Upgrading my source

[Guest wusplay]

What are the rest of the components in the system you listened to with audiolab cdp ? 

[ck_ian69]

2 hours ago, wusplay said:

What are the rest of the components in the system you listened to with audiolab cdp ? 

 

With accompanying audiolab 8300a thru quads and later wharfadales (cannot remember the model though)

[pcking1624705747]

On 11/3/2020 at 11:19 AM, ck_ian69 said:

Hi, seeking everyone's advice here:

 

Current setup: MA GX100 bookshelves, driven by Cayin A88T. Source is Marantz CD6003. Speaker cables chord silverscreen
Listening area: about 4m x 5m

The Marantz is acting up, hangs randomly, and is pretty old. Thinking of getting a new CD player but with streaming getting popular, am open to new options:

Budget around 2500 SGD

Mainly listen to vocals, classic rock, and nothing from year 2000 onwards

 

1) New CDP outright - went to listen to Roksan K3 CDP, liked it a lot. Large sound stage with good separation, definitely a step up from my current CDP. Costs around 2500 SGD. Listened to Rega Apollo, but Audio 88 didn't really have a proper set up and unable to judge myself. Other considerations include Naim, Arcam etc
Any other CDPs that are within 2500 budget?

 

2) Transport plus external DAC - Thinking of audiolab 6000CDT. Well reviewed, but not heard it for myself. Would need an external DAC and thinking of using Bluesound node 2i (total cost of audiolab CDT plus bluesound will be 700 plus 700). This option only costs 1400 thereabouts. Plus the bluesound will be able to do Tidal streaming. 
This option 2 does enable me to upgrade my DAC later as well.
Does anyone know where to listen to the audiolab? And any comments on how the 6000CDT will sound when paired with bluesound node 2i as a DAC?

 

3) Repair my current Marantz for 200 SGD - cheapest option, but it does seem my CDP is my current weakest link. Am i right?
 

Since you are a physical media guy, I urge you to go and listen to the Rega Apollo again in the proper showroom.

 

If the player is not setup inside the proper showroom, I am sure you can request to have it moved inside to have a proper demo.
 

Once you are able to listen to it in a proper setup, you will find your answers. 

 

 

[blue_starfish]

If you are old school,  like me who likes to read the liner notes in detail and appreciate the album cover while listening,  simplify your life. 

 

Have fewer equipment and cables. Optimise your speakers, amp and CDP. Buy the best new CDP you can afford, or maybe squeeze a bit more. Link all up using good cables. 

 

Listening time just sit back and enjoy the music once a CD has been inserted and play button pressed. Forget about file formats, sampling rates, DAC type.

 

Dedicated CDP can play very good music even from the humble RBCD. Just don't do A/B comparisons. Go and listen to systems that are properly setup, and fed by a good dedicated CDP.  You will be surprised.  

[kinger]

4 minutes ago, blue_starfish said:

If you are old school,  like me who likes to read the liner notes in detail and appreciate the album cover while listening,  simplify your life. 

 

Have fewer equipment and cables. Optimise your speakers, amp and CDP. Buy the best new CDP you can afford, or maybe squeeze a bit more. Link all up using good cables. 

 

Listening time just sit back and enjoy the music once a CD has been inserted and play button pressed. Forget about file formats, sampling rates, DAC type.

 

Dedicated CDP can play very good music even from the humble RBCD. Just don't do A/B comparisons. Go and listen to systems that are properly setup, and fed by a good dedicated CDP.  You will be surprised.  

 

Just to add, play the type of music/song according to your MOOD in that day....

 

And WALA, everything sound so good....haha

[kinger]

Sometimes, we just "huan lou" in hokkien aka worry/think too much...

[blue_starfish]

Just to add. I am a LP person. As long as I start with CD, then go on to LP in a session, all is fine. Only when I start with LP, then go to CD will the CD sound mechanical and lacking in emotions and nuances.  Under critical listening conditions.  

[blue_starfish]

5 minutes ago, kinger said:

 

Just to add, play the type of music/song according to your MOOD in that day....

 

And WALA, everything sound so good....haha

Agree. Sip on a good wine or single malt whisky while listening too. Or if not into alcohol, a good tub of ice cream with music is  

[kinger]

Just now, blue_starfish said:

Agree. Sip on a good wine or single malt whisky while listening too. Or if not into alcohol, a good tub of ice cream with music is  

 

 

[jeromelang]

Am I the only person who has found the route to nirvana in digital playback to be able to live without listening to vinyl for months on end...?

