Separate DAC & Streamer, or combo?

[Dawso8]

1 hour ago, POV said:

Yep I understand and don’t disagree.  
 

Indeed back to DACs.  Out of interest have you gone into A2A in Melbourne?  Last time I was there they had a pretty big range of DACs in stock.  Would give you a chance to listen to some of these for yourself, albeit with different equipment.  But maybe using some neutral headphones and clean head amp takes out a few of the variables and gets you a bit closer to being able to discern the differences.  Fair warning, you are going to find the differences are subtle so long as things are volume matched.

 

I haven't been down there, no. They have a MASSIVE range on the website, but don't carry Gustard. At this point, I think I am pretty sold on the A26 (getting a bit fatigued with it all to be honest! Thought I was done haha).

[oldrose]

3 hours ago, POV said:

Obviously understand the frustration, but do try to see it from the point of view of the retailer.   Holding a lot of stock is a costly and potentially risky approach, but people want tons of readily available options.  Some retailers do handle this better though with ‘in stock’ meaning in their physical possession and ‘available from supplier’ meaning not in their possession.  Reality is that in majority of circumstances the direct ship from supplier model does work and most people none the wiser.

I couldn't disagree more. In stock should mean they have it in one of their premises and it's ready to be picked up or shipped. If it needs to be fulfilled they can indicate how long it might take.

 

I'm in the same situation with Addicted to Audio - ordering items they say they have in stock in the warehouse, paying extra for expedited delivery and a week later that order status is still unfulfilled.

 

Ordering stuff online from other retailers like JB, Good Guys etc - they can be relied on for their stock status and if it's in a local store have it delivered (for a fee of course) within minutes of you ordering it.

 

Back to the topic - that X26 looks like a cool piece of kit and if @Dawso8 can find a retailer who gives a proper timeline for delivery then it's probably better to wait for what you want than settling for something else. 

 

 

[Dawso8]

1 minute ago, oldrose said:

I couldn't disagree more. In stock should mean they have it in one of their premises and it's ready to be picked up or shipped. If it needs to be fulfilled they can indicate how long it might take.

 

I'm in the same situation with Addicted to Audio - ordering items they say they have in stock in the warehouse, paying extra for expedited delivery and a week later that order status is still unfulfilled.

 

Ordering stuff online from other retailers like JB, Good Guys etc - they can be relied on for their stock status and if it's in a local store have it delivered (for a fee of course) within minutes of you ordering it.

 

Back to the topic - that X26 looks like a cool piece of kit and if @Dawso8 can find a retailer who gives a proper timeline for delivery then it's probably better to wait for what you want than settling for something else. 

 

 

 

Yea I think 'Available from Supplier' would be a much more accurate description as @POV suggested. It is quite misleading to say it is in stock when it is in fact in another country... 

 

I have pulled the trigger on the A26 (providing A1 have it "in stock" haha). It is a very similar build in all aspects outside the chipset. So happy with this option.

[brodricj]

14 hours ago, POV said:

 

I chuckle everytime I see the MSB Reference DAC MSRP.  Absolute Madness.

If you chuckle at that, what is your reaction to MSB Select MSRP?

[POV]

8 hours ago, oldrose said:

I couldn't disagree more. In stock should mean they have it in one of their premises and it's ready to be picked up or shipped. If it needs to be fulfilled they can indicate how long it might take.

 

I'm in the same situation with Addicted to Audio - ordering items they say they have in stock in the warehouse, paying extra for expedited delivery and a week later that order status is still unfulfilled.

 

Ordering stuff online from other retailers like JB, Good Guys etc - they can be relied on for their stock status and if it's in a local store have it delivered (for a fee of course) within minutes of you ordering it.

 

Back to the topic - that X26 looks like a cool piece of kit and if @Dawso8 can find a retailer who gives a proper timeline for delivery then it's probably better to wait for what you want than settling for something else. 

 

 

Try to get some perspective.  Comparing Addicted to Audio to JB Hifi (who owns Good Guys) is completely ludicrous.  JB Hifi is a $7b dollar company with epic cash reserves and resources.  Addicted to Audio is the retail arm of Busisoft which is by comparison tiny, with a fraction of the resources of JB Hifi. 
 

