Why I Hate 3-d (and You Should Too)

[Owen]

As you say, not that many "ordinary" people wanted mobiles for the two main reasons you listed...

I never said “ordinary” people did not want mobile phones quite the opposite, every man and his dog would have had one if he could afford it, big difference.

Hmmm, I may not be the right person to ask. I paid $5K for a top model Panasonic tv 10 years ago, spent ages viewing tvs to see which had the best picture (in my eyes) in my price range, my theory was to buy something that will last while still having a wow factor for as long as possible. I think I did alright, until the last 3 or so years anyway. I may have spent more on 3D than I like to think I would, but I'm not on a short upgrade cycle.

You avoided the question, would you have gone 3D if you had to pay real money to have it rather than getting it for free?

I don't have much experience with Samsung so can't comment on how they were in the past. I do agree with you though, both brands seem to have a quality about them (at least in my sets) and if Panasonic are not competitive, or simply visually superior, they will not sell as many.

I very much doubt many people will find Panasonic's “visually superior”, Panasonic are in trouble unless they lower their prices.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Owen

[RedTed]

Add in Friday paper in Brissy: Panasonic 58" full HD plasma - $3393 (down from $4499 RRP). That's for a 2D model with only 12 months manufacturers warranty and delivery extra.

My Samsung 58" full HD plasma - $3100 (RRP $3499). Does 2D brilliantly and 3D with 12 months manufacturers warranty. My purchase price though included additional 4 year extended warranty, delivery and soon to be delivered...by redemption, their top of the line BD-C6900 3D Blu-ray player (RRP $599) with Wireless Lan built in, thrown in (not to mention the 2 free rechargable active glasses).

When I went TV hunting early last month I just wanted a 2D big screen TV.

Bottom line, having the additional bonus of the 3D experience in my home, when I want it, really didn't cost me any more than I intended spending anyway.

(BTW, my TV manufacturers of choice are historically Panasonic, Samsung and Sony, though not necessarilly in that order).

Is it a gimmick? Maybe. Will it last? I couldn't care less. In the meantime I'm very happy with my purchase.

[Guest]

I never said “ordinary” people did not want mobile phones quite the opposite, every man and his dog would have had one if he could afford it, big difference.

Ok, so we disagree. I knew plenty of older people who couldn't see the appeal given what was said about their early limitations, didn't want to carry around a brick, had alternatives and couldn't care less.

You avoided the question, would you have gone 3D if you had to pay real money to have it rather than getting it for free?

No I didn't, I indicated I would probably have spent more than $5K for my next TV and it needed all the WOW features. When they were advertising them last year, everyone I know expected to pay $6K (double the price of a normal one) and some people believed they would be $10K. Clearly if there was some tradeoff in owning a 3D set (poor 2D picture for any reason) I wouldn't have gone 3D, but 3D was the reason I upgraded.

I very much doubt many people will find Panasonic's “visually superior”, Panasonic are in trouble unless they lower their prices.

Almost certainly, but they still do have a better reputation and that might help them a little.

[Guest]

I never said “ordinary” people did not want mobile phones quite the opposite, every man and his dog would have had one if he could afford it, big difference.

Not really wanting to continue this pointless argument on an unrelated topic, but if there was a magic $50 3D upgrade for anyone with a current 2D tv - how many people wouldn't bother to have it in the next 28 years (given that's the age of mobiles, or 9 years given that's how old they were before starting to be popular) when there's likely to be some serious content available? Sure there would be a few, mostly hanging around this thread, but I do think you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Owen]

I wonder how popular mobile phones would be today if the cost of ownership was the same as when they where first released, not very I'll wager.

Same goes for 3D, everyone will be happy to have it as long as they don't have to pay a substantial price penalty over an equivalent 2D model. Samsung went one better and offered 3D sets for much less that last years equivalent 2D model and through in a BR player and glasses to sweeten the deal even more, obviously they consider the market will not pay a premium.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Owen

[Guest]

No, you're correct, I don't think the market will pay a premium - at least not one that is significant. Most people I know said so, which is why I said I'm really not the right person to ask. A couple of those people asked for a photocopy of my receipt when I produced it to them though! Another (the $10K dude) was simply shocked and said it's a shame he just bought a flat screen tv last year. Everyone agreed early on it was price that was the deterrent.

[Tweedledum]

No, you're correct, I don't think the market will pay a premium - at least not one that is significant. Most people I know said so, which is why I said I'm really not the right person to ask. A couple of those people asked for a photocopy of my receipt when I produced it to them though! Another (the $10K dude) was simply shocked and said it's a shame he just bought a flat screen tv last year. Everyone agreed early on it was price that was the deterrent.

