products are ISO traceable and properly and completely specified. Sadly, not a trace of snake oil. Edited October 24, 2014 by Zaphod Beeblebrox 4
Demondes Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 I finally have my handed over my PS Audio PWD II for the upgrade kit to be installed, courtesy of Tivoli HiFi. Good Pricing too. Can't wait to hear that baby sing when it returns
Assisi Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 These companies manufacture very high quality products, at sane prices and, most importantly, their products are ISO traceable and properly and completely specified. Sadly, not a trace of snake oil. There are many companies that manufacture quality fuses. The ones you quote may very well supply quality product. I do not know. What I do know is that with the Synergistic Research Red Fuses there is absolutely no snake oil. They are the bees knees. The definitely provided a significant improvement in SQ. Through a discussion with @ I became aware that the server actually has four fuses. So I now have to get another two. It will be interesting to see what the result of two more fuses will be. John
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 There are many companies that manufacture quality fuses. The ones you quote may very well supply quality product. I do not know. What I do know is that with the Synergistic Research Red Fuses there is absolutely no snake oil. They are the bees knees. The definitely provided a significant improvement in SQ. Through a discussion with @ I became aware that the server actually has four fuses. So I now have to get another two. It will be interesting to see what the result of two more fuses will be. John The companies I cited supply the BEST fuses available. The VERY BEST. And at sane prices. Even better, their products are fully and accurately specified. They do precisely what they are designed to do. I visited the Synergistic Research site and could find exactly zero information on their fuses that is of any use to an engineer. As a consequence, no reputable engineer will specify their fuses for use in a quality product. Are you able to supply specifications on their product? I would like to see the science behind their claims, along with some double-blind, independent tests. 1
Assisi Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 The companies I cited supply the BEST fuses available. The VERY BEST. And at sane prices. Even better, their products are fully and accurately specified. They do precisely what they are designed to do. I visited the Synergistic Research site and could find exactly zero information on their fuses that is of any use to an engineer. As a consequence, no reputable engineer will specify their fuses for use in a quality product. Are you able to supply specifications on their product? I would like to see the science behind their claims, along with some double-blind, independent tests. I did not suggest at all that any of the companies that you cited did not manufacture quality product. To say that they manufacturer the best or even the very best would naturally I am sure be open to debate and comment by people far more qualified than me. Just because the fuses I have mentioned do not comply with your strict engineering specification measurement expectations does not all mean that they will not deliver a quality outcome. There are some important words in the title to this thread. They are ..â€Owner Experiences and Listening Impressionsâ€. I am telling just as I hear it. Nothing more than that . I am not an engineer so I unfortunately I do not have the benefit of the knowledge from the training that may be bestowed on a person such as you. SNA is littered with posts from people who offer their opinions about products etc. Do they all have to provide the evidence to your level of proof. Surely I am entitled to offer my opinion. I have the empirical evidence as I know what I am hearing. The real question is have you heard a unit with the Synergistic Research red fuses installed? I am sure if did that you would be impressed as I was. John
PKay Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 John, It would be interesting to see what fuse was previously used in the DX. Are there any indentifying markers? I am balking at spending $480 for 4 fuses and possibly another $80 for a tech to change them. Reading the synergistic web site they had a money back guarantee allowing for 30 days of testing. When I contacted the retailer in Sydney that wasn't mentioned at all. I suspect that you would be hard pushed to get the 30 day trial - at the prices they are charging there should be some form of test period. I am going to wait a bit and see what Antipodes come up with re further testing of fuses. As an interim I may try some cheaper fuses mentioned by @@Zaphod Beeblebrox. I will await further updates from you John as the fuses are supposed to improve with some burn in. I am enjoying the sound from the Antipodes and any improvement would be welcomed.
