Home cinema room design/designer Victoria any recommendations

[warek]

Hi there

 

We have moved to a newer home in Wonthaggi, South Gippsland, Victoria, and wish to turn a garage into a dedicated home cinema room.  This will normally be used in the evening between 8 pm and 11 pm.  The usual number of movie watchers is 2.

The garage has concrete slab, uninsulated plaster walls and ceiling,  3 double wall mounted power points and a ceiling powerpoint.  The garage size is 7 metres D, by 2.9 M high by 4.6 M wide. The rest of the house is on stumps and the adjoining laundry  has a  floor height about 500 mm higher than garage floor. Roof is flat colorbond, 3 degree slope and will also be used later for solar panels. Planning a Dolby Atmos system 7*2*4 

 

We have a large collection of bluray movies and DVD as well as music CDS. Currently have no UHD players or movies, or UHD TV or projector. We value movie audio  quality as much or more than picture resolution

 

Equipment

Yamaha cxa 5200 processor, 7 channel Theatron amp, several old power amps, 2 pairs of Osborn F4 floor standing speakers for front/side and back surrounds, Osborn centre speaker, and Osborn Eptiome front speakers with extra bass set., 4 * 18 inch subwoofers (identical) , JVC HD Projector plus 110 inch LP Morgan about 15 years old. 2 pairs ol Krix Atmospheric ceiling speakers, B+W Dipole/Bipole speakers and a pair of bookshelf speakers, previously used for front present speakers . We have furniture for 2 viewers in cinema room. 

 

We also listen to quality music and have had a combined music/movie room up until now. Thinking that because new cinema room is removed from rest of house that I would setup the 2 channel music listening equipment in another part of the house, using Redgum amp, cd player and Osborn epitome speakers. 

 

Budget

Not sure what it costs but hope for range of 20000-30000 to get a design and renovate room., My initial plan is to get a design and then use quality local builder, plumber and electrician rather than dedicated expensive home cinema specialist builders. Is this realistic?

 

My current thoughts was to remove all plaster, insulate with acoustic batts or simalir and replaster with firechk plaster on walls.  Carpet floor, remove rear door replace with wall, remove front panel door and replace with wall including add split system air conditioner and  window. Mount screen on wall where shower/shelves are.  There would be only access to room via stairs into house through laundry.

 

Issues

I wish to have a dolby atmos setup with 4 Krix Atmosheric speakers, the mounting depth needed is  183 mm but I do not have that amount of ceiling cavity. Is there a cost effective solution to get more depth without adding whole new ceiling?  

I dont think noise isolation is a major issue, but I am not sure about this. I do have neighbours about 10 metres away, but will not listen to movies with loud volume or lots of bass after 11 pm. If there are ways to reduce noise and bass effecting the neighbours that local tradesmen can follow I would like to do this if within  my budget?

 

I have no practical building skills and will have to pay for all work except for painting.

 

Welcome any suggestions

 

Have a good day

 

Kevin

 

[Snoopy8]

Have a chat with BMC Hifi.  A friend had good success with them.

 

[Kezzbot]

The Krix Helix only needs 86mm mounting deapth and has a 6" driver, claims good bass response .

 

But would like to know pros cons between this and the Atmospherix myself as i need some more in ceiling speakers.

[Quark]

You should be fine with your budget if you're not looking for super sound proofing (i.e resilient mounts, furring channel etc).

 

I spent $4K in labour (chippies who removed old plaster, installed doors, built part wall, helped install insulation, put yellowtongue flooring on 2 walls and plastered) for a HT room conversion - details here. Materials were extra. When getting quotes, decide whether you want a fixed price or an hourly rate. I went with an hourly rate, as tradies tend to add a contingency factor when you ask for a fixed price - YMMV.

 

Given it's a garage and lower than the house, is the drainage good enough to avoid flooding in future? Don't mean to be a naysayer, but...

 

A few more random thoughts:

1. If you do decide to integrate music and HT I'd recommend a preamp with HT bypass e.g. a used Elektra Pynx or earlier equivalent. Most preamps will sound better than any AV processor/AVR.
2. Run some 40mm conduit in the wall and roof space for your HDMI cable (I'd recommend including a draw string and Cat 6 cable for future proofing).
3. Agree, you can go for smaller in-ceiling speaker as suggested by Kezzbot, or have your chippy build some small enclosures and mount on your ceiling.
4. You can download the recommended layout for a 7.x.4 Atmos setup here.
5. With only two seats in a good sized room, you may need some wall treatments to reduce the amount of slap echo / reverb, notwithstanding the carpeted floor.