Do you like having retail stores like Addicted to Audio available to you?  If so instead of having completely unrealistic expectations (like comparing to JB Hifi and Good Guys) then maybe just work with them to get a suitable outcome.

 

If you want a retailer like Addicted to Audio to carry stock for all of the options they have available, whilst simultaneously wanting/expecting them to have a broad range of options and staying in business then you are simply being unreasonable, and not seeking to understand the commercial reality of running a business.

 

 

[POV]

8 hours ago, brodricj said:

If you chuckle at that, what is your reaction to MSB Select MSRP?

I think it’s ludicrous, and I say that as someone who can absolutely afford to buy MSB Select if I want.  It’s too me equivalent of burning your money, and whilst I can afford it, I have no desire to gift my money to a company like MSB who run the most epic of profit margins, and outright lie in their marketing material.  I would actually rather burn money than support a company like them with zero morals.

[Grizaudio]

56 minutes ago, POV said:

I think it’s ludicrous, and I say that as someone who can absolutely afford to buy MSB Select if I want.  It’s too me equivalent of burning your money, and whilst I can afford it, I have no desire to gift my money to a company like MSB who run the most epic of profit margins, and outright lie in their marketing material.  I would actually rather burn money than support a company like them with zero morals.

 

Tell it like it is.... this type of product is a clear demonstration of the power of marketing and psychology. 

Typically esoteric product has very little do to with cost of production, performance, or benefit over measured lower cost technical excellence.

 

Its clearly a symbol of status, identity and ego. I.e. Luxury good. 

Edited April 17 by Grizaudio

[brodricj]

1 hour ago, POV said:

..If you want a retailer like Addicted to Audio to carry stock for all of the options they have available...

I understand the point differently, which is one of truth telling. They say the item is in stock or in-store when it's not.

[manta_act]

This combo works well for me. Bluesound Node N130 second hand plus a Denafrips DAC up to your budget.

Edited April 18 by manta_act

[Bass13]

23 hours ago, POV said:

  I would actually rather burn money than support a company like them with zero morals.

 

Please don't burn your money, I have morels, send it to me, so I can experiment with some different front end sources, your welcome to come over and listen.... food & wine included.

 

[Dawso8]

14 hours ago, manta_act said:

This combo works well for me. Bluesound Node N130 second hand plus a Denafrips DAC up to your budget.

 

Cheers mate! I have pulled the trigger on the Gustard A26 with a WiiM Pro feeding it. 

[Dawso8]

The WiiM arrived yesterday, man it isn't going to win many beauty contests, cheap plastic square.

 

For shits & gigs, going to hook it up tonight and see how it goes as a solo streamer/DAC

[Dawso8]

Here are some very quick initial thoughts on the WiiM Pro working as streamer & DAC.

 

Set up: WiiM Pro > Marantz 3300 > Bottlehead Crack > Beyerdynamic Amiron Home. Will get the speakers cranking tomorrow

 

Wow, set up took all of 2 minutes, the app is incredibly intuitive and easy to use. Very impressed.

 

Sound-wise not actually as bad as I was expecting! It’s a little bit **** across the board, but it’s not horrendous. 

Slow and sluggish, in Tell Mama (Etta James) it feels like it is always trying to catch up. 

Soundstage is narrow and very 2D, most tracks sound like a Phil Spector wall of sound mix. In the Reckoner (Radiohead) intro, the space around the instruments is absent making it difficult to locate clearly each part in the mix. 

The Paranoid Android (Radiohead) breakdown section is quite muddy as it struggles with the vocal layers. Thom’s vocals are easy to pinpoint and sit back in the mix like most Radiohead tracks. 

It’s brittle in the top end as you would expect. The timbre of the mids is quite pleasant, but it struggles with muddiness in the upper bass (this is the hardest band for sound reproduction IMHO).

The track Who by St. Vincent & David Byrne is a great track to test equipment (male/female vocals, horns, big bass). It actually does an ok job with organising the vocals here. And the lower horns sound quite good, but it isn’t great when moving up the register. 

