Philips 42PF9831

[wim]

( (( Philips official link here )) )

The time has come for me to buy a decent TV and all roads appear to be leading to the new Philips 42" LCD with Ambilight.

( (( Picture here )) )

( (( Specifications )) )

I want to run this with a laptop & Xbox360 and get the full HD experience from it. What I don't want is to have to turn around and sell it in a couple of years time because I'm disappointed with the quality. This is an expensive purchase and I want it to last at least a good 5 years. If technology changes and we're all ported directly in to the holoweb 5 years from now then I'd like to be able to look back on this purchase knowing it was good at the time.

What's people's impressions thus far ? (Yes I've read a couple of the threads here already... but it's going to become retail in a matter of a couple of weeks and the internet isn't static).

Also keen to hear what prices are being quoted. I've got itchy fingers but I'm seeing varying prices (mid $3k - $7.5k)

Any and all comments / discussion greatly appreciated.

If there's a better tv out there - I'd be keen to hear what it is and why.

Cheers,

Zoonimal.

--------------

Quick edit : Oh yeah - this is my first post so Hi there

[Hussla]

Go see one running in the shop, make sure its running a HD source and NOT I REPEAT IS NOT CONNECTED TO ANYTHING WITH THE BRAND "DGTEC"

Specs wise looks good, only disappointing think is that its 1366x766p resolution.

Philips have a new plasma on the way which does 1440x1080i resolution.

I'd wait for the new 42" Plasma to be perfectly honest.

[BRD]

Ive seen this set and I was astounded - could not believe it was LCD!

See the thread New Philips LCD I started a few weeks ago. This set makes plasmas look very ordinary!

I just need to see one on a variety of sources, and to make sure what I saw actually makes it into production!

If its street price is soon competitive with Sony, I think I'm in. If you read my thread, you'll see links to actual photos and more info on the reported groundbreaking technology of this set.

Who ever spots one first - please post WHERE!

Links to reviews - Please post them!

Cheers

[BRD]

Specs wise looks good, only disappointing think is that its 1366x766p resolution.

Philips have a new plasma on the way which does 1440x1080i resolution.

I'd wait for the new 42" Plasma to be perfectly honest.

I'm interested in Picture Quality not specs.

Brightness, contrast sharpness no blur shadow detail and true blacks is what Im after for my money. And surround ambilight might just be more than a gimmick. It seems to aid in the perception of picture quality and screen size.

By the way, on 6th of June, you posted "I have to admit, this set has got me excited". Whats happened? Is it the cold weather now?

I'll be interested to see it. But I think the tide is going to turn toward LCD from what Ive seen. The current Philips Plasmas are (IMHO) not up with the Panas and Pioneers in a number of areas.

Cheers,

Zoonimal.

--------------

Quick edit : Oh yeah - this is my first post so Hi there

Welcome!!! Is this a great place or what!

[Matey]

Hi guys

Spoke with Philips customer care - very helpfull as opposed to Sony.

The 42PF9831 will be out at all other states in two weeks but apparently NSW was a bit late in getting their order in. Hardly Normal at Bondi will be the first people to get it in Sydney around the 1st July.

RRP is $6,899 -

Hopefully this price will drop once the new Sony's come out and give it some solid competition.

Cheers

[wim]

Hi guys

Spoke with Philips customer care - very helpfull as opposed to Sony.

The 42PF9831 will be out at all other states in two weeks but apparently NSW was a bit late in getting their order in. Hardly Normal at Bondi will be the first people to get it in Sydney around the 1st July.

RRP is $6,899 -

Hopefully this price will drop once the new Sony's come out and give it some solid competition.

Cheers

From talking with the following this week...

Philips :Shipping to occur this week to distributors who will start selling it first week of July. Some will need to order.

David Jones : Will not deal with Philips (even though they are the sole distributor for the panel in my town according to the Philips website). They were less than helpful.

Harvey Norman : Wont have it till September. They stated they'll be the only ones who will have the set for the first three months. Retail will be $7000. Price is not negotiable.

