4 minutes ago, Jakeyb77_Redux said:

I think some sort of recognition of history might help. 
I’ve got only one eBay account since 2009 with 100% positive feedback.

My SNA history was the same back to 2014 on my old profile and this one has 100% positive feedback also. 
 

We used certain quality checking tools in Fed Govt departments.

When you start you’re on 100% checking.

As you prove yourself eventually 2% of your work is checked.

 

This would at least save checking ads that should be within the guidelines with a trusted seller.

Unless you’re a dumba$$ like me and put it in the wrong section 😳 

 

It would also tell other members that a transaction with that person may be easy.

 

Unless of course a profile gets hijacked but that’s not going to be the majority 

 

Reviewing and approving is not a proscriptive and robotic activity that follows a set list of criteria and check-boxes.

 

We do naturally spend less time checking and approving established seller's ads compared to infrequent or new sellers. There is a fingerprint of sorts to the structure and flow of many members' ad submissions and our familiarity with that is an unwritten cue that the ad is genuine and warrants a lower level of scrutiny than any other given ad.

 

This was a primary give-away during a relatively recent issue that was identified as a compromised account. To be clear, that's not a sign of security issues with our systems and infrastructure, but rather an outcome caused by sub-optimal personal security process. In other words, keep good security process front-and-centre in all your online activity.

• Do not re-use passwords across any sites and systems.
• Make your passwords complex.
• Preferably use a password manager to generate and store credentials for you.
• Change passwords periodically
• Use two factor authentication wherever possible
• Use passkeys if you can

Bottom-line is that the bulk of users would be amazed at the things we investigate and scrutinise, particularly the first ads from new users. It can take 15mins plus for one of these to be checked to our satisfaction before being approved.

 

"We work in the shadows so that nothing in the shadows will bring you harm." 😉

I'd just like something that prompts the other party to leave feedback after you give them feedback.

 

Separate thing I know.

12 minutes ago, muon* said:

I'd just like something that prompts the other party to leave feedback after you give them feedback.

 

Separate thing I know.

Yes, it annoys me a bit (maybe more than a bit 😵‍💫 ) 🙏

13 minutes ago, muon* said:

I'd just like something that prompts the other party to leave feedback after you give them feedback.

 

Separate thing I know.

Yes and I have to admit the couple of times I have purchased via the Classifieds - I find it hard to remember where to go to leave the feedback 🤣

35 minutes ago, April Snow said:

Yes and I have to admit the couple of times I have purchased via the Classifieds - I find it hard to remember where to go to leave the feedback 🤣

 

 

🙂

50 minutes ago, muon* said:

I'd just like something that prompts the other party to leave feedback after you give them feedback.

 

Separate thing I know.

 

Given the recipient received a notification that feedback has been left for them, you would think that would be enough of a trigger?

1 minute ago, Marc said:

 

Given the recipient received a notification that feedback has been left for them, you would think that would be enough of a trigger?

Yes, you would think that Marc 

Another vote here for an obligatory upfront fee, with the rest paid on sale of item. If buyers don't like it, there's always Facebook Marketplace or Gumtree for them. Ironically, some classifieds are on there too and it can give the seller an excuse to not pay fees, as it "sold elsewhere".

Same people who also try things on at retail level too, so the behaviour just needs to be curbed.

 

3 hours ago, Hydrology said:

Another vote here for an obligatory upfront fee, with the rest paid on sale of item. If buyers don't like it, there's always Facebook Marketplace or Gumtree for them. Ironically, some classifieds are on there too and it can give the seller an excuse to not pay fees, as it "sold elsewhere".

Same people who also try things on at retail level too, so the behaviour just needs to be curbed.

 

You’d think an upfront fee would deter scammers and reduce general admin. Scammers surely wouldn’t be keen to fork out even a small upfront fee.

2 hours ago, franky995 said:

Scammers surely wouldn’t be keen to fork out even a small upfront fee.

