Guest callmez Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Greetings from Tennessee, USA! A search found this thread the other day, which I read with much interest. I first read about Lars' creation on the diyaudio forums a couple of years ago, which spurred me on to buying the ultrasonic unit I had been contemplating and then figuring out how to set it up as an RCM. Life got in the way, etc., and just a few weeks ago I started working at it again. Now I have a very ugly test unit, made out of odds and ends and operating with 6 C-clamps, miscellaneous shims and etc, but working! (If it works well enough, I can make it pretty later...) The idea I had back then was to build the unit such that the records rest on two rotating "wheels" the width of the bath, rather than stacking them on a center spindle with shims. I don't know if that's a good idea, much less the best one, but that's what I've done. I gather that the new & pricey Audio Desk Systemes unit, which only cleans one LP at a time, handles LPs the same basic way. Anyway, I'll post pics of my Rube Goldberg creation if anyone's interested. A couple of questions for Lars and/or anyone else who is using an ultrasonic unit to clean LPs... (1) could anyone offer some comments on effectiveness relative to specific types of "dirt"? I have not yet ramped up the isopropyl in my solution to the 1:6 Lars is using (no more than 1:10 yet, with a little PhotoFlo), and have run them only in 7-10 minute cycles instead of Lars' 30. So far it's doing a superb job on dust and dirt, not as great on oily fingerprints or anything crusty looking. Is it effective on these at a higher alcohol concentration and longer duration? Do you do any precleaning on areas that look like they might be problematic? (2) I've noticed that a lot of small fibers float on the solution's surface and wind up being redeposited on the records. These can be removed with a carbon fiber brush, but I was wondering if anyone had another idea. That's all I've got, many thanks to Lars and everyone else who has contributed to this thread! Mark Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sclalars Posted October 24, 2010 Author Share Posted October 24, 2010 Greetings from Tennessee, USA!A couple of questions for Lars and/or anyone else who is using an ultrasonic unit to clean LPs... (1) could anyone offer some comments on effectiveness relative to specific types of "dirt"? I have not yet ramped up the isopropyl in my solution to the 1:6 Lars is using (no more than 1:10 yet, with a little PhotoFlo), and have run them only in 7-10 minute cycles instead of Lars' 30. So far it's doing a superb job on dust and dirt, not as great on oily fingerprints or anything crusty looking. Is it effective on these at a higher alcohol concentration and longer duration? Do you do any precleaning on areas that look like they might be problematic? (2) I've noticed that a lot of small fibers float on the solution's surface and wind up being redeposited on the records. These can be removed with a carbon fiber brush, but I was wondering if anyone had another idea. That's all I've got, many thanks to Lars and everyone else who has contributed to this thread! Mark Z Hi there Mark! Sorry for the late answer, but I have been busy and have not been on this site lately. I'll try to answer your questions as good as I can. 1) Fingerprints are one of the worst things to get rid off on the vinyl surface. I often has to give them an hour or sometimes an hour and a half before they vanish. The vinyl is not harmed by this. One of my friends did a test on one of his "not that important record" and washed half of it for about 70 hours, just for fun, to see if any harme was done to the vinyl, but nothing happened, except for a very clean half;) The 1:6 mixture are also a well tested experience. (not tried the PhotoFlo though) 2) As you say, so have I noticed. You could of course try to rinse them in running water before drying them. But, I don't see this as a problem. As you mentioned, you just use your carbon fiber brush. And maybe before you put them in the inner sleeve? Fun too see that others has found this method useful! And, maybe you could post a few pictures here, of your creation? Cheers Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest callmez Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 (edited) Bearing in mind that I wanted to see if a different approach would work before investing much in anything beyond the ultrasonic unit, and investing extra time in making a unit as pretty as some of the others shown... Based around: Crest 575DA ultrasonic cleaner, purchased off eBay as a new scratch n' dent unit Cleans 7 LPs at once, supported and rotated by two grooved "wheels" at each end of the tank (no central shaft). One rotation approximately every 2.5 minutes. Power supplied by: junk breadmaking machine motor and gear system, turning an idler wheel on the inside of an old turntable platter, which is geared to one "wheel" shaft [Once I am satisfied with everything, I plan to track down a decent low-RPM, high-torque, continuous use motor and dispense with the "moving junkyard".] The "wheels" are mounted on 1/4" shafts. The base (red portion, which "drives" the LPs) is rubber air hose, the black portion is rubber heater hose (which "guides" the LPs) cut into short, even lengths on a drill press and with the nylon cords then pulled out, the black pieces mounted atop the red and the gaps evenly spaced. The shafts rotate on roller bearings in the supports. The two shafts are connected with a turntable belt (one wheel alone goes not get enough traction on an LP to rotate it, so both wheels must turn.) In the tank you will see a sawtooth shaped guide which pretty well keeps the LPs from moving side-to-side even if they are a lot thinner than the wheel's grooves. The angle of the teeth are such that