I think you're right on the money bit.

As a common or garden man in the street, I held off for some time chewing over the different models and prices offered up to a year ago when the entry level for 40" or thereabouts Plasma/LCD anything to write home about, was in the region of $2500 +, and that wasn't a named brand, for that exotic beast you had to take out a mortgage, and a year ago in TV land is a lifetime.

The ball started rolling a month or two back when I bought a projector and had to make plans for the replacement of the current 32" CRT TV (more room needed in front for the screen) with a desirable 46" LCD, but anything around 46" was just ordinary at my price level of not mor'n a grand.

The 46" Soniq from JB at $998 was getting high on my hit list, but everytime I went to JB to salivate again, the PQ just wasn't pushing any buttons I could name.

Sure the picture was massive, but the resolution wasn't great, and the 47" Hisense around the same specs was the same, PQ wise, but three weeks back the Hisense 42" LCD LED 100HZ romped home at $1189, and long story short, with bugles blasting frantically and at full gallop I tore up to JB and bought the 42" Hisense, although it was a display model, ($200 off) last of the last due to model recall and stock sell out nationally, it still had imho an awesome display.

One thing's for sure, someone's got to pay the R&D, not technologically speaking, but feature wise, which is market driven by an ever and wiser gen public.

I think the old story of "it starts in Hong Kong for $10 and when it hits the shelves at your local showroom it's up to $1000 plus delivery" etc applies to all consumer products, that's why you can twist the arm of any retailer when the heats on, and getting what you pay for is hardly a guideline any more, otherwise $10,000 gets you gold plated bells and whistles, self blowing.

Named brands may sound good to the ear and give a modicum of comfort, but with 12 months wrnty for a top name product means the manufacturers don't expect it to last more than 12 months!!!!....for a top name brand....they must be joking.....the humble, (in many opinions), Hisense model I bought, is classified as a "cheepie", but it comes with a 3 year mnfc in home wrnty.....+ 2 years ext wrnty for $70....am I missing something here?

If'n it were a rebadged Singsome or something similar, but still unknown parentage, I might be a bit apprehensive, but 3 yrs in home guarantee it'll work....gotta be good for something.

Ordinarily, when you are reduced to browsing Ebay or the small retailer outlet to scrape the last dollar off the model you'd like to have but can't afford, and so take bargain basement look alike cheepies with unknown names, you probably would get what you pay for.

Kogan was high on my looksee list....but a lot of market bad publicity took the shine off....a word of warning certainly does do a lot of damage to the devious...... the pixel is mightier than the pen or the sword..... or the 'net exposure to public scutiny of reviews takes the lid off the can of the bulsh!t merchants worms big time.

Ian.

[ray888]

Sure the picture was massive, but the resolution wasn't great, and the 47" Hisense around the same specs was the same, PQ wise, but three weeks back the Hisense 42" LCD LED 100HZ romped home at $1189, and long story short, with bugles blasting frantically and at full gallop I tore up to JB and bought the 42" Hisense, although it was a display model, ($200 off) last of the last due to model recall and stock sell out nationally, it still had imho an awesome display.

Ian.

So its good? Am thinking of the 55" LED model. Saw it JB for under $2300. Is it edge-lit LED?

[Tweedledum]

So its good? Am thinking of the 55" LED model. Saw it JB for under $2300. Is it edge-lit LED?

Can't comment on the 55" model, haven't seen it, but the HISENSE 42" LCD LED 100HZ model (display model) I bought a week or so back, with 3 year in home mnfc wrnty + ext 2 yr wrnty for exactly $1120 total, pushed all my buttons, which is to say the resolution is very fine, even for SD DVD's, and the built in tuner is great too.

I think I must have prowled every local TV showroom looking looking but not deciding for months.

Watching the Tour D' France with all the movement showed no ghosting of the image, even at the end of the race when the riders are pedalling like blazes at 80 KPH.

I would go as far as to say that I'm very satisfied with the PQ of the screen, and probably wouldn't bother buying into BluRay stuff, not at present or until I've had a gander at the output of Blu Ray stuff compared to the Current SD output.

I can't comment on the free to air TV reception as my outside TV aeriel is a bit iffy, (25 years old) but SBS for the world soccer and Tour D' France was as clear as a bell on the HD channels, but the ABC HD and others are very pixilated at the best of times, although at times they come through clear and then break up, so it's a new aeriel for sure when I get a round tooit, and in that quarter I reckon to spend about $100 or thereabouts, certainly not mor'n $150 self install.