Good guys: They can order the panel for me this week. $5999 is their retail price. I asked for a cash price and they stated I'd definitely pay less than $5500.

Zoon.

[Ajax9000]

...

Philips have a new plasma on the way which does 1440x1080i resolution.

...

Personally, I think 1440x1080i is a stupid resolution (yes, I know why 1440 was probably chosen). As I've suggested before, 1280x1080 has a few advantages as a 'compromise' resolution.

Adrian

[Hussla]

Personally, I think 1440x1080i is a stupid resolution (yes, I know why 1440 was probably chosen). As I've suggested before, 1280x1080 has a few advantages as a 'compromise' resolution.

Adrian

Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't broadcast HDTV resolution end up been 1440x1080 anyway?

[Chopstar]

( (( Philips official link here )) )

The time has come for me to buy a decent TV and all roads appear to be leading to the new Philips 42" LCD with Ambilight.

( (( Picture here )) )

( (( Specifications )) )

I want to run this with a laptop & Xbox360 and get the full HD experience from it. What I don't want is to have to turn around and sell it in a couple of years time because I'm disappointed with the quality. This is an expensive purchase and I want it to last at least a good 5 years. If technology changes and we're all ported directly in to the holoweb 5 years from now then I'd like to be able to look back on this purchase knowing it was good at the time.

What's people's impressions thus far ? (Yes I've read a couple of the threads here already... but it's going to become retail in a matter of a couple of weeks and the internet isn't static).

Also keen to hear what prices are being quoted. I've got itchy fingers but I'm seeing varying prices (mid $3k - $7.5k)

Any and all comments / discussion greatly appreciated.

If there's a better tv out there - I'd be keen to hear what it is and why.

Cheers,

Zoonimal.

--------------

Quick edit : Oh yeah - this is my first post so Hi there

Ok so you want to spend shitloads on a panel that can only do 1024x768 @60Hz via PC ?????..

Secondly when running the panel via a PC many onboard features are disabled ....you have been warned.

Thirdly running a panel via a laptop sounds very 21st century however the processor will be running hot alot of the time.This may affect PQ.

Normally a HTPC has a defined videocard with its own chip and this leaves the other chip to deal with other tasks.

Unless your laptop has a dual core processor I think you maybe asking too much from your Laptops processor.

I would be interested in seeing how it pans out for you.

I may seem a bit critical but I hate to see someone who has their hopes built up only to find a plague of problems ahead of them..... Trust me Ive been down that road and dont want to go back...

[wim]

Ok so you want to spend shitloads on a panel that can only do 1024x768 @60Hz via PC ?????..

Secondly when running the panel via a PC many onboard features are disabled ....you have been warned.

Thirdly running a panel via a laptop sounds very 21st century however the processor will be running hot alot of the time.This may affect PQ.

Normally a HTPC has a defined videocard with its own chip and this leaves the other chip to deal with other tasks.

Unless your laptop has a dual core processor I think you maybe asking too much from your Laptops processor.

I would be interested in seeing how it pans out for you.

I may seem a bit critical but I hate to see someone who has their hopes built up only to find a plague of problems ahead of them..... Trust me Ive been down that road and dont want to go back...

Hi Lasty,

I've never mentioned running a PC through the panel so don't really care what resolution it runs at. 1024 x 768 for a laptop's fine by me. I'll mostly be using Sony Acid or Office applications if anything. As long as the Xbox 360 runs at full HD resolution (I'll be using Monster cabling) then I'll be happy computer-wise.

I build my own computers when needed and currently run a dual-processor motherboard with 1gb of dual kingmax and a saffire radeon 9800xt graphics card. This computer wont be hooked up to the new panel. My Sunspark 20" monitor is just fine for Photoshopping my dslr photos and general interweb browsing.

Thanks for the warning - you're most kind.

As for running a laptop with the panel : minimum requirement will be dual processing with 2gb memory, decent graphics card (seperate - not onboard), running time, and cool processing. I'm currently leaning towards an Apple product that'll also run the Microsoft Office suite.

