Sir Triode Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 http://turntabling.net/editorial/madness-the-most-expensive-replacement-record-cartridge-ever/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hergest Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The bloke sounds like a prize pratt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guru Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 potentially a candidate for a redneck audiophile. and wrong about the description of most expensive, it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Wallace Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 potentially a candidate for a redneck audiophile. and wrong about the description of most expensive, it's not. @Guru, I think you'll find, if you take the time to read the piece, that the headline merely questions the notion that it MIGHT be the most expensive. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Wallace Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Redneck? Now THAT amuses me greatly, but I suspect my ironic use of the term "high falutin" probably resulted in some cognitive dissonance. Also, someone else referred to me as a prat. I take exception to that, as I prefer 'wanker'. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hergest Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Redneck? Now THAT amuses me greatly, but I suspect my ironic use of the term "high falutin" probably resulted in some cognitive dissonance. Also, someone else referred to me as a prat. I take exception to that, as I prefer 'wanker'. Cheers! Pratt, wanker, whatever. Idiotic blog post regardless. I'm always at a loss at to why people who i would imagine were enthusiasts make smartarse posts relating to nothing but cost. It's like a car enthusiast making idiotic comments about a Bugatti Veyron or a Maclaren supercar purely because of the price of them. We would still be winding up our turntables and using needles to track the groove if cost was always the main concern. You turntablist guys would struggle to do your stuff with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guru Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Redneck? Now THAT amuses me greatly, but I suspect my ironic use of the term "high falutin" probably resulted in some cognitive dissonance. Also, someone else referred to me as a prat. I take exception to that, as I prefer 'wanker'. Cheers! i think it must have been combination of morricone soundtracks, coke sniffing and high falutin but i should have realised the red herring with the 25 yr old laphroaig rather than a jug of pappa's finest white lightening. glad you have a sense of humour. cheer,g. ps. have a read of the audiophile redneck thread on audio asylum, it's one of the funniest reads you will have this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JohnA Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'm always at a loss at to why people who i would imagine were enthusiasts make smartarse posts relating to nothing but cost. It's like a car enthusiast making idiotic comments about a Bugatti Veyron or a Maclaren supercar purely because of the price of them. Agree 100%. Seems to be the norm these days around here. I have my opinion as to why it happens, but i'll just keep it to myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal beat Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Agree 100%. Seems to be the norm these days around here.I have my opinion as to why it happens, but i'll just keep it to myself. Wouldn't be petty jealousy would it John? Personally I love seeing expensive hifi and cars, sort of aspirational if you have the $$ to afford. Edited January 27, 2012 by turntable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hergest Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Agree 100%. Seems to be the norm these days around here.I have my opinion as to why it happens, but i'll just keep it to myself. To be honest i've never noticed it here, there seems to be an appreciation of high end stuff. Vinyl asylum on the other hand though, when someone posts about a really expensive item you get people queuing up to make snide and snarky responses. I love reading about and looking at gear i could never hope to afford, be even better to get the chance to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Good Vibe Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I hope all this isn't about 2 Olympus carts TT or as said 2 Atlas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal beat Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I hope all this isn't about 2 Olympus carts TT or as said 2 Atlas. I doubt it GV. Only hrardcore analog idiots like us know how much these carts cost. Think more general, eg when Wilson come out with new $165k speakers and many negative vibes on price alone. Me, I am envious that dudes can afford stuff like that. Seems huge $$ on cars or boats is much more acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Triode Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 I doubt it GV. Only hrardcore analog idiots like us know how much these carts cost.Think more general, eg when Wilson come out with new $165k speakers and many negative vibes on price alone. Me, I am envious that dudes can afford stuff like that. Seems huge $$ on cars or boats is much more acceptable. Perhaps with cars and boats, there is more value to be seen on the item (where the value parameters are different). While with Hi-Fi, history has shown that being more expensive doesn't necessarily mean the item is better sounding or is better sounding by a large margin compared to cheaper competition, the one thing that the item should be judged for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal beat Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Perhaps with cars and boats, there is more value to be seen on the item (where the value parameters are different). While with Hi-Fi, history has shown that being more expensive doesn't necessarily mean the item is better sounding or is better sounding by a large margin compared to cheaper competition, the one thing that the item should be judged for. And what history is that? More value in expensive cars and boats? Compared to what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Triode Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 And what history is that? More value in expensive cars and boats? Compared to what? e.g. Sonic Frontiers equipment compared to competition. At least with cars and boats, there is more tangible value in said items. While with hi-fi equipment, if it sounds bad/doesn't perform, no matter how good it looks, noone wants a bar of it. e.g. E-type Jags are notorious for their (lack of) reliability, yet they are still highly desirable because of their beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redman09 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Pratt, wanker, whatever. Idiotic blog post regardless. I'm always at a loss at to why people who i would imagine were enthusiasts make smartarse posts relating to nothing but cost. It's like a car enthusiast making idiotic comments about a Bugatti Veyron or a Maclaren supercar purely because of the price of them. We would still be winding up our turntables and using needles to track the groove if cost was always the main concern. You turntablist guys would struggle to do your stuff with that. Wanker is no longer acceptable. Please you the politically correct term "Owner Operator" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundfan Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 e.g. Sonic Frontiers equipment compared to competition.At least with cars and boats, there is more tangible value in said items. While with hi-fi equipment, if it sounds bad/doesn't perform, no matter how good it looks, noone wants a bar of it. e.g. E-type Jags are notorious for their (lack of) reliability, yet they are still highly desirable because of their beauty. Bad example there I think. Sonic Frontiers was no more expensive than other similary priced brands like Audio Research, McIntosh etc, of the time. Do your homework, SF had some very well regarded hi fi equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal beat Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) e.g. Sonic Frontiers equipment compared to competition.At least with cars and boats, there is more tangible value in said items. While with hi-fi equipment, if it sounds bad/doesn't perform, no matter how good it looks, noone wants a bar of it. e.g. E-type Jags are notorious for their (lack of) reliability, yet they are still highly desirable because of their beauty. Not sure I understand the context of Sonic Frontiers as an example? SF was cheaper than ARC, cj and Mac, did not sound better and has been bankrupt for many years now. Every Top of the line Japanese turntable eg, Pioneer/Exclusive, Denon, Yamaha, Micro Seiki are all highly desirable, however unlike your Jag example are competitive sonically with almost all high end tables made now. The same cannot be said about an E-type Jag. Edited January 27, 2012 by turntable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Triode Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Not sure I understand the context of Sonic Frontiers as an example? It is an example of a cheaper ARC / cj ripoff which did not sound particulary great and has been bankrupt for quite a few years.Every Top of the line Japanese turntable eg, Pioneer/Exclusive, Denon, Yamaha, Micro Seiki are all highly desirable, however unlike your Jag example are competitive sonically with almost all high end tables made now. The same cannot be said about an E-type Jag. My use of Sonic Frontiers was to point out that athough an (expensive in it's time) line of hi-fi equipment can be reviewed by the major hi-fi publications as being good, doesn't mean it is. In answer to your initial question about history. High price doesn't equate to good sound but you already know that. And how much did these top of the line Japanese Turntables cost when they were new? Were they priced so high that only a select few could afford them? I believe, though they were more expensive than the majority of components in their time, they were not priced like today's ultra-expensive equipment (10 times the cost). By making that statement means you ascribe to the belief that, the SOTA in vinyl reproduction hasn't moved very far since these Japanese turntables were in production (early to mid 80s). If that is the case, is there a justification for the current turntables to cost $100K? Why buy one when you could easily buy a used High End Micro Seiki. I used the E-type analogy to show that there are other aspects to a car or boat that add to it's value. BTW, a company called Eagle in the UK, are updating E-types with modern brakes and suspensions and they can compete with modern cars. http://www.eaglegb.com/ Edited January 27, 2012 by triode12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JohnA Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 To be honest i've never noticed it here, there seems to be an appreciation of high end stuff. Vinyl asylum on the other hand though, when someone posts about a really expensive item you get people queuing up to make snide and snarky responses. I love reading about and looking at gear i could never hope to afford, be even better to get the chance to hear it. unfortunately i have noticed it a little too often off late. Its