I'd have a look at the 55" model you've got in mind and if it looks good in the showroom with the ambient flouro light present there, all I can say is GO FOR IT, and if you can get a display model for bucks off with wrnty etc even better.....even the best will break down eventually, why pay top dollar?

I judge a TV PQ quality by the ability to define skin tones in fairly dim light scenes, and if you get good defined skin detail that is what you notice first, people always focus on the face as a central view point and any deterioration in that quarter is immediately noticeable.

I brought my 42" model home on the back seat of the car, but a 55"er would probably need to be delivered (extra bucks) unless youve got a ute or van etc and plenty of padding.

BTW, don't skimp on the cabling, that is use good quality hook up wire for the DVD to TV connection,........ component connections (red green blue) or S-Video or HDMI if you have the outputs.

The single yellow with red and white audio gives a crap picture quality.

Ian.

[ray888]

Hmmm....

Just got back from Shrek 3D at the movies and didn't have any headache or eyestrain whatsoever.

The MvA 3D on a Samsung LED 3D V at JB looked GREAT!

[Tweedledum]

Hmmm....

Just got back from Shrek 3D at the movies and didn't have any headache or eyestrain whatsoever.

The MvA 3D on a Samsung LED 3D V at JB looked GREAT!

Yeah I know what you mean, I watched the Alice in Wonderland movie in 3D, really cool, no eye strain at all.

In my opinion, the 3D stuff is at the same place as LCD and Plasma were when they hit the scene, at top dollar for the latest techno whizz.

As soon as the dust settles and sales get moving the prices will come down and also the technology will settle on a prefered format, nothing is certain in TV land, and if you can have patience, the end product just gotta match the present LCD/Plasma stuff.

I can't see the production lines being geared up to produce multi formats when by design changes the 3D screens should display all formats and sell by volume at similar to present prices for LCD etc.

I don't suppose it's possible using a standard LCD/Plasma TV to attach a 3D enabled set top box that would "convert" the display to 3D output, like Analogue to Digital boxes do.

The first manufacturer (not making TV's etc with vested interests) to bring out a STB converter for 3D will make a bomb.

Everyone with 3D in mind will want one, far cheaper than dumping the latest Something model for the Samething model in 3D. and it would make projectors 3D as well, mucho biggo screens.

Enter the real world, as you normally see it.

Back in the 70's someone proposed FM stereo radio, using two seperate mono FM signals, on different frequencies, to be picked up by tuning two radios placed at the stereo spacing as speakers are for normal stereo output.

This would have made convenient stereo FM or AM reception, without the need to have wires connecting the seperate radios, nothing more was heard about it, and I suppose the outcome, if it had been taken up, would have been a single radio with twin tuners and amps and wired seperate speaker outputs as per today.

Who knows why it never happened, Beta gave way to VHS in video tape recorders, and Blu Ray also topped the field in HD.

I suppose on that score, you could have 3D TV by sending out two seperate L & R signals, and using two seperate TV receivers, viewing them with binoculars and a piece of card to seperate the images......LOL......I'm working on it, even analogue SD could produce 3D, but as it's not too high tech enough, it won't take off, but one thing's for sure, if someone brought out something like this it would give all those CRT TV's a whole new lease of life....Yuccckkkk.......but it would still work for SD LCD TV's, even when they only accept digital reception, not very practical though.

It would be practical if a single TV picked up a signal that refreshed at the 200HZ rate, 100HZ per picture for L & R channels, and you used a pair of shutter glasses that synchroed with the signal etc.

Even non 3D viewing would be very hi resolution for fast sport mode viewed without the glasses.

Ian.

[CCRider]

I love 3d and my 3dtv

[Owen]

And you would still love it if it was 2d only.

[MLXXX]

Yeah I know what you mean, I watched the Alice in Wonderland movie in 3D, really cool, no eye strain at all.

As you may be aware, the animated parts of that movie were 3D, and the real life parts were simulated 3D. I think the potential for eye strain has been overstated but time will tell.

Always interesting to read your posts, Ian, but am not sure what you have suggested here would actually work:

I don't suppose it's possible using a standard LCD/Plasma TV to attach a 3D enabled set top box that would "convert" the display to 3D output, like Analogue to Digital boxes do.