Edited November 10, 2020 by jerome_the_lang

[joamonte]

16 minutes ago, jeromelang said:

Am I the only person who has found the route to nirvana in digital playback to be able to live without listening to vinyl for months on end...?

I only play steamer now, because CD need to change disc , steamer only need to touch my iPad 

[Boxerfan88]

1 hour ago, jeromelang said:

Am I the only person who has found the route to nirvana in digital playback to be able to live without listening to vinyl for months on end...?

 

You’re not alone. In a similar boat as you, I’m 100% digitalised, playing back FLAC files everyday. All my original CDs are in storage boxes

Edited November 10, 2020 by Boxerfan88

[kinger]

56 minutes ago, joamonte said:

I only play steamer now, because CD need to change disc , steamer only need to 

 

Millions of songs at finger tip vs 10 songs in 1 CD....round 1, fight! TKO or straight KO....

[jeromelang]

1 hour ago, joamonte said:

I only play steamer now, because CD need to change disc , steamer only need to touch my iPad 

 

Oh definitely, ease of use and convenience are important aspects of the entire enjoyment factor. 

 

Another benefit of steaming - as long as it is from Internet streaming services - is being able to get closer access to the original studio masters. But it depends on whether those streaming service companies were able to use their commercial clout to get record labels' commitment to use their real studio masters for the transfer to digital files. 

 

Think of those famous 70s/80s rock recordings whose myriad multiple commercial CD releases had already been in the market for the 25 years, and no one can accurately pin point which is the first pressings. Almost all the time, subsequent CD prints won't be able to sound as good. Playing subsequent CD prints won't be able to allow listener to really experience the full extend of those sound attributes that first print cds can provide. If the listener had missed out buying the first print CDs that many years ago, very often he'll enjoy the recording better if he uses streaming services. 

 

However there are cases whereby record labels allowed their music to be subjected to too much dynamics compression during the remastering or masters-to- digital file transfers. Indeed, there had been many cases like that where the dynamics were brutally squashed until the music lose their vitality and emotional expression.

 

Sound quality wise, streaming faces some extra hurdles compared to optical discs playback 

 

There is no consistency from track to track within the same album. A freshly selected track from a freshly selected album will sound great. But there will be perceptible collapse of soundstaging when the subsequent track from the same album starts. The same problem affect all optical disc players, but better optical players are able to minimise this issue till they are barely perceptible to even someone like myself.

 

I've found that to maintain sound quality consistency from track to track within the same album, I would have to exit the album, go to another album and select a track from there to play for just a few seconds, and then go back to the previous album and freshly select the next track that I had wanted to play. In the way the streamer will refresh its memory and allow the subsequent next track to sound optimal. This in itself is already a distraction of some sort, and it can't have help proper enjoyment.

 

2 alternative way

 

1st is creating a playlist of all the tracks in that album and inserting a digital silence track in between every song. The shortest digital silence track that I can find on Tidal is about 30secs. 

 

 

2nd method is find an album that has duplicate or multiple offerings that sound very similar in the streaming services. Create a playlist of with alternating tracks from both album offerings. This way the streaming is always exiting from one album to play the next track from another album, automatically erasing playback memory.

 

There is a reason why I would not even consider listening to music obtained from CD disc ripping. They never sound the same as the CD discs they there were ripped from!!!

Edited November 10, 2020 by jerome_the_lang

[ck_ian69]

I’m looking to enjoying best of both worlds. I need my CDs but some of the prints sound horrible. Even Adele 25 I can’t increase volume knob beyond 8 o clock cos the recording is so loud. On an Elton John 80s recording, my dial is usually at 1030-11 o clock

 

happy with my amp and speakers for now. Need a better cdp. So far, only the roksan k3 is able to pass my listening criteria. Max Budget 2500

[jeromelang]

31 minutes ago, ck_ian69 said:

I’m looking to enjoying best of both worlds. I need my CDs but some of the prints sound horrible. Even Adele 25 I can’t increase volume knob beyond 8 o clock cos the recording is so loud. On an Elton John 80s recording, my dial is usually at 1030-11 o clock

 

happy with my amp and speakers for now. Need a better cdp. So far, only the roksan k3 is able to pass my listening criteria. Max Budget 2500

 

You are out of luck. 