Guest Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 @@georgehifi - post removed. Don't stir the pot! Owners of Direct Stream DACs are discussing fuses. They are not asking if you agree with the use of them!
kdoot Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) About to join the owners club! Some comments based on listening to Southport HiFi's demo unit, which I have been able to borrow for a home trial...This DAC turns some conventional audiophile wisdom, and perhaps a lot of financial and emotional investment, on its arse.Yes, that was fun to say, but I need to immediately qualify: this is a DAC for people who want to their audio recordings transcribed with the utmost truth and integrity from an encoded digital format to analogue electrical waveforms. It is the ultimate product for the "accuracy" camp of listeners. (Measurers still have some things to debate over.) Yet at the same time, it ought to appeal to a lot of vinyl lovers who have shied away from the seemingly-intractable flaws that digital has struggled with to date, because (IMO) the DirectStream's unique architecture is the breakthrough we needed for digital to match vinyl's sense of physicality.So which bits of audiophile dogma, exactly, have been up-arsed?I'll start with the less-controversial one: if your power amp is electrically suitable for being driven by the DirectStream's 100-ohm impedance and moderate output level, this DAC's digital volume control is superior to any analogue pre-amplifier or attenuator. If you don't like the sound of the DS direct to your amplifier, then you should consider changing something else – speaker placement, room treatments, cabling, amplifier or speakers, probably in that order – before adding a pre-amp. In most cases, a pre-amp that brings short-term gain (pun intended) is a long-term limitation on your system’s performance.The justification for this is pretty easy. First, the DirectStream output stage is based on an audio transformer rather than simple current-to-voltage conversion and has more than enough drive for the majority of amplifier circuits. Second, the DAC's noise floor is super low, such that your amplifier will almost certainly be the dominant source of noise coming from your speakers. Third, PS Audio says that the internal computations performed in the DAC mean that every bit of digital input will have an effect on the DSD datastream at the output, even at the most extreme level of attenuation. That is to say, no bits of resolution are ever lost due to volume calculations. Yes, the music will gradually be pushed below the DAC's noise floor, but as mentioned that's already lower than the noise floor of most amps.Next up on the dead dogma pile is a doozy: the best digital input on this DAC is (IMO)... Toslink! What's more, it doesn't matter how well engineered or expensive your digital source gear is, or how cheap: so long as it sends the right bits at a reasonably consistent pace, they'll all sound identically brilliant!I've done a fair bit of experimenting with different coax, USB and optical inputs into this DAC. Frustratingly, I've found the enjoyment of music to be impacted by all sorts of variables on the electrical side. Cables. Computers. Software. Power supplies. All of that bull$hit which in theory a perfect DAC shouldn't give a stuff about so long as the right bits of data are coming in. I had high hopes that the DirectStream design would level the playing field, but no. There's still – as far as I can tell - "something" getting through the wired connections and impacting on the audio in deleterious ways.It's not input jitter, by the way. The DirectStream's tuneable clock and buffered virtual input processing are fricking awesome. So long as the source is sending data at a reasonably consistent pace at a rate which approximates 44.1/88.2/176.4/384.8 or 48/96/192 thousand samples per second per channel, the DAC will match that average pace but clock the individual DSD pulses out at *precisely* identical intervals to its output stage. No, it's the other undefinable "hash" or electrical noise of some form riding in on the metal wires which is causing something heinous to happen at the business end.And that's exactly why Toslink is the hero here. We've all come to know Toslink as the worst-sounding option in digital audio because every other DAC on the market struggles with the imprecise timing (ie jitter) caused by the slow response times of the optical-to-electrical transceivers. It exists on audiophile products as a kind of concession to convenience. It’s not for serious listening. Everybody knows that.But with the DirectStream architecture, Toslink's input jitter actually doesn't matter. For real this time! And being a plastic cable with nothing but photons coming through it, there's zero opportunity for "hash" to find its way in either. Nothing but the data.I imagine somebody’s going to bring up the I2S inputs, and digital lenses and such. What you need to realise about those things is that they are throwing engineering at fixing a problem which the DS doesn’t have. They can’t deliver any better results through reduced jitter, because all the inputs get processed and de-jittered by the DS in the same way. And they all are based on electrical connections, which open up a pathway for the kinds of problems to which optical is totally immune. Game over.It's funny: Paul and Ted (the PS Audio business owner and DirectStream lead engineer) weren't even aware that their product supported up to 192kHz sample rates on the optical input. They assumed (and their web site states) that the optical input is limited to 96kHz, because that's the official Toslink spec. But my real world testing here shows that all rates up to 192 work perfectly if you have a source which also supports those rates plus a decent cable (I couldn't get to 192 going through two cables and a passive optical switch, but using a $20-odd cable by itself has worked flawlessly).