 

Edit - also make sure the plaster and yellowtongue is screwed, not nailed!!

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Quark

[warek]

2 hours ago, Kezzbot said:

The Krix Helix only needs 86mm mounting deapth and has a 6" driver, claims good bass response .

 

But would like to know pros cons between this and the Atmospherix myself as i need some more in ceiling speakers.

I cant really comment as they are still in the box and i bought them on a recommendation from Selby at Hallam, I have no experience with ceiling speakers

 

Have a good day

 

Kevin

 

[warek]

2 hours ago, Quark said:

You should be fine with your budget if you're not looking for super sound proofing (i.e resilient mounts, furring channel etc).

 

I spent $4K in labour (chippies who removed old plaster, installed doors, built part wall, helped install insulation, put yellowtongue flooring on 2 walls and plastered) for a HT room conversion - details here. Materials were extra. When getting quotes, decide whether you want a fixed price or an hourly rate. I went with an hourly rate, as tradies tend to add a contingency factor when you ask for a fixed price - YMMV.

 

Given it's a garage and lower than the house, is the drainage good enough to avoid flooding in future? Don't mean to be a naysayer, but...

 

A few more random thoughts:

1. If you do decide to integrate music and HT I'd recommend a preamp with HT bypass e.g. a used Elektra Pynx or earlier equivalent. Most preamps will sound better than any AV processor/AVR.
2. Run some 40mm conduit in the wall and roof space for your HDMI cable (I'd recommend including a draw string and Cat 6 cable for future proofing).
3. Agree, you can go for smaller in-ceiling speaker as suggested by Kezzbot, or have your chippy build some small enclosures and mount on your ceiling.
4. You can download the recommended layout for a 7.x.4 Atmos setup here.
5. With only two seats in a good sized room, you may need some wall treatments to reduce the amount of slap echo / reverb, notwithstanding the carpeted floor.

 

Edit - also make sure the plaster and yellowtongue is screwed, not nailed!!

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Quark

 

Thanks for the response, I have visited your build, looks great. If you have time I have another option for location of cinema room and would welcome your opinion. Attached pic called floor plan. The rumpus room is 5.3 metres * 4 metres, plus 500 mmTV joinery unit. so 4.5 metres. I am thinking of removing the wall between rumpus room and study.  The study is 3.4 wide and 2.5 deep to the storage cupboards. The ceiling height in rumpus is 2.7 metres, but study ceiling and ceiling over tv joinery unit is 2.4 metres, both rooms have flat roof so need extra spacing for overhead speakers. I am not sure if changing ceiling height half way along room will effect dolby atmos ceiling speaker effectiveness. Any thoughts on this?

 

Also concerned that study is too narrow for large speakers, but I could possibly extend study wall 600-1000 mm into the room called workshop on the floorplan. It may be a load bearing wall,. Workshop was the garage I was planning on using in my first message. I could mount projector in rear of study and have front speakers spread across the wider rumpus room. 

I can see some benefits, in that I dont lose a garage, rumpus room has heating and cooling, insulated walls, carpet, easy access to rest of house , has windows , I can afford to lose study as an internal space as house has 4 bedrooms plus study and a second dining/lounge room.

 

My initial thoughts about doing this is that I would not remove plaster and replace insulation.  I would then have a large number of untidy power cables and speaker cables along the floor and walls and that the door to access bed 4 would be a bit of congested, and that I would have speakers in front of the window on North and the door leading to the deck.  The house is on stumps but under floor space in this part of house is less than 30 centimetres so getting underneath to wire up may be an issue.  Bed 4 is a spare bedroom and rarely used.

 

I am leaning towards removing study wall, not removing plaster or replacing insulation, perhaps not mounting ceiling speakers at first and not extending wall into workshop and testing room for a while. If it goes well, then extend wall , remove plaster, hide all wires, mount ceiling speakers. If room does not work out then if is a cheap option to put study wall back in and move to plan two, the garage/workshop area.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Cheers

 

Kevin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Quark]

I suspect a good part of the answer will depend on what projector model and screen size you want to run with. This is probably one of the first decisions you need to make in my opinion as it will set the parameters for the space you need.

 

If you can mount the projector where the TV joinery currently is, then if using a recent model JVC, you would be good for a maximum 125" 16:9 screen, without the need to chop into the study. The 125" screen would be tight for adequate throw distance and would be leaving just a few cm behind the projector. Presume you would run with a drop down screen if mounting in front of the windows.

