JBL - Project OLYMPUS MONS

[knight2001dts]

Now that I have your attention! haha

 

I'm a big fan of the JBL professional product, and especially their line of studio monitors of which I still own a few, and have heard many others during the years.

 

I'd love to put together something using the new range of drivers such as those used in the 4367 - something big - something bigger than Everest!

 

I love the extreme size and presence of the older 4350's and also the more manageable size of the 4435's.

 

What JBL drivers would you use in a dream cabinet if money was no object?  Would it be a double 15"?

 

Calling on those who have heard some of the higher end JBL models to make recommendations.

 

Will this project ever happen?  Probably not!!!  But i'd love to hear some opinions based on your listening experience 

 

I read with a lot of interest on another forum about the new 2216Nd-1 drivers - they are getting some incredible reviews!

[Darren69]

Crikey, will follow this one.  

[knight2001dts]

To get the ball rolling, I’m thinking double 18” drivers for the bottom end....crazy low end response to move some air and achieve the brown note.

 

Is there a better sounding top end than that found on the Everest? 

[A9X]

Knock yourself out.

This is well before DSP so it could easily be improved.

Edited May 20, 2019 by A9X

[Wozza_Lee]

Don't know many jbl drivers but faital pro speakers sound fantastic and have a big following.

There are plenty of guys who have measured them with very good performance (Troels etc)

My father has a 15" into a dayton compression horn that we both agree sound better than his old dynaudio floor standers.

I have been sort of thinking of a horn based system (heard lots, seems to be the latest thing and but until I hear my father's never really considered them).

I was thinking that a double 15 with a 2" p audio horn from 500-5000 then 1" dayton poly horn from then up would be nice. Calculated System sensitivity about 103db with 90* directivity in a 200 litre box with a f3 of 23 hz

[A9X]

The 4355 was really a big boombox.However, if you the equivalent 2020's SOTA sound, you can do better, but you'll have to define the characteristics you want in the design. Today there are better drivers (DR and CD) WGs, horns, modelling software and speaker topologies (for want of a better word) that make it fairly easy to eclipse a nearly 40yo design.

 

If you just want to impress your friends...

[A9X]

12 hours ago, Wozza_Lee said:

2" p audio horn from 500-5000

Which horn is this?

[Wozza_Lee]

Which horn is this?

There is a p audio horn that has a 2" entry loading down to 500

Then the dayton h07e above that

https://cannonsound.com.au/products/p-audio-ph-4528-2-inch-bolt-on-horn-same-as-jbl-2385

[A9X]

37 minutes ago, Wozza_Lee said:

There is a p audio horn that has a 2" entry loading down to 500

OK, I was dubious until I looked at the JBL spec sheet. The P.A.'s are pretty exact clones, at least my 2380s were. The performance though is going to be extremely dependent on the driver. Pity you're not in Sydney  or I'd have loaned you some 2445.

 

39 minutes ago, Wozza_Lee said:

Then the dayton h07e above that

No, just no. Go with the Dayton H6512. With the little Celestion screw on. This is a truly excellent flare and will be easier to integrate with the P.A. as there'll be much more overlap. Will cost maybe $US10 more.

 

What are you contemplating for the 15's?

[Wozza_Lee]

No, just no. Go with the Dayton H6512. With the little Celestion screw on. This is a truly excellent flare and will be easier to integrate with the P.A. as there'll be much more overlap. Will cost maybe $US10 more.
 
What are you contemplating for the 15's?

Haha I like the look of the 6512 but never head them.

Have heard h07e in a MTMWW with tg9 mids and liked it surprising a lot. Would only be used 5k and up

The faital pro 15pr400 mentioned in the other thread seems to be great and my father has one in a 2 way with the dayton h812 on top which is what started the planning of the horn build mentioned above

[A9X]

6 minutes ago, Wozza_Lee said:

Haha I like the look of the 6512 but never head them.

They're JBL clones and the original EWave flare. The polars are so good a certain famous designer got the irrits when they were published some years back. Cough *EG* cough.

7 minutes ago, Wozza_Lee said:

The faital pro 15pr400

Looks like a nice unit and at $A229 ea locally, can't really ask for more.

 

If you're going active, these would make a great 6th order ported, getting you a much smaller box and about a 33Hz F3.

[Wozza_Lee]

Looks like a nice unit and at $A229 ea locally, can't really ask for more.
 
If you're going active, these would make a great 6th order ported, getting you a much smaller box and about a 33Hz F3.

Yeah 100% active 8th order xo at 500/5000.

Size really isn't an issue on a duel 15" double CD horn speaker haha

[A9X]

18 hours ago, Wozza_Lee said:

Yeah 100% active 8th order xo at 500/5000.

And in my approach, you'd simply add a second order Q=2 HPF at 33Hz. Automatically protects from overexcursion below tune.

 

18 hours ago, Wozza_Lee said:

Size really isn't an issue on a duel 15" double CD horn speaker haha

It still is to some people, but they won't be all that large anyway.

[knight2001dts]

Thanks for the input

 

also calling on the likes of @kelossus and @44maloo and @jakeyb77  for your JBL favs - what works, what doesn’t, and what would you improve upon even in your favourite model?

Edited May 27, 2019 by knight2001dts

[Hifiplus]

This

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/k2.htm

 

[kelossus]

Calling the 4355 a big boombox? Thats ridiculous. Regardless of your preferences for newer drivers I can guarantee people would prefer the 2441 compression driver over many drivers at that respective price point. "Better" is purely subjective unless spending crazy dollars. Of course you could put together a system with modern drivers to eclipse the 4350's, that's a given but it will cost you.