 

Adele's recordings on CDs were always compressed to hell.

 

Vinyl might be a bit less compressed, but not by much. 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by jerome_the_lang

[ck_ian69]

ya Adele 25 sounds really cmi.

 

If one is to use tidal, are the tidal masters sourced from the master tapes or is it just another marketing gimmick? And generally how’s the quality and variety available in tidal masters?

[jeromelang]

1 hour ago, ck_ian69 said:

ya Adele 25 sounds really cmi.

 

If one is to use tidal, are the tidal masters sourced from the master tapes or is it just another marketing gimmick? And generally how’s the quality and variety available in tidal masters?

 

Have you started collecting CDs of your favourite artists already for a while?

 

Do you make it a point to only/always pick up the first pressing made in the country/continent of where the artist's record label is based?

 

Do you know how to identify 1st pressing CDs of various record companies?

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by jerome_the_lang

[ck_ian69]

I don’t know how to identify first pressings but yes to your 1st two questions. Most if not all of my fav artists released their albums when I was prob less than 12 years old. 

 

[jeromelang]

If I dun have the first print CD, then I won't listen.

 

Listen streaming better.

 

If streaming no good, then listen YouTube(video).

 

I will never listen to subsequent print cd.

shorten your life.

 

The audio that accompanied YouTube videos, even though they are data compressed still sound better than the data that are encoded onto subsequent print CDs. However now there are a slew of youtube videos which are merely rips from optical discs with static pictorial screens or moving lyrics. Those i avoid. 

 

If I need an optical disc playback system, I'll go for a single chassis player as the first option.

 

If I have to have a separate transport/dac combo I will have to observe a few basic rules.

 

(1) never stack one on top of the other.

 

(2) whether using coaxial or optical cable interface, there is always directionality 

 

(3) the correct power up sequence is 

Player=>load disc=>read toc=>settle=>dac

Edited November 10, 2020 by jerome_the_lang

[zephyr11]

^^^^^^^^^^^


really?!?! so many steps? 

 

also cannot stack dac and cdp/ transport? can i ask why? if have to stack which one on top?

 

 

 

also generally i buy CDs of artists that i can't stream on tidal, which is not many, but usually chinese or asian.

[kinger]

On 11/10/2020 at 11:11 AM, blue_starfish said:

Agree. Sip on a good wine or single malt whisky while listening too. Or if not into alcohol, a good tub of ice cream with music is  

 

https://www.facebook.com/113005537014127/posts/190612862586727/

Edited November 15, 2020 by kinger

[Celebo]

If you have an existing bluray player,  you can use that as a transport and invest in a dac.

 

Later, you can always add in a streamer or play from your computer.

 

From my experience, the dac gives the most jump in sound quality. 

[stereoman2]

2 hours ago, Celebo said:

If you have an existing bluray player,  you can use that as a transport and invest in a dac.

 

Later, you can always add in a streamer or play from your computer.

 

From my experience, the dac gives the most jump in sound quality. 

As well as retain the preferred sound signature

Edited November 18, 2020 by stereoman2

[ck_ian69]

So my CDP finally died 2-3 days ago with "Sub Q error", no matter which disc I play, even if the disc is in perfect condition

While I slowly take my time to hunt for a replacement CDP, I have decided to get a Blue Sound node 2i with Tidal subscription, feeding direct into my A88T

 

Wife-to-be is asking if I'm crazy wanting to spend 4-figures on a CDP when no one listens to CDs nowadays.  

I cannot be missing out on streaming, and I have also not experienced high-res in MQA but better late than never, I shall see how the blue sound measure up while I continue my search.

 

My upgrade journey over the next few years will probably be along this train of thought, now that I have temporarily used the blue sound as stop-gap measure:

1) Get a replacement CDP

2) Get room properly treated, yes the wife has allowed me to have a dedicated room in the new place

3) Get a better stand-alone DAC to complement the blue sound if I really decide to continue with streaming

4) Decide if I wish to move away from tubes and go back into SS (shall see how everything pans out and sounds in the new room before deciding what is lacking)

5) If I do decide to go back to SS, then I'll reckon a change back to integrated amp. Pre power has too many possible combinations for my liking

6) I am currently still happy with the GX100, and I don't foresee changing speakers for quite some time.