No, it isn't. A factor with trying to convert an existing 2D TV is that although they may internally work at a high refresh rate (for motion smoothing) they won't accept an input signal at higher than 50 or 60Hz.

Back in the 70's someone proposed FM stereo radio, using two seperate mono FM signals, on different frequencies, to be picked up by tuning two radios placed at the stereo spacing as speakers are for normal stereo output.

This would have made convenient stereo FM or AM reception, without the need to have wires connecting the seperate radios, nothing more was heard about it, and I suppose the outcome, if it had been taken up, would have been a single radio with twin tuners and amps and wired seperate speaker outputs as per today.

Who knows why it never happened, ...

1. It would require double the number of frequency allocations, so you could only fit half the number of stations. This would be unsuitable in countries requiring a lot of FM stations. 2. The system developed, of using a high frequency tone modulated with an L - R signal, works fine.

I suppose on that score, you could have 3D TV by sending out two seperate L & R signals, and using two seperate TV receivers, viewing them with binoculars and a piece of card to seperate the images......LOL......

Tricky to set up and the two TV screens would need to be the same size. Using binoculars not ideal...

The mainstream method arrived at of using a single screen alternating between L & R and viewing with synchronised shutter glasses is the easiest and cheapest solution, assuming a person is actually ready to buy a new TV...

[Basil1503559642]

Back in the 70's someone proposed FM stereo radio, using two seperate mono FM signals, on different frequencies, to be picked up by tuning two radios placed at the stereo spacing as speakers are for normal stereo output.

This would have made convenient stereo FM or AM reception, without the need to have wires connecting the seperate radios, nothing more was heard about it, and I suppose the outcome, if it had been taken up, would have been a single radio with twin tuners and amps and wired seperate speaker outputs as per today.

Wasn't that Pioneer in the early 1960's,twin tuner Radio for AM Stereo.

Yeah all quiet on the 3D FTA TV front,interesting where it all heads in the medium term.

[Tweedledum]

I guess I was trying to invent a different type of wheel, no market for it if'n it don't fit any car made to date...LOL.

Back in the 60's there wern't that many AM stations on the radio, well back in UK that is, so I suppose band crowding wasn't a problem, anyway the AM stereo didn't happen and even FM stereo only went onto BBC channel 4 in the late 70's, which was a station dedicated to classical music, very sparsely listener populated, as opposed to BBC channel 1 which was a dedicated pop music channel.

One of these days I'll go and see a 3D TV demo, so far haven't been able to find anyone demoing one, when all else fails maybe I'd better pay JB a visit, at least they must have one, being the holy grail of audio visio common people suppliers.

At any rate, I don't think I'll be in the market for one just yet, still coming up for air with the new 42"Hisense LCD TV I just lashed out on, (spending the kids inheritence again), and the new projector and screen set-up.

I managed to find solid wood in my ceiling beams through the ceiling, without having to go clambering around among the cobwebs, so now the screen hangs on two hooks almost against the wall and comes down in front of the TV.

Only trouble is the display unit/CD/Video tapes/vinyl records storer is a bit too high, (1980's model), and the projection at 5M gives off screen top and bottom 4:3 display and I don't have a zoom on it to reduce the picture size, no problem with 16:9.

I don't want to move the projector, perched on a table and a couple of boxes for now, closer to the screen, so it's going to be.... move the screen forward to drop down in the front of the display unit, or.....get another lower display unit, more inheritence spending.

I'll have to check in the projector's menu to see if'n the display can be zoomed down a bit, like a PC monitor can be zoomed when you view Jpeg photos.

Even my old Cine projector had a decent zoom lens on it......hmmmmm, I wonder if'n the zoom lens could be retrofitted to the projector.....woaaaa......no bleeding way am I going to butcher the PJ, but it would be the answer to a maidens prayer, so many defunct cine projectors out there, just begging to find a new lease of life....hmmmmm...I don't use the cine PJ anymore......get outta here.

Ian.

[Selby Acoustics]

All JB's have demo's setup with sales staff who are sick of demo-ing and so will normally just hand you the glasses, point to a spot on the floor to stand and leave you too it. Perfect sales technique as far as I'm concerned. Bear in mind, due to the type of people going to see it, you will normally be presented with animation.

I think that 3D movies is just the tip of the iceberg and is more a litmus test to check out the public reaction. 3D gaming is where I think the major push will come. Which demographic has the highest disposable income? Which demographic are addicted to their controllers? And finally, which demographic have a constand need (yes yes a broad generalisation here) to outdo each other? Could the answer to all those questions be the 18 to 29 year old male?

