A poll for interest's sake on some controversial topics.

[MLXXX]

 

Recent discussion in this Great Audio Debate section of SNA forums has prompted me to reflect on the fact that views many SNA members hold about audiophile matters are unlikely to be changed by the accumulation and presentation of objective evidence, or — for that matter —  subjective evidence.

 

We often see arguments along the following lines:

 

1. Measurements showing no differences between audio signals  must be rejected on the basis that science is not infallible and there may be something about an audio signal that science does not know about and is not being measured that is actually responsible for the audible differences people have reported hearing.

 

 

2. A controlled double blind statistical test result strongly suggesting an inability to hear a difference must be rejected because blind tests:

• are not valid for audiophile matters
• are impossible or near impossible to perform correctly; or,
• must be flawed if there have been multiple reported instances of audiophiles hearing a difference under everyday uncontrolled listening conditions.

 

3. Anecdotal reports of hearing a difference, particularly where measurements indicate no significant difference in the audio signal,  must be rejected as being potentially subject to unconscious bias.

 

 

What is truth in the modern world on non-audiophile scientific matters?

 

We live in a world where even non-audiophile matters that might be thought uncontroversial are — these days —  controversial. As a young lad I saw the live TV broadcast in Australia of the 1969 Apollo 11 moon landing.  At the time, people in Australia accepted this at face value.  Even the Russian government did.  Now there is widespread scepticism as to whether that NASA moon landing occurred. According to Wikipedia, "Opinion polls taken in various locations have shown that between 6% and 20% of Americans, 25% of Britons, and 28% of Russians surveyed believe that the crewed landings were faked.".

 

There is even a significant percentage of people who claim they believe the earth is flat, though it's possible some of those people may simply be attention seekers.  The POLES 2021 Survey conducted by the University of New Hampshire, investigating U.S. public perceptions and knowledge about science, found that 10% of respondents thought the world was flat, and 9% were unsure.   

 

Conclusion

 

I conclude that given that so many people apparently cannot even agree on whether the world is round as distinct from flat, despite the huge weight of evidence that is readily available to indicate that it isn't flat, there is little hope of obtaining agreement on contentious audiophile matters where evidence is, in comparison, quite limited, and at times somewhat technical in nature.

 

This poll is just for interest's sake to see what opinions people willing to participate in the poll have.  Being an anonymous poll, people can vote without worrying what others might think of their opinions.

 

Note: this thread is not intended as a launching pad for discussion about what views on the controversial topics are "correct".  Such discussion would just be rehashing old ground! 

 

I hope it will be of interest to see what views members indicate they have, particularly as the polling is anonymous.

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by MLXXX

[aussievintage]

I must commend this poll as a good idea.

 

I feel the poll will/may reveal to what extent, the arguments ad nauseum, on many of these subjects, are simply the result of either, very noisy minorities, or actual points worth debating.

 

It may also (hopefully) reveal to individuals, to what extent their own beliefs differ from , or agree with, the mainstream. 

 

I hope this...

7 hours ago, MLXXX said:

Note: this thread is not intended as a launching pad for discussion about what views on the controversial topics are "correct".  Such discussion would just be rehashing old ground! 

is strongly enforced.  We don't need more rehashing, that's for sure.

[March Audio]

@MLXXX This is an excellent post.

 

All you can do is provide objective evidence, technical and subjective based (ie listening), for people to assess and make their own minds up.

 

There are vocal individuals on both sides of any debate.  This can skew the impression that's gained of how many people in the wider readership view the points in question.  There are far more people reading than contributing.  So this anonymous poll is interesting to see what the wider view is on some subjects.

 

Just one point, the poll option didn't include categorically never as an option 

[Gee Emm]

All 'in my opinion' of course

[muon*]

Not taking part, not really any choices that are appropriate for me in near all of them.

 

I will say that I never ventured into fuses till a few weeks ago, grabbed some ACME CFC fuses for DAC and transport. I was very sceptical but was curious and these are not high price ones. They did change the sound and it was obvious, exposing a bit more detail, better definition but loosing some bass weight, so much so I removed the one from the transport.

I was never going to comment on this as I have watched the ridicule other have received for such comments on their experiences, but then I don't care about those thing much.

So yes they can audibly change the sound.

[March Audio]

8 minutes ago, muon* said:

Not taking part, not really any choices that are appropriate for me in near all of them.

Really???????  You are only indicating how likely a particular outcome is.  It doesn't have to be a literal accurate definition of where you sit.

 

For example, I wanted to answer "categorically never" for some, but the nearest choice is "practically", which I chose as an acceptable closest.