 

This has always been my argument for upfront sellers fees. But my list of 'against' still greatly outweights the fors, for now.

Upfront seller's fees could be introduced for the higher-priced items, where the advertising costs are more easily absorbed into the selling price.  eg.  items selling for $1K or more (with rounding up to manage those who price at $999 to avoid the fee). 
Upfront selling fees could eat into the viability of selling a $5 CD that might get listed a few times before selling. 

All of this wouldn't be an issue, if people did the right thing to start with, miserable selfish tight arse's, and as for scammers they are Scum at the Elite level.

 

Quite interesting the abuse you receive via text, even from well-regarded members with many posts, when a sold item is reported by the buyer.  Apparently, I am a ''dog" and should ''take a hike'' just because I asked them to do the right thing!

That sounds like something that very much goes against the "Spirit of StereoNET" and would be followed up on by us were it brought to our attention via the appropriate means.

On 23/02/2024 at 7:00 PM, audiofeline said:

Upfront selling fees could eat into the viability of selling a $5 CD that might get listed a few times before selling. 

 

This may be true, but I dont ever see it a problem for eBay.

1 hour ago, Hydrology said:

This may be true, but I dont ever see it a problem for eBay.

But on eBay, as I understand, selling fees are paid when an item is sold. 

My comment was in the context of prepaid selling fees, which are irrespective of a sale or not. 

1 hour ago, Hydrology said:

 

This may be true, but I dont ever see it a problem for eBay.

I don't sell on ebay because of the fees, and an upfront one here (being on a pension) I'd likely not list things when I need to the most.

 

Edit: I'm happy to pay the fees here on sale, and do.

Edited February 25, 20242 yr by muon*

43 minutes ago, audiofeline said:

But on eBay, as I understand, selling fees are paid when an item is sold. 

My comment was in the context of prepaid selling fees, which are irrespective of a sale or not. 

I havent advertised anything on eBay for a couple of years now, but when I did, you paid both a listing fee AND a fee once sold.

Just came across this thread again tonight, first time in a while.

 

i’m just a-thinkin’:

 

would it work if all for sale ads had a listing fee. Since all ads would have a fee, and not just those marked as sold, that would mean more items listed would be paid for (v just those sold) which i would think may mean less of a fee could be needed to be charged. 
 

now obviously i don’t have the numbers nor know the total remuneration needed, but maybe all listings would have a fee of say 2-2-5% fee, with a minimum of 50c, for those selling $5 cds and a maximum of say $200 for those listing $10000 items. 

and the conditions could be that the ad could be relisted for the next 3 months or so (6 months?) as long as the listed price did not increase , or the difference would be paid (ie listing fee adjusted to highest price listed). 
 

would reduce scams, non serious sellers, or pie in the sky pricing, or those directing traffic elsewhere, just for starters

 

i’m thinking it may increase the credibility of the items listed, the sellers involved and the classifieds as a whole 

 

just a thought and my 2c

 

Cheers

peter t

is it safe to post critiques of a websites fee structure on that same website. probably not but here goes.

i have sold items on here. i did so when the payment was voluntary. i can't recall what % i paid. i think to me it was more about the whole dollar amount. so if i sold something for 1k, why shouldn't stereonet have 20 bucks type of thing. that felt OK to me. i don't know how it went more broadly. i never ever stiffed stereonet at that time and i wonder what % of users did.

since then i have hesitated to post sales ads as one feels somewhat corralled.

i got an "offer" today. suggesting pre-payment of sale fee. this i did not find attractive. paying a premium price for the sale of an item that is not guaranteed to sell at advertised price is a non-starter. hifi gear is often quite expensive. i for example currently have about 50k worth of gear i want to move. handing over 500-1000 dollars to do that as an advance payment is not going to happen. a principle reason being the sale is not likely. more like a 1 in 3, 1 in 4 type deal. so a 1k cost at 1 in 3 chance of sale is a serious impost. 1k versus 17k or more than 5%.

if i were stereonet i would look at audio-markt. there is no better classifieds for hifi in existence. their fees are substantially less. i will continue to avoid stereonet because frankly the current fee setup feels coercive and inappropriate for a community forum. as it stands stereonet looks likely to both lose classifieds as a business and lose the community forum because the current requirements are onerous.

