davewantsmoore Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Peter the Greek said: Will DEQX "correct" or "smooth" that out? "Doing" the smoothing it out is trivial.... the more complex question is which bits should be adjusted, and by how much (if any at all). A perfectly flat line is nice to see, but it's important to keep in mind what it represents (or doesn't). A single point in space, of all the sound summed over time .... delayed, reflected/diffracted sound from the environment. 1 hour ago, jkn said: I have done some setting this morning Good progress. You work fast Can you tell us, for the individual driver measurements ... how were they taken? I assume the microphone was placed close to each driver? If so, do you input any other microphone measurements into the DEQX for it to calculate it's correction filter(s)? Like individual driver responses at the listen position, or the overall summed response at the listening position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Does the DEQX sum and average out a number of measurement positions? @jkn whats the smoothing the DEQX applies to the measurements? can you change it like REW? (sorry for the pedantic questions, I've been toying with buying one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkn Posted September 14, 2018 Author Share Posted September 14, 2018 1 hour ago, CamSemp said: Just wondering if you coated the ply with a clear coat or something? Ok Sorry > the ply comes with veneer and also painted with clear 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkn Posted September 14, 2018 Author Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, davewantsmoore said: Good progress. You work fast Can you tell us, for the individual driver measurements ... how were they taken? I assume the microphone was placed close to each driver? If so, do you input any other microphone measurements into the DEQX for it to calculate it's correction filter(s)? Like individual driver responses at the listen position, or the overall summed response at the listening position? 3 Yes I need to as I have only a few days of work OK, you are right the 3 drivers measurements (3 WAY) are taken on an axis of the individual driver at distance 100mm Measurement for the filter is taken on axis with the tweeter at 0.8m As I mentioned (I think in this thread) I do not use close measurements for calibration file in multiple (driver) enclosures. Single box (sub) close measurement is fine. Edited September 14, 2018 by jkn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkn Posted September 14, 2018 Author Share Posted September 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Peter the Greek said: Does the DEQX sum and average out a number of measurement positions? @jkn whats the smoothing the DEQX applies to the measurements? can you change it like REW? (sorry for the pedantic questions, I've been toying with buying one) I don't think DEQX does a sum of the measurement positions you have to take them your self if you like. You can do smoothing in DEQX but as I sad before the scale and measurements /graphs look a bit different compared to other software Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkn Posted September 14, 2018 Author Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) Edited September 15, 2018 by jkn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkn Posted December 26, 2018 Author Share Posted December 26, 2018 (edited) Edited March 7, 2019 by jkn 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logarhythm Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Good stuff @jkn Do you prefer the scanspeak tweeter over the beryllium's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 On 26/12/2018 at 12:19 PM, jkn said: pictures Speaker looks very nice! What are you trying to show in each of the pictures? (I can read what they are ....but what are you trying to say about them?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkn Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 01/02/2019 at 9:42 AM, logarhythm said: Good stuff @jkn Do you prefer the scanspeak tweeter over the beryllium's? They are all good tweeters as I mentioned before however I do like the SS ring more then the beryllium version suit me better I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkn Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 01/02/2019 at 1:04 PM, davewantsmoore said: Speaker looks very nice! What are you trying to show in each of the pictures? (I can read what they are ....but what are you trying to say about them?) Thanks Nothings special in the pictures just a final setting and crossovers... I did change a little bit again since posting the pictures above !! Crossovers 2000/56db slopes Linear phase 250/48db slopes Linear phase 80/24db slopes LR max boost 6db in calibration templates/bass&sub Final 2 pictures time alignment between the mains and subs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wozza_Lee Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Wow they some steep crossovers, i love steep xo's but haven't gone that high (normally 24db/o) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkn Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) I have been using much steeper slopes like 108/96/76 for years but I think that if you use theses slopes you get more details and crisp sound however the sound it is no musical it just does not sound right (good but not right) when using lower slopes the sound is more enjoyable and natural J Edited February 7, 2019 by jkn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wozza_Lee Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 And here I was considering 4th order 'high'.I have been thinking lately about trying 8th order and I think that you just convinced me to have a crack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 On 06/02/2019 at 1:30 PM, Wozza_Lee said: And here I was considering 4th order 'high'. I have been thinking lately about trying 8th order and I think that you just convinced me to have a crack The sound of different slope XOs (assuming they all sum correctly, etc.) is really the sound of the 'off axis response'. Having a very sharp transition between two drivers, is a problem if their response at each angle does not line up. It can sound "clear" (because the drivers don't overlap, you avoid the issue where the drivers sum imperfectly) but also "wrong", or "unnatural" .... as you have at certain angles a large "step" in the frequency response. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike13 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 On 26/12/2018 at 12:19 PM, jkn said: @jkn these look ultra stylish. Looks modular like you could swap parts around or add more parts later. How many hours do you think you did this in? Do you sell your speakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wozza_Lee Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 The sound of different slope XOs (assuming they all sum correctly, etc.) is really the sound of the 'off axis response'. Having a very sharp transition between two drivers, is a problem if their response at each angle does not line up. It can sound "clear" (because the drivers don't overlap, you avoid the issue where the drivers sum imperfectly) but also "wrong", or "unnatural" .... as you have at certain angles a large "step" in the frequency response.Yeah but i will be crossing low enough that it wont have any problems, the drivers in this particular application are not even beginning to beam at the frequencies im talking and are used near field. Im certainly interested in any change that I could note in the character of the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkn Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Mike13 said: @jkn these look ultra stylish. Looks modular like you could swap parts around or add more parts later. How many hours do you think you did this in? Do you sell your speakers? Thanks swap parts yes and no ...etc you need the same diameter off drivers to swap it around If you like to keep the wood grain (matched) I do not sell speakers. I'm not sure how many hours as I did not keep any records however these were the most time/money consuming speakers I have made so far I do have 2 projects coming up soon project one build sub woofers on PAM tech (clone whise) I know and I read a lot In that regard- cloning whise but I will have a crack at it anyway project two I have bought Apogee ribbon panels which could be cross 500/750hz I'm thinking of OB with 2 18 or 15 bass drivers and the ribbon in the centre per side Not sure which drivers to used yet I know that AE making some good drivers for OB but they are a bit expensive for 5 pieces 4 in 1 spare .I think they are some pro bass drivers that will suit I just haven't had a chance to look/search for it any suggestion anyone ? Edited February 7, 2019 by jkn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioGeek Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 GR research paper cones with Rythmik servo amps can go to upto 500-700Hz OB. Heard them in a friends system overseas with planars, but you may need 2-4 drivers per side as they are 12inch. There may be larger versions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushroom01 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 On 08/02/2019 at 4:30 AM, jkn said: Thanks swap parts yes and no ...etc you need the same diameter off drivers to swap it around If you like to keep the wood grain (matched) I do not sell speakers. I'm not sure how many hours as I did not keep any records however these were the most time/money consuming speakers I have made so far I do have 2 projects coming up soon project one build sub woofers on PAM tech (clone whise) I know and I read a lot In that regard- cloning whise but I will have a crack at it anyway project two I have bought Apogee ribbon panels which could be cross 500/750hz I'm thinking of OB with 2 18 or 15 bass drivers and the ribbon in the centre per side Not sure which drivers to used yet I know that AE making some good drivers for OB but they are a bit expensive for 5 pieces 4 in 1 spare .I think they are some pro bass drivers that will suit I just haven't had a chance to look/search for it any suggestion anyone ? Are 3 - 4, 12" drivers per side out of the question? SBA 12" open baffle drivers may suit your requirements? http://www.sbacoustics.com/index.php/products/woofers/nrx/12-sb34nrx75-16/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 On 08/02/2019 at 5:30 AM, jkn said: project one build sub woofers on PAM tech (clone whise) Oooh. This is ambitious (well, would be for me, anyways). Please post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkn Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 On 13/02/2019 at 11:41 AM, Mushroom01 said: Are 3 - 4, 12" drivers per side out of the question? SBA 12" open baffle drivers may suit your requirements? http://www.sbacoustics.com/index.php/products/woofers/nrx/12-sb34nrx75-16/ Thanks for the info it looks good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkn Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 7 hours ago, davewantsmoore said: Oooh. This is ambitious (well, would be for me, anyways). Please post! I know what where you coming from Unlike all other driver/cabinet alignments (bass reflex, infinite baffle, transmission line, etc) this complex labyrinth of ducts and baffles physically changes the acoustic frequency response of the bass driver without affecting its electrical performance, a clever ‘trick’ that allows Whatmough-Whise to extract the maximum acoustic output from the driver while at the same time delivering a flat frequency response along with extremely low distortion. The concept is both unique and patented, but perhaps most importantly for Whatmough-Whise, it’s impossible to ‘reverse-engineer’ a PAM design in order to copy it, because the labyrinth is so driver-specific that you not only can’t substitute another driver, you can’t even substitute a driver with identical Theile/Small parameters. Only the original driver can be used in the cabinet. PAM’s 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamode Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 So, how do they sound?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkn Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) On 09/03/2019 at 8:44 AM, lamode said: So, how do they sound?? Hi Graham I'm not sure which speakers/project you referring to anyway if you asking about the original Satori project I have to say they are sounding really good I mean that are that good that I'm not in any hurry to start a new project .ETC I have made changes!! I've decided to go back to my bliesma tweeter after several discussion with people who are using the same product. Anyway what I have done this time is: 1. changed /adjusted volume output for the 3 way measurement to be used for calibration file 2.I have change the crossover point to 1250hz/54LP 3.I have rewired all enclosures 4.I have made new speakers cables and all jumpers 5.I have change amplification to tweeter and mid section here is link for a review if anyone interested https://hificompass.com/en/content/bliesma-t34a-4-34mm-alumag-dome-tweeter Edited March 22, 2019 by jkn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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