 

In regards to legacy systems suited for the home listening experience the 250TI is the pinnacle. Would have been better had they used the 2108 mid-bass. That drivers is killer.

 

With the modern drivers would be hard to go past the M2's. Being able to DIY them is a bonus.

 

Greg Timbers has made some DIY 4-Way's using all JBL drivers. From memory he uses the Tweeter/CD waveguide from the 1400 Array loaded with Beryllium diaphragms. Its gotta be good hasn't it?

Edited May 24, 2019 by kelossus

[knight2001dts]

Thanks for the info!

 

@kelossus is there any link to the work Greg has done?

 

I'd love to read more about that project.

 

I have not heard the 2441 drivers, but I tell you what - given the JBL gear you have listened to, I'm dying to hear them now - and also a pair of the 250ti's

 

I workedas a technician for an audio wholesale/hire company for several years, and my bench setup was a pair of the 4425 studio monitors with a MOSFET amplifier - the sound combination I now find myself drawn to.

 

I have recently been listening again to some dome tweeters vs the horn drivers, and the sound is incredibly different....not in a bad way, but just different.

 

I have generally used MOSFET amplification with horn drivers to just take off some of the edge or the bite that they give me (maybe not others?)

 

What is your preferred device? Valve/MOSFET/BJT/other?

[knight2001dts]

On ‎24‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 1:43 PM, Hifiplus said:

This

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/k2.htm

 

Very impressive speaker and I would love to hear them - never had the opportunity

[kelossus]

3 hours ago, knight2001dts said:

Thanks for the info!

 

@kelossus is there any link to the work Greg has done?

 

I'd love to read more about that project.

 

I have not heard the 2441 drivers, but I tell you what - given the JBL gear you have listened to, I'm dying to hear them now - and also a pair of the 250ti's

 

I workedas a technician for an audio wholesale/hire company for several years, and my bench setup was a pair of the 4425 studio monitors with a MOSFET amplifier - the sound combination I now find myself drawn to.

 

I have recently been listening again to some dome tweeters vs the horn drivers, and the sound is incredibly different....not in a bad way, but just different.

 

I have generally used MOSFET amplification with horn drivers to just take off some of the edge or the bite that they give me (maybe not others?)

 

What is your preferred device? Valve/MOSFET/BJT/other?

Here is the link to Greg's DIY 4-ways. He also has a pair of Everest's.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?9951-Greg-Timbers-amp-DIY/page4

 

The larger 2 inch compression drivers are light years ahead of the smaller LE85's, 2420's, 2425's etc. Just an effortless sound. The speed and power of the drivers somewhat reminds of Yamaha's Beryllium mid-range drivers but better.

 

I run my 4350's with a 400 watt Krell on the HF section and a 450 watt JBL (its a rebadged QSC) Pro amp on the LF section. I run a tube preamp to take the edge of the horn. Had a quite a few preamps on demo as of late. Still haven't settled on a mainstay yet.

[ray4410]

i agree with chris, having owned from new a pair of jbl 250ti and a three way horn system (le15a bass driver- jbl smith horn with 2441 compression drivers and jbl 2405 slot tweeter,jbl crossovers,sure did kick arse and in a good way, but as in life all good things must pass, due to different circumstances and getting older have downsized but still listening to jbl 4425s.

[knight2001dts]

Thanks so much for all the info and sharing of experiences guys!!

 

Greg's DIY JBL's look incredible! 

 

I have to say I'm very keen to hear some 2441's now - getting a good wrap here!

 

How does the newer 15" LF drivers such as the 2216ND-1 compare to the old school LE15B? 

 

I'm thinking I'd love to hear a combination of the 2216ND-1 and the 2241 !!!  or 3 way with a 2405 or the like for some UHF?

 

The 2216ND-1's are apparently being used (audiokarma thread) as drop-in replacements for the LE15B in L200's (and some xover mods) to massively improve the bottom end and give new life to an already amazing sound.

[kelossus]

Have never heard the 2216ND-1 but by all accounts it would be light years better than any vintage JBL driver.

 

The LE15B to my ears was not a great driver. It really lacks weight. It is a snappy driver but doesn't thump like the 2231/2235. Also lacks deep LF extension. I couldn't get them out of my L200's any quicker.

 

If I were playing with a pair of 2216ND's it would only make sense to pair them with the D2430K's and make 4367 or M2's.

[mondie]

You might find my thread of interest given your questions. I have gone for a system that uses TAD and Audio Elegance drivers. I think the differences between many of the top drivers are quite minimal, Los has owned and tested plenty. I went TAD because I didn't want to die wondering

 

 

On 18/05/2019 at 3:18 PM, knight2001dts said:

What JBL drivers would you use in a dream cabinet if money was no object?  Would it be a double 15"?

 

 

[knight2001dts]

@kelossus - I would love to try the D2430K driver but I'm pretty sure they are a restricted purchase?  Can't seem to find them available anywhere...  Do you have a lead?

 

@mondie - WOW!  That's some awesome reading!!  I have not heard any of the TAD range of drivers, but after some quick reading around, the 4002 compression drivers at least are getting a good wrap when being compared with the likes of the 2441.  Might have to expand the search (God help me!!  I thought I had a line in the sand to guide me!)

 

@ZOOTYtooty - how do those 2360 horns sound?  Do you still have that setup I found photos of around here somewhere?  They look amazing!

[kelossus]

You just need the serial number from a pair of 4367's or M2's to buy them. I think you can buy them without this but they cost significantly more.