ADDENDUM - confession

With all 2 CH, in the main system here a second output from the preamp feeds back into the Meridian 861 -> synthesised surround sound through the other 5 channels. This means the main output volume is controlled by the Marantz while the Meridian surround output (with the choice of a variety of DSPs) is controlled from it. Both have been grafted on to a Home Theatre Master MX700 Universal remote with various macros to tame the otherwise unwieldy system.

I hesitated to confess this before because I know many audio purists decry the "pollution" of pristine 2 CH with surround sound "garbage".

In defense let me say that the "garbage" is well and truly controllable and set for subtle ambience, not "in the middle of the players" type sound (which some ghastly DVD-A discs here have). Trust me, it is effective and all visitors have preferred it on rather than off so it is not just my insanity!

Confession over. I await the punishment!

John

Hi john

I'm not laughing, in fact a little bee has just flown into my bonnet recently and I'm more than a little curious.

Another commercial type thing in this area is called logic seven or something???

Anyone else had experience with this type of set-up? A mate of mine works in a hi-fi shop and has experience, don't know which he's heard but he hates it. Still, my curiosity is piqued.

I did look up logic 7 on the net, and a great hulking receiver looking thing came up, but I wouldn't be the bit interested in something like that.

As an experiment that would not cost much at all (in the link he talks about the yamaha YDP2006) I'm sure the Behringer dcx 2496 would be an acceptable substitute (I have one that's all, so cheap). If the prelim tests were a good result, I'd have to get another one to have two speakers to the rear (hard to explain so won't bother) but hey, worth finding these things out.

Rod you will be chuffed to know this link came from Mr Linkwitz' site, some mighty good stuff over there.

http://www.mlssa.com/surround/surround3.htm

Would love to hear opinions on this 'extraction of surround out of 2 channel' from anyone who has experienced it.

Would anyone have good links on how to make up the interconnects he talks about in the article?? if so please put them in here, thanks a lot for that.

hi terry, logic 7(also known as L7) is procesing lexicon uses and my Harman kardon comes with lexicon processing as well. I use Logic 7 all the time for digital tv and it gives a beaut 7.1 surround field for that even given it is only a 2ch source.

for pure 2ch though I dotn use any processing jsut plain stereo gear and much prefer it that way.

any harman kardon avr comes with logic 7 as with any of the more expensive lexicon av pre-pro's

Most of the manufacturers have their own proprietary surround systems for 2ch stereo sources (not encoded with anything else like PLIIX).

Lets see

Marantz - circle surround II

Harman Kardon - Logic 7

Rotel - XS Surround

Denon - DDSC

Yamaha - Cinema DSP

The list goes on!

Perhaps John your room/systems ability to produce quality multi-channel playback is because of it's ver well engineered shape and the level of technology involved?

Perhaps John your room/systems ability to produce quality multi-channel playback is because of it's ver well engineered shape and the level of technology involved?

Maybe, but in another house & a lesser system, a Fosgate 2 processor (an all analog effort, much praised by TAS decades ago) produced a similar, very palatable ambience from 2CH.

I've been playing at this game for decades (since the early 1980's) with my first effort centering around an analog bucket brigade capacitor job - Audio Pulse. In all this the control of the rear channel ambience is critical. Too much and the result is ghastly.

Not sure how effective some of the latest receivers are with this. Until now I've always used separates but will soon have a Denon 4306 to play around with in another system so I'll let you know how that sounds on CD.

John

Most of the manufacturers have their own proprietary surround systems for 2ch stereo sources (not encoded with anything else like PLIIX).

Lets see

Marantz - circle surround II

Harman Kardon - Logic 7

Rotel - XS Surround

Denon - DDSC

Yamaha - Cinema DSP

The list goes on!

Perhaps John your room/systems ability to produce quality multi-channel playback is because of it's ver well engineered shape and the level of technology involved?

And there is the NAD EARS system: [from the T175 brochure - but also exists on my T163]

"Using the latest Dual Core Floating Point DSP technology, NAD was able to include the newest surround formats from Dolby and DTS, as well as including NAD’s own highly regarded music surround mode; EARS 2. The EARS circuit (Enhanced Ambient Recovery System) is now optimized for 7 channel surround. Unlike, the typical artificially enhanced DSP modes like “Club”, “Stadium”, and “Church”, EARS uses DSP technology to extract the natural ambience of the recording. This is redirected to the surround channels to create natural surround sound from any 2 channel source. This induces a warm natural reverberant effect without the artificial “BOING” of digital reverb. The surround mode of the source material is automatically detected via the digital inputs of the T175, and the “highest” or most advanced form of decoding, based on your setup, is switched in. Conversion of the encoded digital bitstream is performed with high resolution and extremely linear D/A Converters carefully selected for their performance capabilities."

