Upgrade my LP12

[tesla13BMW]

As per title I am considering further upgrades to my LP12 and would welcome peoples views in consideration of what the LP12 is, what I'm looking to upgrade and what the rest of the system is..

 

Currently - 5 bolt corner braced plinth, Tangerine Audio Karmen top plate, Karousel Bearing and inner platter, mober SS outer platter, Kore sub chassis, Lingo 2, Ekos 1 with Akiva, Linn T Kable, Trampoline 2.

 

I am in the process of getting AS Silicon mushrooms to try.

 

Following Linns "inside out" philosophy I am looking to get a Keel and Radikal 1 (Akurate).  Yes I do have a budget!  Hence 2nd hand, Rad1 and not 2 and not Klimax.

 

So I'm talking 4000 GBP for the Keel and Radikal 1.

 

Now the dilemma - will the rest of my system allow the upgrades to shine through?

 

Remainder of system - DIY cinemag 1254 SUT, DIY Tubes4hifi VTA PH16 phono stage, Stereo Coffee pre amp, 4 refurbished QuadII power amps and stacked ESL57's.  Super tweeters and subs also. Cables are DIY solid silver in teflon 4 core braid for signal and Kimber 8TC speaker cables.

 

I look forward to peoples suggestions.

 

 

 

[andyr]

Jeez - 2 days and no replies, Chris!  WTF?  

 

I'll give the answer they're all dying to write: get rid of that PoS LP12 and spend your 4000 GBP (plus whatever pennies you get for the LP12) ... to buy a decent table ... like a Rega P8.

 

[SonicArt]

I half agree with Andy,   I would suggest an Origin Live table and arm combo though...

[Guest]

You're both wrong. Nothing wrong with a Linn LP12 and subsequent upgrades - it is a world-class 'table.

But of course not surprised when the replies are from someone who built a TT based on the "Terminator" (I'm looking at you @andyr !), and the other is a distributor pushing their wares.

 

@tesla13BMW I do subscribe to the "source first" principal irrespective of brand - make your source as good as it can be and you will preserve integrity and give the system the best chance to shine.

[SonicArt]

Pushing my wares

[tesla13BMW]

1 hour ago, andyr said:

Jeez - 2 days and no replies, Chris!  WTF?  

 

I'll give the answer they're all dying to write: get rid of that PoS LP12 and spend your 4000 GBP (plus whatever pennies you get for the LP12) ... to buy a decent table ... like a Rega P8.

 

Don't hold back!  Hold on, didn't you build a  LP12 to carry the arm you wanted cause there was no other table good enough?

 

Next you'll be saying vinyl is a PoS.

 

But, thanks for your thoughts.

 

[tesla13BMW]

1 hour ago, SonicArt said:

I half agree with Andy,   I would suggest an Origin Live table and arm combo though...

Hmm, Origin Power into an Origin Live table and arm - might be too much.

[tesla13BMW]

@Hydrology thank you.

 

But, is my current source already being held back.....or will source improvements always shine through?

 

I've always heard improvements to date. And when I listen to my pre circus, spot welded sub chassis and flimsy screw arm board, Valhalla, Ittok LVII it is easy to hear my almost Akurate LP12 is far better.

 

Soooo, would you be saying Radikal 1 and Keel or Lingo4 and keep the Kore and find Ekos SE? Or Radikal 1 2nd hand and 2k GBP to upgrade it to Radikal 2?

 

Orrrrr follow the Linn inside out philosophy and only once the most inside is as good as can be move outwards? That'd leave me at Radikal 2 Klimax? Then Keel once I grow my kidney back.

 

Where's that Crosley salesman to take this issue away?

[andyr]

1 hour ago, Hydrology said:

But of course not surprised when the replies are from someone who built a TT based on the "Terminator" (I'm looking at you @andyr !)

 

Sorry, H ... what is "the Terminator"?  

 

I designed my 'SkeletaLinn' to keep the 3 things I liked about my LP12:

• the Linn bearing
• belt drive
• and springs

... yet enabled me to mount Duc's 12" 'Univector' arm.  

 

(Although I have to admit that the current version of the 'SkeletaLinn' ... has very little "Linn" left!  Basically ... just the Karousel bearing and the outer platter.   )

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, tesla13BMW said:

@Hydrology thank you.

 

But, is my current source already being held back.....or will source improvements always shine through?

 

I've always heard improvements to date. And when I listen to my pre circus, spot welded sub chassis and flimsy screw arm board, Valhalla, Ittok LVII it is easy to hear my almost Akurate LP12 is far better.

 

Soooo, would you be saying Radikal 1 and Keel or Lingo4 and keep the Kore and find Ekos SE? Or Radikal 1 2nd hand and 2k GBP to upgrade it to Radikal 2?

 

Orrrrr follow the Linn inside out philosophy and only once the most inside is as good as can be move outwards? That'd leave me at Radikal 2 Klimax? Then Keel once I grow my kidney back.

 

Where's that Crosley salesman to take this issue away?

