So... turns out they were right about power!!

[mmv]

4 hours ago, Jhsg said:

I didn’t buy it initially. My local shop gave me one to try for a few days. I made the decision to buy it after a few hours. 

Good that they did that!

I took some gambles buying various products second hand. Not all make things better, just different. I think the better your components are the more you can hear all the differences, but likely get bottlenecks.

 

it's a first world thing however!

 

 

[mrbuzzardstubble]

On 26/06/2020 at 7:06 PM, misternavi said:

about 15-20yrs ago I heard someone used mercury as a conductor- now i'm not sure how they went about filling a tube and attaching it to a connector. Not sure if that person is still alive.

 

 

I paid a visit to an elderly  gentleman who was a member of the Melbourne Audio Club in the late 80's to make a purchase. He had a pair of Mark Levinson monoblocks hooked up to speakers with clear plastic tubing filled with mercury.

Edited July 4, 2020 by mrbuzzardstubble

[Steffen]

9 hours ago, mrbuzzardstubble said:

I paid a visit to an elderly  gentleman who was a member of the Melbourne Audio Club in the late 80's to make a purchase. He had a pair of Mark Levinson monoblocks hooked up to speakers with clear plastic tubing filled with mercury.

I’m sure it would have looked outrageously cool, but is there any other benefit of using mercury for cables? It isn’t a very good conductor, worse than iron, nickel, lead and even constantan, and similar to nichrome.

[tma]

Do 'power conditioners' show meaningful differences in measurements? All audio is is electrical signals, I'm unsure about what our ears are meant to tell us that measurements and ABX tests can't.

 

Quote

A widespread belief among audio professionals is that they are immune to the influences of brand, price, appearance, and so on. They persist in conducting listening evaluations with the contending products in full view. This applies to persons in the recording industry, audio journalists/reviewers, and loud-speaker engineers. This applies to persons in the recording industry, audio journalists/reviewers, and loud-speaker engineers. As this is being written, the 45th anniversary issue of Stereophile magazine arrived (November 2007). In John Atkinson’s editorial, he interviewed J. Gordon Holt, the man who created the magazine. Holt commented as follows:

Quote

As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me, because I am associated by so many people with the mess my disciples made of spreading my gospel.

(Floyd Toole, Sound Reproduction: Loudspeakers and Rooms, pg. 357)

[bob_m_54]

12 hours ago, mrbuzzardstubble said:

I paid a visit to an elderly  gentleman who was a member of the Melbourne Audio Club in the late 80's to make a purchase. He had a pair of Mark Levinson monoblocks hooked up to speakers with clear plastic tubing filled with mercury.

He sounds like a mad scientist, and probably related to the Mad Hatter, who also dabbled in mercury.. And we all know how that turned out... LOL

[Warren Jones]

On 03/07/2020 at 9:16 PM, Steffen said:

Ouch, I just hope your RCD is up to scratch.

RCD will not work as it's intended without the earth connected. Australia uses the MEN (multiple earth neutral) system. L and N go through the RCD to the device. N and E are then connected together MEN link in the DB. As soon as there is a fault ie short to chassis there is a current imbalance between L and N and the RCD trips.

 

Lifting an earth is not a good idea, if the chassis goes live you could die.

[Jhsg]

4 minutes ago, Warren Jones said:

RCD will not work as it's intended without the earth connected. Australia uses the MEN (multiple earth neutral) system. L and N go through the RCD to the device. N and E are then connected together MEN link in the DB. As soon as there is a fault ie short to chassis there is a current imbalance between L and N and the RCD trips.

 

Lifting an earth is not a good idea, if the chassis goes live you could die.

Hi Warren, thanks for the informative response. 

 

I suspect, based on my research, that the problem i am having is based on the tv being on a different earth due to the power regenerator. I spent hours playing with other things but couldn't get rid of the hum until I removed the earth pin from the tv. Now its perfect. BUT....... unsafe!

 

Do you have any ideas on how I might be able to solve my problem using another method? 

 

Regards,

 

John  

 

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Jhsg

[Warren Jones]

Is the TV is connected to the system by some other cable, HDMI etc? If this is the case then the issue is resistance in the 2 different earth paths. These ground loops can be challenging for an experienced tech.

 

Earth the TV to the power conditioner. You may need to try a few different things, does the TV have an optical output.

 

Failing everything buy a TV that is double insulated it will have no earth pin

[Jhsg]

13 minutes ago, Warren Jones said:

Is the TV is connected to the system by some other cable, HDMI etc? If this is the case then the issue is resistance in the 2 different earth paths. These ground loops can be challenging for an experienced tech.

 

Earth the TV to the power conditioner. You may need to try a few different things, does the TV have an optical output.

 

Failing everything buy a TV that is double insulated it will have no earth pin

Just had a look and turns out my tv is double insulated so I’m in the clear. 

[Pim]

Just now, Jhsg said:

Just had a look and turns out my tv is double insulated so I’m in the clear. 

I was going to say check the power cord on your TV. If it's a figure 8 connector the TV doesn't have (or need) earth. But that would mean cutting the earth pin off wouldn't make any change to the hum. 

 

This calls for more investigation. What's the TV brand and model? We might find more info in the manual.

[Jhsg]

I was just thinking the same thing.. will investigate more tomorrow. Thanks. 