Feedback noted. Though not sure your sums align with how we do actually charge (note that Sellers Fees are capped). Also note that there are two options - Up Front or Pay on Sale. That is all outlined in the FAQs as well as when you post an ad.

We are well aware of what Audiogon (arguably the reference hifi classifieds site overseas, and yet we are more affordable), eBay, Audiomart (watch out for the scammers!) and other sites charge. This system has been in existence for nearly two years now. When we worked out our fees, we didn't just pluck a number out of thin air and say "this is what we would like to charge". We worked out our costs, and considered all the resources required to continue operating such a high quality, reliable, trustworthy, and curated system, and that is how our costs are established. I can assure you, it does not even cover the investment we have made into writing this system from scratch, and constantly evolving it.

With on average ~600 active ads at any one time, and nearly $50 Million worth of ads posted since May 2024, it's doing OK. But you have a choice. There is absolutely no obligation on you to post your ads here. But lowering our costs is not an option - we may as well just stop curating the Classifieds, stop account authentication, stop vetting each and every single ad, and stop mediating disputes, and let it be a free for all like Audiomart.

That, is actually the difference. Instead, in traditionally quiet times of the year, we will run promotions on Seller's Fees like we have done this week.

2 hours ago, mr_gray said:

is it safe to post critiques of a websites fee structure on that same website. probably not but here goes.

i have sold items on here. i did so when the payment was voluntary. i can't recall what % i paid. i think to me it was more about the whole dollar amount. so if i sold something for 1k, why shouldn't stereonet have 20 bucks type of thing. that felt OK to me. i don't know how it went more broadly. i never ever stiffed stereonet at that time and i wonder what % of users did.

I truly wanted to believe that most people did the right thing under the voluntary system. I don't have figures but I was truly saddened and shocked at how many people did not do the right thing 😞

I was also shocked at how many of the people who spoke about "community" were the same ones not contributing (to be clear, I'm not accusing you of that)

2 hours ago, mr_gray said:

since then i have hesitated to post sales ads as one feels somewhat corralled.

i got an "offer" today. suggesting pre-payment of sale fee. this i did not find attractive. paying a premium price for the sale of an item that is not guaranteed to sell at advertised price is a non-starter. hifi gear is often quite expensive. i for example currently have about 50k worth of gear i want to move. handing over 500-1000 dollars to do that as an advance payment is not going to happen. a principle reason being the sale is not likely. more like a 1 in 3, 1 in 4 type deal. so a 1k cost at 1 in 3 chance of sale is a serious impost. 1k versus 17k or more than 5%.

You won't need to pay 500-1000 dollars to list. As @Marc has pointed out, the fees are capped.

I know it can be hard to sell high value gear due to other factors than price but it's also worth considering that if you only have a 1 in 4 chance of selling then maybe the price is too high?

Also, the value of your items gets your fees to the level where "pay upfront" fees are the same as "pay on sale" fees (because they are both capped). So there's no savings to you by paying upfront. So your value proposition becomes more like 0.7% cost which you only pay if you sell. I never sell on eBay so I don't really know, but I suspect they charge a lot more than that

2 hours ago, mr_gray said:

if i were stereonet i would look at audio-markt. there is no better classifieds for hifi in existence. their fees are substantially less. i will continue to avoid stereonet because frankly the current fee setup feels coercive and inappropriate for a community forum. as it stands stereonet looks likely to both lose classifieds as a business and lose the community forum because the current requirements are onerous.

Being a lowly volunteer 😊 I'm not privy to the numbers but it feels to me as if the level of satisfaction with the StereoNet classifieds continues to increase. We have to deal with almost no disputes and the vast majority of ratings for sales are positive.