Have tried it but still stick to 2 ch as I don't go too much on all these modified sound modes.

Ok here is my current 2ch system.

proton AA-2120 amp

pioneer F-91 tuner

oppo 970-HD combi player

monica II DAC

polk sda srs 1.2 tls

REGARDS SNOW

Ok here is my current 2ch system.

lexicon mc-1 pre/pro

proton AA-2120 amp

pioneer F-91 tuner

oppo 970-HD combi player

monica II DAC

polk sda srs 1.2 tls

REGARDS SNOW

Hi all,

Good to be back after an extended break. Have been on a few of the U.S. forums recently and a hot topic at the moment and one worth a debate is 2 channel V Home Theatre (i.e. 5.1.etc)?? Currently I am running a Denon AVR-2807, B&W 603S3's (front), B&W 601S3's (rear) B&W DCR600(?) centre and a Velodyne CHT12R sub. Obviously a lot of us would be happy with this system however I have been chatting with a few people and I have got the bug to maybe go back to a 2 channel set up as I am more of a musichead then home theatre.

Would seek any thoughts/ideas on what I have written above. If I decide to go 2 channel I will be looking at selling all of the above which is in pristine condition, being just on 12 months old. I am possibly looking at going to a more high end set up with the likes of either Classe or McIntosh in a pre/power amp and speakers - yet to be decided, maybe Sonus Faber.

Any feedback / assistance would be greatly appreciated and if the direction I wish to take would be worthwhile.

Many thanks forum members.

Hi all,

Good to be back after an extended break. Have been on a few of the U.S. forums recently and a hot topic at the moment and one worth a debate is 2 channel V Home Theatre (i.e. 5.1.etc)?? Currently I am running a Denon AVR-2807, B&W 603S3's (front), B&W 601S3's (rear) B&W DCR600(?) centre and a Velodyne CHT12R sub. Obviously a lot of us would be happy with this system however I have been chatting with a few people and I have got the bug to maybe go back to a 2 channel set up as I am more of a musichead then home theatre.

Would seek any thoughts/ideas on what I have written above. If I decide to go 2 channel I will be looking at selling all of the above which is in pristine condition, being just on 12 months old. I am possibly looking at going to a more high end set up with the likes of either Classe or McIntosh in a pre/power amp and speakers - yet to be decided, maybe Sonus Faber.

Any feedback / assistance would be greatly appreciated and if the direction I wish to take would be worthwhile.

Many thanks forum members.

My advice - do it if you have some $ handy

You'll see by my sig what that same thought did to me 2 years ago......

And yep, even my B&Ws are getting the flick

Hi all,

Good to be back after an extended break. Have been on a few of the U.S. forums recently and a hot topic at the moment and one worth a debate is 2 channel V Home Theatre (i.e. 5.1.etc)?? Currently I am running a Denon AVR-2807, B&W 603S3's (front), B&W 601S3's (rear) B&W DCR600(?) centre and a Velodyne CHT12R sub. Obviously a lot of us would be happy with this system however I have been chatting with a few people and I have got the bug to maybe go back to a 2 channel set up as I am more of a musichead then home theatre.

Would seek any thoughts/ideas on what I have written above. If I decide to go 2 channel I will be looking at selling all of the above which is in pristine condition, being just on 12 months old. I am possibly looking at going to a more high end set up with the likes of either Classe or McIntosh in a pre/power amp and speakers - yet to be decided, maybe Sonus Faber.

Any feedback / assistance would be greatly appreciated and if the direction I wish to take would be worthwhile.

Many thanks forum members.

My advice would be to tread carefully. Your Denon is a good piece of gear, but you do not mention what player you are using.

I'm far more in favour of a combined audio & video system. If you like quality sound, why go for second rate with Home Theater? Your speakers are fine and well matched so build on it with a better player or have it modded by Soundlabs Group Melbourne & Sydney. When they wave their magic wands with better timing clocks, improved power supplies etc, they can transform ordinary players into something really special. http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/

Build on what you already have or you run the danger of throwing out the baby with the bathwater!

John

Have no 2ch now !. Have very good system 3 times in 3 continent for many year. Now only projecter home theatre here. Good read on 2ch now.

Hi all,

Good to be back after an extended break. Have been on a few of the U.S. forums recently and a hot topic at the moment and one worth a debate is 2 channel V Home Theatre (i.e. 5.1.etc)?? Currently I am running a Denon AVR-2807, B&W 603S3's (front), B&W 601S3's (rear) B&W DCR600(?) centre and a Velodyne CHT12R sub. Obviously a lot of us would be happy with this system however I have been chatting with a few people and I have got the bug to maybe go back to a 2 channel set up as I am more of a musichead then home theatre.