Edited August 12, 2023 by March Audio

[muon*]

9 minutes ago, March Audio said:

Really???????  Youvare only indicating how likely a particular outcome is.  It doesn't have to be a literal accurate definition of where you sit.

I dislike ambiguity, for instance IMO bit perfect does not mean it is guaranteed to sound the same.

 

Edit: most of the questions are meaningless to me.

Edited August 12, 2023 by muon*

[March Audio]

14 minutes ago, muon* said:

I will say that I never ventured into fuses till a few weeks ago, grabbed some ACME CFC fuses

 

With respect, I think this is exactly what @MLXXX has said he wants to avoid in this thread; discussion of specific controversial topics.

 

You can start another thread which might be interesting.

Edited August 12, 2023 by March Audio

[March Audio]

39 minutes ago, muon* said:

I dislike ambiguity, for instance IMO bit perfect does not mean it is guaranteed to sound the same.

That's actually a completely different question.  You have extrapolated an additional meaning.

 

The questions aren't ambiguous.

Edited August 12, 2023 by March Audio

[playdough]

Like throwing chips to seagulls.  

[muon*]

Just now, playdough said:

Like throwing chips to seagulls.  

Of just a meaningless thread for the most part.

[Keith_W]

I must say I am quite surprised by the results so far. Albeit the poll has only been up for 8 hours. I think the questions have been framed in a neutral way, and it is anonymous - so what you really think is not public information if you wanted to keep that to yourself. Brilliant work @MLXXX!

[MLXXX]

29 minutes ago, muon* said:

I dislike ambiguity, for instance IMO bit perfect does not mean it is guaranteed to sound the same.

 

Edit: most of the questions are meaningless to me.

If most of the questions seem meaningless to you then perhaps it was the right decision not to do the poll; though giving the nearest answer   or "no opinion" could be worth considering.

 

If it matters, "bit perfect" was intended to have its plain meaning that all the data bits in the s/pdif output are correct, as opposed to there being data corruption.   It was not intended to extend to other considerations such as the extent of jitter.

[playdough]

1 hour ago, muon* said:

meaningless thread

Harmless banter, but all respect to the Author, clever, well thought out and presented.

[muon*]

Disappointing that the pole needs to be anonymous to gain more respondents.

[aussievintage]

51 minutes ago, muon* said:

Disappointing that the pole needs to be anonymous to gain more respondents.

I really do not understand all your negativity, especially as you said you weren't participating.

 

[aussievintage]

2 hours ago, Keith_W said:

I must say I am quite surprised by the results so far. Albeit the poll has only been up for 8 hours. I think the questions have been framed in a neutral way, and it is anonymous - so what you really think is not public information if you wanted to keep that to yourself. Brilliant work @MLXXX!

 

Yes early yet, but I think it is already shaping up some, and I am looking to the final 'results'

[klm]

Only 22 respondents so far and going by the poll results, if I was bothered, I reckon I could name 14 just on their previous posts in recent threads.

Boys, you have this one in the bag.

[March Audio]

2 minutes ago, klm said:

I reckon I could name 14 just on their previous posts

 

....and I could name about only 5 that would naturally vote in the other direction .

 

Let it play out.  It's very early.

[POV]

3 hours ago, aussievintage said:

I really do not understand all your negativity, especially as you said you weren't participating.

 

It’s often a feature of the great debate section for a few posters to announce their non participation then participate anyways!

[aussievintage]

12 minutes ago, POV said:

It’s often a feature of the great debate section for a few posters to announce their non participation then participate anyways!

 

Thing is, they often actually only want to participate in an argument, not the issue(s) being resolved.  In my opinion, it is part of the reason they like to take really "out there" stances.   Actually now I think about it, it is akin to trolling in many ways.

[POV]

16 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

Thing is, they often actually only want to participate in an argument, not the issue(s) being resolved.  In my opinion, it is part of the reason they like to take really "out there" stances.   Actually now I think about it, it is akin to trolling in many ways.

 

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, and like assume that they are not trolling, but I'm sure that does happen.

[rantan]

36 minutes ago, POV said:

It’s often a feature of the great debate section for a few posters to announce their non participation then participate anyways!

 

This happens time and time again. If I have no interest in a thread I usually just post this......................

[POV]

17 minutes ago, rantan said:

 

This happens time and time again. If I have no interest in a thread I usually just post this......................

 

It's not rocket science is it!

Edited August 12, 2023 by POV
splelling!

[muon*]

I myself have avoided partaking in the poll.

 

Maybe if it were a different pole.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by muon*