 

Could I live with this in its own? No, but for $200 I was expecting it to be a lot worse than this. I think most non-audio people could quite easily buy this and be set. Makes me curious about the Pro Plus which has the upgraded chip…

Bring on the A26, looks like it’s arriving Monday/Tuesday.

[Grizaudio]

17 hours ago, Dawso8 said:

Sound-wise not actually as bad as I was expecting! It’s a little bit **** across the board, but it’s not horrendous. 

 

lol, not as bad as you were expecting, but a little ****. 

 

 

Why did you buy the Wim if you were purchasing the a26 which has an inbuilt streamer?

Looks nicely made: https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/gustard-a26-dac-mqa-dual-ak4499ex-chip-with-streamer-renderer-pcm768-dsd512-xmos-high-performance-audio-decoder

 

Edited April 20 by Grizaudio

[Dawso8]

13 minutes ago, Grizaudio said:

 

lol, not as bad as you were expecting, but a little ****. 

 

 

Why did you buy the Wim if you were purchasing the a26 which has an inbuilt streamer?

Looks nicely made: https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/gustard-a26-dac-mqa-dual-ak4499ex-chip-with-streamer-renderer-pcm768-dsd512-xmos-high-performance-audio-decoder

 

Ha I was expecting it to sound pretty bad, but it wasn’t awful! Just a bit bad across everything really. Lucky the streamer is good!

 

You can only stream with it via the LAN input, it doesn’t have Bluetooth, hence the WiiM

[Grizaudio]

3 minutes ago, Dawso8 said:

You can only stream with it via the LAN input, it doesn’t have Bluetooth, hence the WiiM

 

Why is this an issue? Couldn't you connect a google wifi locally for Lan? 

If I had the a26, I would use its streamer for sure (But I haven't used its software).... 

I think it runs Roon bridge too? 

Edited April 20 by Grizaudio

[Dawso8]

29 minutes ago, Grizaudio said:

 

Why is this an issue? Couldn't you connect a google wifi locally for Lan? 

If I had the a26, I would use its streamer for sure (But I haven't used its software).... 

I think it runs Roon bridge too? 

Na there are no Ethernet ports on the Google points. It’s bloody annoying.

 

Streams via Roon or UpNP servers, so you can pick your software 

[aussievintage]

9 minutes ago, Dawso8 said:

Na there are no Ethernet ports on the Google points. It’s bloody annoying.

 

There are plenty of devices that receive Wifi and provide a local ethernet point.  Plenty under $100.    Why does it have to be a google device?

[Dawso8]

36 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

There are plenty of devices that receive Wifi and provide a local ethernet point.  Plenty under $100.    Why does it have to be a google device?

I’ve got Google set up already

[aussievintage]

Just now, Dawso8 said:

I’ve got Google set up already

 

But it's wifi.  Anything can connect to it.

[aussievintage]

https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B01EK8ENK0

 

[Dawso8]

9 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

But it's wifi.  Anything can connect to it.

Yea I understand. I could do that, but just another thing to purchase and cable.

[Grizaudio]

Seems weird to by a streamer/dac and not use the streamer. 

 

 

This is why I use Orbi. 

The Orbi master router has something like 4 lan ports, and so does the endpoint. 

I use the endpoint to connect my gear in the HiFi space. 

 

Much better than no lan ports... 

Edited April 20 by Grizaudio

[Grizaudio]

It would be interesting to compare the inbuilt A26 streamer to the Wim. 

I would be working out how to cable it, and trialling Roon. 

[georgehifi]

On 04/04/2024 at 4:22 PM, Dawso8 said:

I am a bit torn as to whether I invest in a one box DAC/Streamer (eg Eversolo DMP-6 Master Edition), or go with a cheaper streamer (WIIM?) and spend the majority of my budget on the DAC.

 

Get a good streamer that has aes/ebu or at least coax digital outputs and use the best dac you can afford that has digital domain volume control, and go direct into your  Marantz 250M power amp (no preamp)

 

Cheers George

Edited April 20 by georgehifi