Would seek any thoughts/ideas on what I have written above. If I decide to go 2 channel I will be looking at selling all of the above which is in pristine condition, being just on 12 months old. I am possibly looking at going to a more high end set up with the likes of either Classe or McIntosh in a pre/power amp and speakers - yet to be decided, maybe Sonus Faber.

Any feedback / assistance would be greatly appreciated and if the direction I wish to take would be worthwhile.

Many thanks forum members.

hey B&w why flog it all, why not a combined system many of us have a system that can do both. Selling will cost unfortunately and loose out doing so. Another approach might be to augment slowly. Take your time and add to your system one at a time slowly as budget allows.

G Day. I'm using a NAD C720BEE, from the "preout" to a DIY 3 way active X/over (silicon chip) using 4 DIY Gainclone amps for Tweeter and mid, the woofer goes back to the "pre in" and uses the NAD amp. Speakers are all DIY, using Peerless drivers. The 2 ch audio, is far better than my 7.1 system. Dont have a CD player yet !!!!

hey B&w why flog it all, why not a combined system many of us have a system that can do both. Selling will cost unfortunately and loose out doing so. Another approach might be to augment slowly. Take your time and add to your system one at a time slowly as budget allows.

Yep thats what we did

B&Wbynature I have a nice pair of 802d for perfect integration with both your high end 2ch aspirations as well as existing HT surrounds

Please pm me if interested

Howdy all and thanks for some great feedback and advice as always! Having read this, I guess it may be better to stick with the devil I know, and by saying that I am no way denigrating a system that would obviously satisfy what I am after but I could possibly fine tune the system I presently have. As many of you have said there certainly is no problem with the set up I presently have. That being said, maybe I am getting a little greedy in my old age peeps I guess that's what getting old does to you.....

I will ponder your offer Norpus as I know u r fastidious and passionate about your equipment and will let u know. I think a serious upgrade of my cd/dvd player might be in order. Ahhh not sure if I am prepared to say what it is....*coughs* *splutters* as I might be in for some serious embarassment given the nature of the rest of my equipment (already mentioned). Ok, well here goes, I have an LG DVD recorder RH4820. Very standard unit and I would gather that I would be doing my CD's a gross injustice???

Again any feedback/suggestions are most welcome. Maybe suggestions as to which one to go for. Obviously I have the choice to go just CD player and keep the LG for DVD's. Or get one that does both.....hmmmmm....the mind boggles.

Cheers and thanks.

**Oh and there is a guy selling this on ebay.....worth it or??

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Elektra-Theatron-7-...1QQcmdZViewItem

Howdy all and thanks for some great feedback and advice as always! Having read this, I guess it may be better to stick with the devil I know, and by saying that I am no way denigrating a system that would obviously satisfy what I am after but I could possibly fine tune the system I presently have. As many of you have said there certainly is no problem with the set up I presently have. That being said, maybe I am getting a little greedy in my old age peeps I guess that's what getting old does to you.....

I will ponder your offer Norpus as I know u r fastidious and passionate about your equipment and will let u know. I think a serious upgrade of my cd/dvd player might be in order. Ahhh not sure if I am prepared to say what it is....*coughs* *splutters* as I might be in for some serious embarassment given the nature of the rest of my equipment (already mentioned). Ok, well here goes, I have an LG DVD recorder RH4820. Very standard unit and I would gather that I would be doing my CD's a gross injustice???

Again any feedback/suggestions are most welcome. Maybe suggestions as to which one to go for. Obviously I have the choice to go just CD player and keep the LG for DVD's. Or get one that does both.....hmmmmm....the mind boggles.

Cheers and thanks.

Hehe no worries there B&Wbynature. And yes, your cd sound can be improved markedly with a change - having been a few iterations down this route I could show you what upgrades I did piecemeal and show how they change the cd sound if you want to pop over for a play. I still have the gear I upgraded from when going from HT to improving my 2ch, so it is relatively easy to retrace the steps

Obviously I have the choice to go just CD player and keep the LG for DVD's. Or get one that does both.....hmmmmm....the mind boggles.

Cheers and thanks.

If you are serious about audio quality (and I'm a fanatic about this) then YES, keep your LG for DVDs and look at a dedicated CD player + investigate having it modified by Soundlabs Group Melbourne & Sydney. http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/ Note that the video circuits can cause hash in the audio line and that is why the latest Denon players turn off the video for CD playing. If you want a really good universal player, try the Denon 3030. I've just had one modded by Soundlabs Group.