(UPDATE: Alcarp says his unit doesn't sync higher than 96kHz, and Paul McGowan says that being able to play higher rates on the Toslink input is pure luck on the unit I tested. The parts are specced to 96kHz only, though I hope that might change in the future.) (UPDATE 2: I just swapped Southport's demo unit for my very own shiny black DS, and with much trepidation hit the play button on some 192kHz PCM content from my SqueezeBox Touch connected over optical. And it plays! I couldn't be more pleased.) The best sound I have ever heard, and the most enjoyable musical reproduction I've ever experienced, is being generated using a SqueezeBox Touch as a bit-perfect digital transport for files ranging from 256kbps AAC (ie iTunes Store tracks, which get decoded to 24-bit 44.1kHz sample rate PCM), lossless CD rips at 16/44.1, through to 24-bit 192kHz lossless PCM, connected via a $20 plastic optical cable to the DirectStream DAC. Which in turn is, of course, directly feeding my 200Wpc power amplifier.Optical sources sound consistenly as good as, or better than, any other form of input I’ve heard with this DAC, in my system or at Southport HiFi. That includes a purpose-built audio PC connected via USB as well as my own Audiophilleo 2 with PurePower plugged straight into the coax input.So in the next few weeks, my system is likely to undergo a major transformation. I’ve been using Mac mini, iTunes, Audirvana, Audiophilleo, Metrum and a passive attenuator for quite a while. The Mac mini will remain part of the system but in another room so I don’t have even the low background whirr of the hard disk adding to the ambient noise. The Logitech Media Server software will make the music library available to the Squeezebox Touch, and the free LMS app for iPad plus infra-red remote give me lots of easy control options. Optical to the DirectStream. Win.For the time being I’ll have to manually swap the optical cable to my TV for watching movies and such, but some time down the track I’ll grab something like ViewHD 4-way active optical switcher with IR remote, then set up a Harmony universal to control the lot. Or PS Audio might release an upgraded DirectStream with multiple optical inputs including one using ST fibre to support 384kHz PCM and DSD128 The digital audio revolution may have finally acheived its objective with the DirectStream DAC, and I’m loving it. Edited October 30, 2014 by kdoot 4
kdoot Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 PS - if you're testing optical for yourself, be sure to disconnect all the other inputs on the DAC so you don't have any chance of cross-contamination.
Stereophilus Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 Interesting observation re Toslink @@kdoot. I haven't extensively tested that input. But you are right about the I2S input. It is not the clear winner for SQ that it was on the PerfectWave DAC mk2. The USB input can be stunningly good, but doesn't reject noise in the same way Toslink does. I have my Apple TV feeding the toslink input on the DS. I occasionally use this to stream music to the DS and haven't had an issue. IME (so far) it is pretty tough to pick any particular input on the DS as being obviously superior. But as you rightly say, jitter is no longer the enemy that determines my preference. Regarding preamp use, I won't disagree. The DS is a superb source and as I said earlier in the DS thread (not this one) the volume control is absolutely lossless. I find myself still using my preamp to add some life back to the music. It is ultimately not as transparent as DAC direct, but you gain a bit more colour and character that (for some music) is more important. Have fun with it. Unfortunately it can make you painfully aware of previously unknown weaknesses in your system. 1
Demondes Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 kdoot, did you try the bridge (Ethernet), or didn't the test unit come with the bridge installed? I plan to use Dop with the bridge when I get my upgraded machine back. Nice review
kdoot Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 kdoot, did you try the bridge (Ethernet), or didn't the test unit come with the bridge installed? I plan to use Dop with the bridge when I get my upgraded machine back. Nice review This unit has the bridge, but I have absolutely no intention of buying one. It doesn't do gapless playback! Plus it is based on DLNA whereas my stuff is all from the iTunes side of the fence. So no. I haven't tried it.
Recommended Posts