one of the reasons some people dont post their latest purchases on here any longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal beat Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 My use of Sonic Frontiers was to point out that athough an (expensive in it's time) line of hi-fi equipment can be reviewed by the major hi-fi publications as being good, doesn't mean it is. In answer to your initial question about history. High price doesn't equate to good sound but you already know that.And how much did these top of the line Japanese Turntables cost when they were new? Were they priced so high that only a select few could afford them? I believe, though they were more expensive than the majority of components in their tiem, they were not priced like today's ultra-expensive equipment (10 times the cost). By making that statement means you ascribe to the belief that, the SOTA in vinyl reproduction hasn't moved very far since these Japanese turntables were in production (early to mid 80s). If that is the case, is there a justification for the current turntables to cost $100K? Why buy one when you could easily buy a used High End Micro Seiki. I used the E-type analogy to show that there are other aspects to a car or boat that add to it's value. BTW, a company called Eagle in the UK, are updating E-types with modern brakes and suspensions and they can compete with modern cars. http://www.eaglegb.com/ Sonic Fronitiers was not an expensive brand. As I said they undercut the competitors, so the example is flawed. Unless you classify their competition as Nad. Why would one buy a 100k turntable? Probably a similar reason when buying a 300k ferrari. - because they can. Why is this a problem for you? Nobody goes on an on about whay a waste of money a Ferrari is, let alone six figure boats. I know which item would get more of my leisure time. Is a fully loaded 20k vintage micro seiki better than a 100k turntable. Don't know. I would hope so Do you know? I would hope so, however lots of people do not want to go through the hassle of funding a vintage micro seiki, or some uk company that does E- type jag modifications, especially if you do not live in the uk. The law of diminishing returns effects all these products as you go higher in price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Triode Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Sonic Fronitiers was not an expensive brand. As I said they undercut the competitors, so the example is flawed. Unless you classify their competition as Nad. Why would one buy a 100k turntable? Probably a similar reason when buying a 300k ferrari. - because they can. Why is this a problem for you? Nobody goes on an on about whay a waste of money a Ferrari is, let alone six figure boats. I know which item would get more of my leisure time. Is a fully loaded 20k vintage micro seiki better than a 100k turntable. Don't know. I would hope so Do you know? I would hope so, however lots of people do not want to go through the hassle of funding a vintage micro seiki, or some uk company that does E- type jag modifications, especially if you do not live in the uk. The law of diminishing returns effects all these products as you go higher in price. I don't remember their top of the line product undercutting anyone on the contrary, were more expensive than some of the competition - one of things they advertised heavily was their use of audiophile components (through their Parts Connexion subsidiary). Perhaps we have different recollections of the brand. I do know is they didn't sound good hence the reason why they went bust even with the boutique parts they used. Like I have said before, I don't have a problem with how people spend their money. But I do have an issue with companies who create hype and price items they manufacture that are clearly not worth the money relative to their SQ. Koetsu is one of them. "The law of diminishing returns effects all these products as you go higher in price" Exactly!...... Edited January 27, 2012 by triode12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal beat Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Exactly!...... And why is that a problem to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Triode Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) And why is that a problem to you? Because it makes the hobby silly. It is less about SQ and more about perception/status quo. Because we can't even have a discussion w/o having people getting their backs up defending their (or other people's) choices. Why are people so touchy about the subject of value? why is it a taboo subject all of a sudden? Do we have to always praise a component because it cost $100K? Surely, it must firstly be judged on the SQ and not how well it is built, how good it looks, what whale was slaughtered for it's ***** leather to cover the speaker cabinets. Edited January 27, 2012 by triode12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal beat Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Because it makes the hobby silly. It is less about SQ and more about perception/status quo. Because we can't even have a discussion w/o having their backs up defending their choices. Why are people so touchy about the subject of value? why is it a taboo subject all of a sudden? Why? Spending insane amounts on stamp collections or comic books seems a little silly to me - but does it bother me - not in the slightest. How would you know it is less anout SQ and more about perception? I know I have not said that. Have you heard a 100k turntable? Who said it was taboo or the subjecy of value was touchy.? I think you did???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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