Sorry if I sound as if I'm an agent for them - I'm not, just a VERY happy customer. They have upgraded over 6 players for me with better timing clocks etc and this has transformed them from mid fi to high end units. One of their best efforts was on a used Denon 3000 CDP which I had modified to digital out and tacked on a Benchmark DAC 1 (also highly modified) -> superb sounding audio. And yes, I've over done it and have sold a couple but still have a player or two too many. Maybe you would be interested in buying my modified Rotel 865 BX? If so, send me a message off board.

John

If you are serious about audio quality (and I'm a fanatic about this) then YES, keep your LG for DVDs and look at a dedicated CD player + investigate having it modified by Soundlabs Group Melbourne & Sydney. http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/ Note that the video circuits can cause hash in the audio line and that is why the latest Denon players turn off the video for CD playing. If you want a really good universal player, try the Denon 3030. I've just had one modded by Soundlabs Group.

Sorry if I sound as if I'm an agent for them - I'm not, just a VERY happy customer. They have upgraded over 6 players for me with better timing clocks etc and this has transformed them from mid fi to high end units. One of their best efforts was on a used Denon 3000 CDP which I had modified to digital out and tacked on a Benchmark DAC 1 (also highly modified) -> superb sounding audio. And yes, I've over done it and have sold a couple but still have a player or two too many. Maybe you would be interested in buying my modified Rotel 865 BX? If so, send me a message off board.

John

yes I agree start with the source but really improvements can be had all the way through, with mostly additions. the main weakness in a ht system for 2ch tends to be the ht avr so for 2ch improvemtn I'd highly recommed a 2ch pre-pwr or good quality 2ch integrated, many of these come with a ht-bypass makign integration with a ht system real easy allowing you to enjoy the best of both worlds. explore too the option of upgradign yoru mains/speakers, will make a big impact on the overall sound plus giving you some benifits on the ht side as well.

norpus' offer is a great one if you can take it up as he could really show you the benfits through the chain. and will be a fun process experiencing first hand the improvements to be had with the similar denon b&w gear that you have.

**Oh and there is a guy selling this on ebay.....worth it or??

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Elektra-Theatron-7-...1QQcmdZViewItem

oooh makes me want to take out a small loan , I wish there was a feature on this forum that blocks 'enticing items for sale'. I think I'm on the brink of admitting I have a problem when it comes to impulse purchasing of audio equipment!

Thanks guys once again, greatly appreciated and even better to be back receiving such good advice. Obviously we are very passionate about our home theatre as can be read on this forum and the information I have taken from this forum has been first class. Might have to pop over to Norpus' and check out these 802D's. Even better would be for someone to check out the aesthetics of our place....as we have polished floor boards etc and a cathedral ceiling which I guess would make a difference to speaker placement and the like.

Cheers.

Thanks guys once again, greatly appreciated and even better to be back receiving such good advice. Obviously we are very passionate about our home theatre as can be read on this forum and the information I have taken from this forum has been first class. Might have to pop over to Norpus' and check out these 802D's. Even better would be for someone to check out the aesthetics of our place....as we have polished floor boards etc and a cathedral ceiling which I guess would make a difference to speaker placement and the like.

Cheers.

Please do - with a signature like yours, how could you not? hehe

And my place is also polished boards with a 3.4mtr high ceiling btw

What size is your room?

My system is consists of;-

Thorens TD 321

Rega RB300 arm cable modified with vdh

Sumiko Oyster BPS

Sony CDX-5ES

ME 25 Pre and 850 Power

Whatmough 501i Signature

AE1 Mkii Reference with dedicated stand

Very happy with the system

Happy listening guys!

Al,

How do you find your SCD XA900ES? I mean what would be the strength and weakness of the player.

David

My 2ch system is as follows (like may it is intergrated into my HT)

Mains - Krix Symphonix (want the Nuephonix though)

PrePro - Rotel RSP1068

Amp - Rotel RMB1075

CD - Rotel RCD1072

Sub - B&W600AWS

And i love it...just wish the neighbours were farther away

My 2ch system is as follows (like may it is intergrated into my HT)

Mains - Krix Symphonix (want the Nuephonix though)

PrePro - Rotel RSP1068

Amp - Rotel RMB1075

CD - Rotel RCD1072

Sub - B&W600AWS

And i love it...just wish the neighbours were farther away

Hi Living... I had the Rotel 1068, rcd 1072 for a long time and was very happy with the setup so can only say nice work I'll be your system sounds sweeeettttttt