While I am familiar with some of your equipment list, I have not heard your system "as is", so anything said in an advisory role would be purely speculation. I simply cant somment on the synergy of your system. But as others here are suggesting "superior' turntables, then that would suggest to me a competence in the synergy your system can offer, and therefore imprvements to the Linn should bring sonic gains.

 

@andyr, the "Terminator" reference was to the skeletal nature of your monstrousi....errr....beautiful turntable....

[andyr]

7 hours ago, Hydrology said:

@andyr, the "Terminator" reference was to the skeletal nature of your monstrousi....errr....beautiful turntable....

 

You are a cruel man, H!  

 

But luckily ... I am no snowflake - so am not triggered.  

 

[Tasebass]

On 13/03/2024 at 7:20 PM, andyr said:

Jeez - 2 days and no replies, Chris!  WTF?  

 

I'll give the answer they're all dying to write: get rid of that PoS LP12 and spend your 4000 GBP (plus whatever pennies you get for the LP12) ... to buy a decent table ... like a Rega P8.

 

 

You forgot "1200G" Andy!!

 

 

On 11/03/2024 at 5:25 PM, tesla13BMW said:

 

 

So I'm talking 4000 GBP for the Keel and Radikal 1.

 

Now the dilemma - will the rest of my system allow the upgrades to shine through?

 

look forward to peoples suggestions.

 

 

 

 

Absolutely!!.....you already have the Karousel!..

Every time......& I mean Every time I've upgraded my Linn the rest of the accompanying equipment has benefit too....( Inc some DSE A 2667 speakers!! ) 

The 2 you mentioned a must IMO...

Key is set up...I've spent hours adjusting the suspension on mine and occasionally will do so to maintain correct level and arm board gaps exc which makes a HUGE difference irrespective of the innards used...IMO..

PM me if you wish and come have a listen to this....

 

 

 

cheers Tase.

Edited March 16, 2024 by Tasebass

[tesla13BMW]

@Tasebass thank you very much for your views.

 

I am familiar with a top flight LP12 having payed a visit to Linn when I was in Scotland and to Cymbiosis.  Admittedly that was pre Karousal, but, certainly showed what a Radikal and Keel had to offer.

On 17/03/2024 at 8:55 AM, Tasebass said:

 

Key is set up...I've spent hours adjusting the suspension on mine and occasionally will do so to maintain correct level and arm board gaps exc which makes a HUGE difference irrespective of the innards used...IMO..

 

 

From this statement I assume you do not use the Audio Silente Silicon Mushrooms.  Have you tried / heard them?  I think their benefit can only occur with a quite motor and drive system that has less of a requirement for the motor to be isolated from the bearing/arm etc.

 

Cheers, Chris.

[vivianbl]

On 11/3/2024 at 5:25 PM, tesla13BMW said:

As per title I am considering further upgrades to my LP12 and would welcome peoples views in consideration of what the LP12 is, what I'm looking to upgrade and what the rest of the system is..

 

Currently - 5 bolt corner braced plinth, Tangerine Audio Karmen top plate, Karousel Bearing and inner platter, mober SS outer platter, Kore sub chassis, Lingo 2, Ekos 1 with Akiva, Linn T Kable, Trampoline 2.

 

I am in the process of getting AS Silicon mushrooms to try.

 

Following Linns "inside out" philosophy I am looking to get a Keel and Radikal 1 (Akurate).  Yes I do have a budget!  Hence 2nd hand, Rad1 and not 2 and not Klimax.

 

So I'm talking 4000 GBP for the Keel and Radikal 1.

 

Now the dilemma - will the rest of my system allow the upgrades to shine through?

 

Remainder of system - DIY cinemag 1254 SUT, DIY Tubes4hifi VTA PH16 phono stage, Stereo Coffee pre amp, 4 refurbished QuadII power amps and stacked ESL57's.  Super tweeters and subs also. Cables are DIY solid silver in teflon 4 core braid for signal and Kimber 8TC speaker cables.

 

I look forward to peoples suggestions.

 

 

 

I’ve got a similar system to yours with the Linn LP12 (with Ekos1  Tonearm now Audio Origami PU7Ti)  and  specially constructed/ modernised ( by John Hall) Quad ESL57s.  Would love to hear your stacked ESLs with the added tweeters and subwoofers though!

Every improvement 0r tweak to the system was reflected in the SQ produced by my ESL57 speakers. These Speakers are very sensitive and reflect the system changes upstream and won’t hold things back. 
I have used a range of valve and SS amp with them. Currently using Audion 300B power amps/MM phono pre and SUT.

 

I’ve erred on the source first concept and found the upgrades to Power supply - Karousel, ARadikal and the Keel was musically very rewarding and hearing albums I’ve had for decades with so much more detail and subtleties I’d not heard before was very satisfying.

There is always opportunity costs in all these decisions, but if you already have the LP12 system you’ve got, Then a preowned ARad plus Keel  could be in the budget cap!

[andyr]

2 hours ago, vivianbl said:

Currently using Audion 300B power amps/MM phono pre and SUT.