Our generation has been taught to upgrade. It's just what we do. 3D is just our latest upgrade. It's what we'll do.

[CCRider]

And you would still love it if it was 2d only.

Yes ur correct

[shags38]

All JB's have demo's setup with sales staff who are sick of demo-ing and so will normally just hand you the glasses, point to a spot on the floor to stand and leave you too it. Perfect sales technique as far as I'm concerned. Bear in mind, due to the type of people going to see it, you will normally be presented with animation.

I think that 3D movies is just the tip of the iceberg and is more a litmus test to check out the public reaction. 3D gaming is where I think the major push will come. Which demographic has the highest disposable income? Which demographic are addicted to their controllers? And finally, which demographic have a constand need (yes yes a broad generalisation here) to outdo each other? Could the answer to all those questions be the 18 to 29 year old male?

Our generation has been taught to upgrade. It's just what we do. 3D is just our latest upgrade. It's what we'll do.

very astute post Kirily - the last 2 paragraphs were music to my ears. 3D Cinema and 3D Television are exactly that, the tip of the iceberg. When you get 5 minutes check out my site http://www.3d3d.com.au (very new, very basic but makes a point). Sony have released 3D Digital cameras in its Cyber-shot range; Panasonic have announced the upcoming release of a 3D Camcorder; Nintendo have announced the release of the 3DS Gaming console (3D - no glasses required) available at end of August this year; 3D Computers and 3D Monitors are in "gear up for production" mode around the globe.

Just wait till we all have a 3D Computer in front of us - watch movies, play games, view 3D images from our 3D camera - the possibilities are endless. (3D in cars and other transport including planes, buses, trains etc - 3D Digital Picture Frames on the wall at home or on the desk at work - 3D Phones, Samsung will be releasing one before March 2011 - 3D medical imaging on a more accessible level - 3d maps - 3d stamps - the list goes on and on. The technology is developing at a fast rate, driven by a hungry consumer market - like you said, a generation of hitech upgraders.

Part of my internet marketing business incorporates trading in web domain names - I have over 1,850 3D product specific domain names, I'm hooked. And so is the public - a local to me small cinema complex recently upgraded four (4) cinemas to digital 3D capability at a cost of $100k each and they are about to upgrade 4 more, 3D movies are bringing people in by the droves according to the cinema manager I spoke with.

Imagine the stampede when smartphones are available with 3D capabilities (screen and camera) - it will make the rush for the iPhone4 look like a stroll in the park.

Nice to meet another "believer"

cheers,

Mike

[yamapro]

The only 3d experience that interests me is real life

I'm in the 18-29yo male category, have disposable income (although trying more now than ever to put it to better use than disposing of it...) and am more onclined to wax my cash on toys than most of the people i know, younger and older and even I cannot be convinced of the merrit of donning glasses to sit in my own lounge room

I can see some potential in 3d gaming (although not for me) but still see it as nothing more than a flash in the pan...

Just my 2c

[Tweedledum]

The only 3d experience that interests me is real life

I'm in the 18-29yo male category, have disposable income (although trying more now than ever to put it to better use than disposing of it...) and am more onclined to wax my cash on toys than most of the people i know, younger and older and even I cannot be convinced of the merrit of donning glasses to sit in my own lounge room

I can see some potential in 3d gaming (although not for me) but still see it as nothing more than a flash in the pan...

Just my 2c

Hi, if JB are demoing 3D with glasses on offer, WYSIWYG, or what you see is what you are going to get....can't see the major TV mnf's changing the format when there is already a format out there being used and approved by the gen public.

I can't see what the problem is with the Cinema type specs, they're just like ordinary prescription glasses, although with cheap plastic frames, but still not too obtrusive for sitting and watching a 2 hour movie, heck, I sit and watch TV at home for 4 hours at a stretch with ordinary specs on, no bother, same would go for the average spectacle wearer.

The biggest stumbling block will be new movies in 3D, and unless they can keep up with the demand, the movie houses will pretty soon cease to run 3D, however if they can run 2D movies with the same equipment, no problem, same as it was in the days when CINEMASCOPE hit the screens, not all movies then were made in C'scope, and there were lots then that were still in black and white too.

BTW, I wear glasses to view distant objects like movies and TV etc, and I am toying with the idea of adapting a pair of 3D glasses (total destruction etc, just need the lenses) to be able to "clip on" to my existing glasses.