 

Your sparkie/cabler should be able to lift roof panels and feed cables down your walls, whether for power or AV. Just leave the solar panel installation until afterwards.

 

 

 

[warek]

12 hours ago, Quark said:

I suspect a good part of the answer will depend on what projector model and screen size you want to run with. This is probably one of the first decisions you need to make in my opinion as it will set the parameters for the space you need.

 

If you can mount the projector where the TV joinery currently is, then if using a recent model JVC, you would be good for a maximum 125" 16:9 screen, without the need to chop into the study. The 125" screen would be tight for adequate throw distance and would be leaving just a few cm behind the projector. Presume you would run with a drop down screen if mounting in front of the windows.

 

Your sparkie/cabler should be able to lift roof panels and feed cables down your walls, whether for power or AV. Just leave the solar panel installation until afterwards.

 

 

 

Hi Quark

 

Thanks for the reply, will consider my options. Prefer to be inside rather than in the garage, and I think it will also be cheaper. I contacted a good builder I know and he has no time left this year. I have another contact to check out  later this week

 

have a good day

 

Kevin

 

[Guest Peter the Greek]

I wouldn't touch the garage, it'd affect resale value IMO.

 

....that said, its darn tempting....Build a riser where those stairs are, one great big bass trap. 

 

Presumably the ceiling height in there is higher too?

 

If you've followed any of my posts on this topic I'd say soundproof it, but that's up to you. $30k is probably about right - strip off the plaster, clip and channel the whole thing, two layers, done.

 

Another thought. That laundry is way too big IMO. Turn that into a galley and make the study bigger, put your room there.

[Krix Loudspeakers]

19 hours ago, Kezzbot said:

The Krix Helix only needs 86mm mounting deapth and has a 6" driver, claims good bass response .

 

But would like to know pros cons between this and the Atmospherix myself as i need some more in ceiling speakers.

Hi @Kezzbot, not wanting to derail the thread however this may help @warek as well

The Helix has a very shallow mounting depth of 86mm vs the 183mm mounting depth of the Atmospherix AS. The Helix has quite a small footprint (diameter) for the driver size, due to having mounting 'wings' instead of 'dog ear' type clips. This means they both have similar bass performance, even though enclosure sizes are quite different. To facilitate this bass performance, the Helix has a semi-open back. It is still able to keep debris etc out of the enclosure (foam damping covers the outer perimeter of the internal enclosure) while the Atmo AS has a completely closed off back box that eliminates almost all sound bleed into the roof space. This also then allows us to use a more sensitive driver, so the Atmo AS have greater sensitivity (90db vs 86db). The Atmo AS also feature a ring radiator tweeter that extends further with a bit more finesse, giving improved performance.

You can perhaps think of the Helix as a versatile and compact background music, overhead effects and additionally outdoor speaker, with the Atmo AS offering a bit more in performance as more of a main multiroom music and overhead/surround effects speaker for use indoors.

[warek]

3 hours ago, Peter the Greek said:

I wouldn't touch the garage, it'd affect resale value IMO.

 

....that said, its darn tempting....Build a riser where those stairs are, one great big bass trap. 

 

Presumably the ceiling height in there is higher too?

 

If you've followed any of my posts on this topic I'd say soundproof it, but that's up to you. $30k is probably about right - strip off the plaster, clip and channel the whole thing, two layers, done.

 

Another thought. That laundry is way too big IMO. Turn that into a galley and make the study bigger, put your room there.

Hi Peter

 

Losing the garage is not a big deal as the house has two garages, and the other one is larger, also there is a 3 bay shed out the back with rear lane access that can hold a boat, plus caravan plus 4 wd. The garage I am considering has a ceiling height of 2.9 metres.  But yes I agree the laundry is far too large, (laundry and study are 7 metres long), but it has 2 rows of benches with cupboards and overhead cupboards as well with ducted heating. It is a good place to dry clothes on racks in the cooler months if you dont want to use a clothes dryer. 

I have not read your posts on this topic, but I will  read extensively before starting the project.

 

RE big bass trap, I don't know if I need one as I have 4 * 18 subwoofers, as my previous house cinema had very poor bass and it was cheaper/easier to buy more subs rather than modify the open plan living/dining/kitchen that I was using at that time.