 

Did we ever try one of my Paris head amps into your MM phono stage, in place of the SUT, Vivian?

 

[vivianbl]

2 hours ago, andyr said:

 

Did we ever try one of my Paris head amps into your MM phono stage, in place of the SUT, Vivian?

 

Andy, Well, You brought it with you to my place to install and try it out on my system. After listening to my system with the Audion/ SUT, you told me that the headamp would  not be any better and took it back with you! So never got to hear it.

 

I was left desolated.

Edited March 19, 2024 by vivianbl

[andyr]

10 hours ago, vivianbl said:

Andy, Well, You brought it with you to my place to install and try it out on my system. After listening to my system with the Audion/ SUT, you told me that the headamp would not be any better and took it back with you! So never got to hear it.

 

I was left desolated.

 

Hah - I must've had an off day, then!  

 

[tesla13BMW]

@vivianbl glad to hear you feel the rest of the system shouldn't be holding the LP12 back.

 

I have decided to pursue an ARadikal and Keel.  If the deal falls through I'll probably just do an ARadikal and stick with the Kore for a while.

[Warren Jones]

Here's my 2cents worth.

 

I've had an LP12 and a Rega RP8 both bought new. Neither TT was close to a stock Technics SP10.

 

If you're looking new I would suggest the Technics SL1200 or if used is your thing an SP10mk2 in a good plinth and you can spend the change on LP's

[tesla13BMW]

@Warren Jones I'm not looking to change tables, but, to improve what I have.

 

I like the LP12 and improvements are available, be it at a substantial price.  I want to keep moving towards the best of an LP12 and not the best turn table (no one will ever agree on that one anyway).  I still swap over to my mid 80's pre cirkus, valhalla, Ittok to remind me a modern LP12 is not the creature of yesteryear.

[Tasebass]

On 22/03/2024 at 9:54 AM, tesla13BMW said:

@Warren Jones I'm not looking to change tables, but, to improve what I have.

 

I like the LP12 and improvements are available, be it at a substantial price.  I want to keep moving towards the best of an LP12 and not the best turn table (no one will ever agree on that one anyway).  I still swap over to my mid 80's pre cirkus, valhalla, Ittok to remind me a modern LP12 is not the creature of yesteryear.

 

Well said!!..

[Tasebass]

On 22/03/2024 at 9:16 AM, Warren Jones said:

Here's my 2cents worth.

 

I've had an LP12 and a Rega RP8 both bought new. Neither TT was close to a stock Technics SP10.

 

If you're looking new I would suggest the Technics SL1200 or if used is your thing an SP10mk2 in a good plinth and you can spend the change on LP's

 

Well Warren...my 2cents worth...

first off your comment is the main reason i feel like giving Forums the flick sometimes.......read the OP question ....

And why do Technics FanBoys ( and others!!) at any chance given start a belittle reply to question pertaining to an LP12!!  

As @tesla13BMW asked recommendations and thoughts on "upgrades" cause that's what he wants....

 

I bought a Pioneer PLX 1000 to give DD a chance.......Great budget TT I thought.....But there's a problem....( for me anyway)....

So lets move up to a SL1210G and I throw on my DVXV1s.......yeah that should give the Linn i have a run for its money especially given my LP12 is maxed out so to speak...

After owning Both DD for a good length of time.......Guess what!!!.....IMO BOTH DD have the same problem though the SL1210G to a far lesser extent...

( BTW does the SL1200G have better specs than SP10??...Technics say so..)

Anyway my problem....

PLX1000.......can listen for about an hour or so then get bored...( mostly with a 2M Bronze/Black i should add...

SL1210G/XV1s.......stretch that to about 3 hours....

Linn......all night long...and then some...

Tase.

 

 

[Warren Jones]

@Tasebass my apologies for causing offense, none was meant...

[Tasebass]

On 18/03/2024 at 1:04 PM, tesla13BMW said:

 

From this statement I assume you do not use the Audio Silente Silicon Mushrooms.  Have you tried / heard them?  I think their benefit can only occur with a quite motor and drive system that has less of a requirement for the motor to be isolated from the bearing/arm etc.

 

Cheers, Chris.

 

No i don't Chris...I use Vinyl Passion Blue springs.....

cant complain...

Cheers Tony.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

On 11/03/2024 at 2:25 PM, tesla13BMW said:

"As per title I am considering further upgrades to my LP12 and would welcome peoples views in consideration of what the LP12 is, what I'm looking to upgrade and what the rest of the system is..

 

Currently - 5 bolt corner braced plinth, Tangerine Audio Karmen top plate, Karousel Bearing and inner platter, mober SS outer platter, Kore sub chassis, Lingo 2, Ekos 1 with Akiva, Linn T Kable, Trampoline 2.

 

I am in the process of getting AS Silicon mushrooms to try...."

 

I'm of the opinion that nobody should move-on from the LP12 till they have heard the massive difference - read game-changing sonic improvements - brought about by removing the LINN springs and installing the AUDIOSILENTE (or other) Silicone Mushrooms instead.

I see here that you were going to try the mushrooms.  How did you get on?