Some time back I bought a pair of clip on sunglasses that attach to your existing prescription glasses and swing up out of the way when not in use, but never use them as I only wear glasses when driving at night, (irises wide open, blurred vision), and not during the day in sunlight, so clip on sun glasses are not required, but I might modify them to take the 3D lenses to clip on my theatre glasses, problem solved.

Anybody want to get in on the 3D ground floor and strike while the iron is hot?

How about a line of trendy 3D glasses for when you are out with the crowd and want to impress, all it takes is a cool pair of OPSM, Budget Specs or whatever frames, and the lenses from 3D specs fitted, but if'n you're really tight with money, you could adapt a pair of cheap reading glasses as sold by Reject shop et al, for about $5.

I think this thread should be retitled, "Why I have mixed feelings about 3D" as most on here are for 3D in it's present form, TV or Cinema format.

Ian.

[Selby Acoustics]

The only 3d experience that interests me is real life

I'm in the 18-29yo male category, have disposable income (although trying more now than ever to put it to better use than disposing of it...) and am more onclined to wax my cash on toys than most of the people i know, younger and older and even I cannot be convinced of the merrit of donning glasses to sit in my own lounge room

I can see some potential in 3d gaming (although not for me) but still see it as nothing more than a flash in the pan...

Just my 2c

I actually agree with most of what you say. I can't see me bothering with it myself. I have yet to upgrade my TV from my little CRT with only a RF input and (shock horror!) NO REMOTE! When/if I upgrade, 3D won't be my major consideration but if it's an added bonus I'll maybe spend a couple of hours watching a few movies and agree how great it all is and how smart I was to finally upgrade.

I am a girl so I'm not really into the gaming side of things but after working in the AV arena for 10 years, I could name 100 people I work with who have already upgraded waiting for the huge gaming rush.

However, due to the broader implications of the technology I think it is here to stay. The technology is not too different to build and so the infrastructure is already there. Major players don't need to invest too much in R&D, tooling changes are at a minimum and the stock pile of ready made panels are already sitting there ready for 3D. Why not use it?

[Tweedledum]

I actually agree with most of what you say. I can't see me bothering with it myself. I have yet to upgrade my TV from my little CRT with only a RF input and (shock horror!) NO REMOTE! When/if I upgrade, 3D won't be my major consideration but if it's an added bonus I'll maybe spend a couple of hours watching a few movies and agree how great it all is and how smart I was to finally upgrade.

I am a girl so I'm not really into the gaming side of things but after working in the AV arena for 10 years, I could name 100 people I work with who have already upgraded waiting for the huge gaming rush.

However, due to the broader implications of the technology I think it is here to stay. The technology is not too different to build and so the infrastructure is already there. Major players don't need to invest too much in R&D, tooling changes are at a minimum and the stock pile of ready made panels are already sitting there ready for 3D. Why not use it?

Hi, does that mean that we might see a 3D set top box on top of the HD set top box on top of the digital set top box, on top of the DVD recorder on top of the 2 terrabyte HDD, I think I need a new TV display unit....LOL.

What I would like to see, (on Ebay of course, 'cos it's a bit cheaper and you get lots of info), is a set top box, all in one, that tunes HD digital 3D signals and has a USB output to record to a HDD, with a DVD Blu Ray burner/player, region free or a code to make it so, for around $200.

I could probably dispense with the Blu Ray part if'n I could get a B/R burner to go into my PC, and burn from the portable HDD to DVD.

I think Blu Ray DVD recorders at the moment are around the $800 mark alone so there's a long way to go yet for an all in one.

BTW, (just joking), girls end at 16, and ladies start there, so if you have 10 years in the AV industry you must have been 5 Years old when you started and therefore were a child worker.....No?........but I remember when I got my first bedside radio that I was 8 years old, and it didn't have a casing, just a chasis with valves glowing and a speaker attached to the wall by a nail.

It was prety shocking if you touched the wrong bit when tuning...LOL, but in the end my father suggested we box it in, so we fitted it into an old cardboard shoe box, that almost caught fire one day.

We had great fun using a single earphone from a telephone handpiece that we "found" in a telephone box, but the bare copper speaker wires made the sound a bit scratchy.

In spite of that early experience I never went into the AV industry.

Ian.

[Struggo]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink

Pretty much sums up 3D at the moment, esp with plenty of hardware, but no library.

The consumer will decide, not the manufacturers.

[Matt_Walker]

The consumer will decide, not the manufacturers.

Correct!

And this consumer is still raving about Motorstorm 3D and Wipeout 3D.

Can I tell you how much I love my 3D TV