 

 

Thanks for your input

 

Kevin

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by warek

[warek]

1 hour ago, Krix Loudspeakers said:

Hi @Kezzbot, not wanting to derail the thread however this may help @warek as well

The Helix has a very shallow mounting depth of 86mm vs the 183mm mounting depth of the Atmospherix AS. The Helix has quite a small footprint (diameter) for the driver size, due to having mounting 'wings' instead of 'dog ear' type clips. This means they both have similar bass performance, even though enclosure sizes are quite different. To facilitate this bass performance, the Helix has a semi-open back. It is still able to keep debris etc out of the enclosure (foam damping covers the outer perimeter of the internal enclosure) while the Atmo AS has a completely closed off back box that eliminates almost all sound bleed into the roof space. This also then allows us to use a more sensitive driver, so the Atmo AS have greater sensitivity (90db vs 86db). The Atmo AS also feature a ring radiator tweeter that extends further with a bit more finesse, giving improved performance.

You can perhaps think of the Helix as a versatile and compact background music, overhead effects and additionally outdoor speaker, with the Atmo AS offering a bit more in performance as more of a main multiroom music and overhead/surround effects speaker for use indoors.

Thanks for your input but I have the Krix Atmos speakers and it would be a shame not to use them. If I was still looking for overhead speakers the Helix sound like  a better option space wise

 

Have a good day

 

Kevin

 

[Guest Peter the Greek]

9 minutes ago, warek said:

Hi Peter

 

Losing the garage is not a big deal as the house has two garages, and the other one is larger, also there is a 3 bay shed out the back with rear lane access that can hold a boat, plus caravan plus 4 wd. The garage I am considering has a ceiling height of 2.9 metres.  But yes I agree the laundry is far too large, (laundry and study are 7 metres long), but it has 2 rows of benches with cupboards and overhead cupboards as well with ducted heating. It is a good place to dry clothes on racks in the cooler months if you dont want to use a clothes dryer. 

I have not read your posts on this topic, but I will  read extensively before starting the project.

 

RE big bass trap, I don't know if I need one as I have 4 * 18 subwoofers, as my previous house cinema had very poor bass and it was cheaper/easier to buy more subs rather than modify the open plan living/dining/kitchen that I was using at that time.

 

 

Thanks for your input

 

Kevin

 

Multi subs will assist with a hole, but wont solve a peak, which you're going to have. Only a bass trap can tame that well. EQ is troublesome in my limited experience.

 

That door is in a perfect location. Walk in onto a riser with steps down off that into the room on either side. Ceiling height is great. 

 

Its a perfect space imo

[Krix Loudspeakers]

16 minutes ago, warek said:

Thanks for your input but I have the Krix Atmos speakers and it would be a shame not to use them. If I was still looking for overhead speakers the Helix sound like  a better option space wise

 

Have a good day

 

Kevin

 

Hi Kevin, sorry I wasn't trying to suggest not using the Atmospherix AS, more trying to explain the differences for Kezzbot. Do you know how much depth you have to work with in the ceiling cavity?

 

 

 

[warek]

1 hour ago, Peter the Greek said:

Multi subs will assist with a hole, but wont solve a peak, which you're going to have. Only a bass trap can tame that well. EQ is troublesome in my limited experience.

 

That door is in a perfect location. Walk in onto a riser with steps down off that into the room on either side. Ceiling height is great. 

 

Its a perfect space imo

Peter

 

Can you suggest some links for design of bass trap/rear riser. 

 

thanks

 

kevin

 

[blybo]

7 minutes ago, warek said:

Peter

 

Can you suggest some links for design of bass trap/rear riser. 

 

thanks

 

kevin

 

Think of it like a transmission line speaker enclosure, fill it with insulation and have a port at the rear wall. Ducted heating vents could work if you want to DIY it. I wish I'd done it with my riser, certainly will if we ever move.

[Guest Peter the Greek]

 

Use green glue instead of felt. Some practical photos in my sig link

[warek]

8 hours ago, Peter the Greek said:

 

Use green glue instead of felt. Some practical photos in my sig link

thx Peter

I have been reading your design thread, as some other readers said very impressive, makes my head spin

 

Kevin

 

 

 

[Guest Peter the Greek]

9 hours ago, warek said:

thx Peter

I have been reading your design thread, as some other readers said very impressive, makes my head spin

 

Kevin

 

 

 

Thanks Kevin. Its just one step at a time. I've said it before, but you can change gear or acoustic treatments after the fact. No one wants to rip walls down etc.