[sir sanders zingmore]

5 hours ago, bob_m_54 said:

He sounds like a mad scientist, and probably related to the Mad Hatter, who also dabbled in mercury.. And we all know how that turned out... LOL

Mad as a hatter" is a colloquial English phrase used in conversation to suggest (lightheartedly) that a person is suffering from insanity. It is believed to emanate from Luton, Bedfordshire, in eastern England, where men in the area worked predominantly in the hattery business, which used mercury in the hat making process
 

[Addicted to music]

22 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

Mad as a hatter" is a colloquial English phrase used in conversation to suggest (lightheartedly) that a person is suffering from insanity. It is believed to emanate from Luton, Bedfordshire, in eastern England, where men in the area worked predominantly in the hattery business, which used mercury in the hat making process
 

I’d always thought mad hatters held wild tea parties that Alice bumps into 

[sir sanders zingmore]

1 hour ago, Addicted to music said:

I’d always thought mad hatters held wild tea parties that Alice bumps into 

I think the expression pre-dates Alice in Wonderland

[Steffen]

3 hours ago, Warren Jones said:

RCD will not work as it's intended without the earth connected. Australia uses the MEN (multiple earth neutral) system. L and N go through the RCD to the device. N and E are then connected together MEN link in the DB. As soon as there is a fault ie short to chassis there is a current imbalance between L and N and the RCD trips.

I think you’re contradicting yourself there  The RCD trips on an imbalance of current on the the L and N leads. If the poor power cable modder touches the live unearthed equipment chassis there will be some current going through the body into the ground, causing an imbalance between L and N, and the RCD will trip.

3 hours ago, Warren Jones said:

Lifting an earth is not a good idea, if the chassis goes live you could die.

I’m in full agreement. Circumventing safety measures, even in the presence of other measures, is not a safe route to travel. Let alone legal and insurance considerations.

[Steffen]

 

7 hours ago, tma said:

  Quote

A widespread belief among audio professionals is that they are immune to the influences of brand, price, appearance, and so on. They persist in conducting listening evaluations with the contending products in full view. This applies to persons in the recording industry, audio journalists/reviewers, and loud-speaker engineers. This applies to persons in the recording industry, audio journalists/reviewers, and loud-speaker engineers. As this is being written, the 45th anniversary issue of Stereophile magazine arrived (November 2007). In John Atkinson’s editorial, he interviewed J. Gordon Holt, the man who created the magazine. Holt commented as follows:

  Quote

As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me, because I am associated by so many people with the mess my disciples made of spreading my gospel.

(Floyd Toole, Sound Reproduction: Loudspeakers and Rooms, pg. 357)

 

I reckon this should be framed, and ought to hang on a wall in every listening room.

 

That said, dirty power is a real problem when if affects the DC rails feeding just about every piece of audio electronics. It is a problem with known and well-tested solutions, though, and nowhere near worth the mysticism attached to it. Also, its effects on the DC power rails can be tested and quantified easily.

 

Then again, if there’s good money to be made, any real or perceived problem is worth all the mysticism it can be milked for.

[Warren Jones]

8 hours ago, Steffen said:

I think you’re contradicting yourself there  The RCD trips on an imbalance of current on the the L and N leads. If the poor power cable modder touches the live unearthed equipment chassis there will be some current going through the body into the ground, causing an imbalance between L and N, and the RCD will trip.

I’m in full agreement. Circumventing safety measures, even in the presence of other measures, is not a safe route to travel. Let alone legal and insurance considerations.

No what I said is correct, the RCD must trip before someone touches the live chassis.  You do not want any current flowing through the body, 100mA for 2 seconds is fatal.

 

In a fault situation where the chassis is live E becomes the return path this causes the current imbalance between L & N and trips the RCD.

[Pim]

2 hours ago, Warren Jones said:

No what I said is correct, the RCD must trip before someone touches the live chassis.  You do not want any current flowing through the body, 100mA for 2 seconds is fatal.

 

In a fault situation where the chassis is live E becomes the return path this causes the current imbalance between L & N and trips the RCD.

It's actually either/or. Either Earth causes the trip or your body. From memory, RCD's trip at 30mA or 50mA on 'wet' (washing machine etc.) circuits in my home country (Holland) but here in Oz I think it's 50mA accross the board. If it takes 2 seconds for the RCD to trip, it's not doing it's job. Tripping should be instantly. The below video shows a Saw Stop. It works on the same principle as an RCD.

 

 

[Astrosound]

On 4/7/2020 at 5:55 AM, TerryO said:

That thing as you put it is a power regenerator, which by the way is not a power conditioner, your thing, if I understand correctly is basically a graphic equaliser.  How does your thing provide the ‘same effect’ as a power regenerator?

 

It anything your thing with it’s internal 100 to 240v switch mode power supply would benefit greatly from getting clean power from the P3.

 

cheers,

Terry

This thing is giving you studio effect, which make sense because rom is the one giving you "sound".

I have clear current through 6mm2 cables directly from power box. 

[caminperth]

On 04/07/2020 at 4:37 PM, Red MacKay said:

I still like to run all big current gear like amps straight out of the wall for better dynamics.

ymmv.

I've heard quite a few people say this, though when looking at my P10 with sources, preamp and mono power amps hanging off it the load barely gets past 45%.

I'm guessing it's due to transient or similar power demands? Though wouldn't this be sorted out by the caps in the power amps? 

Not disagreeing with the above thoughts, more curious about what is happening.