only an LP's outside rim can make contact, even when inserting and removing. The piece of stainless steel rod you see is attached only because I didn't check the buoyancy of the plastic before I made the guide -- it's a sinker! Everything is mounted on a 1/2" plywood base, which is cut for a tight fit, slid on from the bottom and clamped to the top of the US cleaner with screen (door) mounts. The weight of the motor and TT platter is the reason for the shims on the drive side. The finished support will be built such that the US unit drops into and is supported by a frame. Probably one made out of cherry wood as I have a bunch of it. I've cleaned about 100 records with it so far, haven't done much listening but they look pretty good under 30X magnification. I am doing a quick postcleaning rinse by spinning the LPs in a separate tank, which helps to reduce the surface dust, followed by a simple air-dry (still thinking about the best approach to drying -- I like that centrifugal idea.) Advantages: The reason I built it this way is because I thought it would be nice to continually cycle through individual LPs as the unit runs -- pull one out, drop another in, go rinse and dry the one you removed while the other 6 continue to be cleaned. Also, you can easily let one LP clean for an hour if you want to, while you cycle less-dirty LPs through the other slots. Maybe you can even pull one out, see that it's still dirty, and put it right back in. I haven't really taken advantage of these yet as I'm still tinkering with the cleaning methodology, but maybe they're significant. Maybe not. Disadvantages: I think this is a more difficult approach to implement than stringing your LPs on a shaft and running them through in batches. Also, there is sometimes a small amount of side-to-side movement of the LPs, which could have a negative effect on cleaning ability -- but so far I doubt that it's a problem. Aside from the US cleaner itself, the only things I've had to buy so far are a short length of air hose, the screen mounts, the roller bearings, the valve for the tank drain, and a rusty old breadmaking machine. Some of the contributing junk includes a dead BIC turntable, a dead dot matrix printer (gears and one wheel shaft), an 8 track tape (idler wheel), and some other misc. parts and hardware I saved. Do I win some kind of award for recycling, or Rube Goldberg inventions? Mark Z Edited October 26, 2010 by callmez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3G_ Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 looks great callmez. Did you purchase a heated model cleaner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theophile Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Heath Robinson:All is forgiven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest callmez Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 I forgot to thank Lars for the input on cleaning issues -- thank you! I bought more isopropyl and will experiment with your 1:6 solution mixture. Don't know if the PhotoFlo I'm using is 100% necessary but I seem to be getting a good sheeting action and plan to continue with it. The dust being redeposited on the surface is less of a problem than an aggrivation. I'd like to find a way to skim the surface of dust somehow, but we'll move that well down the priority list. looks great callmez. Did you purchase a heated model cleaner? Thanks 3G, and yes the Crest is a heated model. I targeted this unit for its other features but have a notion in the back of my mind that the highly controllable heat may be useful in attempting to un-warp otherwise useless records. Future project, maybe. (two 12" round sheets of glass, four binder clips... naw, gotta focus on the task at hand!!) Heath Robinson:All is forgiven.A comparison I accept with pride! I actually shot a movie of it, but the file was too big and I don't have editing software. Besides, it looks like a mini carnival ride in operation and someone might get injured while rolling on the floor... Anyone have good ideas about a source for an inexpensive, low RPM, high torque motor capable of continuous operation? No point in fixing it up nice until I settle on a proper motor. Mark Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevyn72 Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 And..... Done! (well mostly anyway) 8-p With the delivery of the first cleaning spindle shaft the other day I was finally able to complete the last few construction details to finish my record cleaning machine. Here's a picture of the bare spindle shaft with locating bushes. [ATTACH=CONFIG]25100[/ATTACH] Once the cleaning spindle was assembled I was able to manfature the end bearing blocks, position and install the locating pins in the top plate and trim the shaft to it's final length. Records are threaded down the shaft in the same manner that you would place them on your TT. Spacing is determined simply by how many of the red perspex discs are used (I have made 40 all up). Here's a picture of the assembled cleaning spindle ready for loading. [ATTACH=CONFIG]25101[/ATTACH] Here's a picture of the loaded cleaning spindle (2 LPs) with the end bearing block in place. [ATTACH=CONFIG]25102[/ATTACH] And finally here's a couple of shots of the cleaning spindle in position on the record cleaning machine. [ATTACH=CONFIG]25103[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]25104[/ATTACH] Eventually there will be 3 spindles, one washing, one drying and the third being loaded/unloaded. So how does it work?...... no idea.... 8-p I still need to get the relevant cleaning fluids before I give it a go but I'll make sure I come back to this thread and post what the results were. It's been a fun little project, no to get some supplies and start cleaning! Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okydoke Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Looking amazing! A fantastic thread to be following - congratulations on your work and I'm looking forward to some results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sclalars Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 And..... Done! (well mostly anyway) 8-pIt's been a fun little project, no to get some supplies and start cleaning! Cheers, Peter And, you should be very proud of it too! A great DIY project IMO;) Cheers Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevyn72 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Thanks guys, I just need to find the time to head down to a supplier of reasonably priced isoproyl alcohol before I can actually give it a whirl. Hopefully it works as well as your experiences Lars as I have a lot of dirty vinyl I've been holding off having a proper listen to until I could give it a thorough clean! 8-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldandwet Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 who is a supplier of reasonably priced isoproyl alcohol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3G_ Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 I got 4litres from a moulding/casting supplier in Adeliade. About $70 from memory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theophile Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 I got 4litres from a moulding/casting supplier in Adeliade. About $70 from memory That's reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevyn72 Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 When I get the chance I'm heading out to these guys who have it for @ 2L for $28. 8-) http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=T3038 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emesbee Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Just one thought. Have you made a cover to fit over the top, by any chance? I just have visions of cleaning fluid getting sprayed all over the room! Looks good though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sclalars Posted November 11, 2010 Author Share Posted November 11, 2010 Just one thought. Have you made a cover to fit over the top, by any chance? I just have visions of cleaning fluid getting sprayed all over the room!Looks good though. Hi emesbee! I don't think this will be a problem. I believe he wants it to go as slow as possible. The ideal is 1 turn per 5 minutes, but I don't know what Peter has though. But I'm sure he's not spraying the room:D cheers Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevyn72 Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 Hi emesbee!I don't think this will be a problem. I believe he wants it to go as slow as possible. The ideal is 1 turn per 5 minutes, but I don't know what Peter has though. But I'm sure he's not spraying the room:D cheers Lars That's pretty much the case, unfortunately the 2RPM motor that was supplied actually runs closer to 4RPM so the cleaning spindle turns at a rate of 1 revolution every 2.5 minutes. The drying spindle turns at about 6RPM but hardly fast enough to spary water around the room! The only real potential for spray comes from the fans blowing over the LPs in the drying chamber but I think any amounts will be negilgable, if there's any at all. I will report back on this aspect when I finally give the beastie a go. (I hate it how earning a living gets in the way of playing with your hobbies.....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee Emm Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 I hate it how earning a living gets in the way of playing with your hobbies Amen to that Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sclalars Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Hi again! Is Peter the only one who finished his project? And Peter, how is it going, with your washer? Satisfied? Cheers Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wixy Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) Any updates Peter? I'm about to try ultrasonic cleaning this weekend for the first time. Questions: - where to buy distilled water in Melbourne? - what type of detergent to use (one that is easily obtainable)? - where to buy a low rpm (1 or 2 rpm) motor locally? Edited February 18, 2011 by wixy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Range Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I'm about to try ultrasonic cleaning this weekend for the first time. Questions: - where to buy distilled water in Melbourne? - what type of detergent to use (one that is easily obtainable)? My daughter uses distilled water in her salon for her steam machine Distilled water is available in all supermarkets and its not expensive FR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wixy Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 My daughter uses distilled water in her salon for her steam machine Distilled water is available in all supermarkets and its not expensive FR Thanks, I'll have a look although the supermarket I checked only had demineralised water. Not sure if there's a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrenW Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Any updates Peter?- where to buy distilled water in Melbourne? You should be able to buy pure distilled water from any chemist shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yamaha_man Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Come on Wixy! What's the word? Fill us in on the results of your machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catostylus Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 You should be able to buy pure distilled water from any chemist shop. Or service stations. Supermarkets, K-Mart and the like will have it in the car section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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