I just want the panel for the Laptop , 360 and possibly the PS3, and HD DVD/TV content. This new panel appears to pave the way forward for the 75hz backlighting tech and is apparently comparable to CRT. If the quality is excellent then, yes, I'll spend a sh!tload on a device that'll provide me with hopefully many years of troublefree enjoyable viewing/gaming.

[Matey]

Ok so you want to spend shitloads on a panel that can only do 1024x768 @60Hz via PC ?????..

what's the alternative? Personally I have been waiting to get a new tv for a long time - the technology keeps getting better and the prices keep dropping. What you are suggesting is a 'shitload' today must really hurt those people that bought SD Plasma's for 10k plus a couple of years ago.

If you were going to buy a TV today that you wanted to function as a family tv but also have the ability to play, say xbox 360, or run an MCE computer with it, what would you suggest?

I was also thinking of getting the Philip's as the os reviews seem to suggest it is even better than the new Sony's...

Interested in you thoughts.

Cheers

Matey

ps zoonimal - if I get to see it running in a shop and it lives up to expectations then perhaps combining some shopping power might get a better price - this obviously assumes that you are living in the Sydney area

[Ajax9000]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't broadcast HDTV resolution end up been 1440x1080 anyway?

Correct.

(It is covered in the recent threads The Facts & Fiction of 1080p and Hitachi Introduces World's First 42-Inch Plasma With 1080 Line Display, About Time!!!!!, plus many others.)

In short, 1440x1080 was a compromise broadcast resolution due to MUSE-era cameras being adapted to ATSC/DVB. As broadcasters update their systems 1440 may/should/will go; so why make a panel to fit a compromise broadcast resolution? At least 1280x1080 is a compromise between the two main official HDTV resolutions -- allowing easy 1-dimensional scaling of each with comparitively few PQ impacts.

This is, of course, only a short-term issue. In five years 1920x1080p will probably be "entry-level".

Adrian

[Chopstar]

what's the alternative? Personally I have been waiting to get a new tv for a long time - the technology keeps getting better and the prices keep dropping. What you are suggesting is a 'shitload' today must really hurt those people that bought SD Plasma's for 10k plus a couple of years ago.

If you were going to buy a TV today that you wanted to function as a family tv but also have the ability to play, say xbox 360, or run an MCE computer with it, what would you suggest?

I was also thinking of getting the Philip's as the os reviews seem to suggest it is even better than the new Sony's...

Interested in you thoughts.

Cheers

Matey

ps zoonimal - if I get to see it running in a shop and it lives up to expectations then perhaps combining some shopping power might get a better price - this obviously assumes that you are living in the Sydney area

Currently i run a HTPC through a Pana 500A and I do get frustrated with that panels limitations/restrictions.

If I was going to run a PC through a panel I would be looking at the commercial panels that allow the flexibility with PC's.

Yes you can use different s/w to force the panel HOWEVER getting that s/w to talk to other s/w is a different ball game.

Its far easier to get the hardware right in the first place.

Fujitsu and Panasonic make great commercial panels.

As I said before, when using the PC via the panel much of the onboard software in the panel is disabled so reality its of no use anyway.

[wim]

ps zoonimal - if I get to see it running in a shop and it lives up to expectations then perhaps combining some shopping power might get a better price - this obviously assumes that you are living in the Sydney area

Hey there Matey, sounds like a good plan only I'm in the ACT, which kind-of puts paid to that idea, unfortunately.

I'll be taking a laptop in to trial the Philips with HD DVD content played from the harddrive.

[Matey]

Hey there Matey, sounds like a good plan only I'm in the ACT, which kind-of puts paid to that idea, unfortunately.

I'll be taking a laptop in to trial the Philips with HD DVD content played from the harddrive.

Zoon

I was just doing a bit more quick research and noticed that the feature set has been pretty much slashed when comparing the Aus model to its UK/US counterparts. Just looking through the different Philips sites for different regions will show you where they differ - I am now very cautious about trusting any review that did not look at the Aus model specifically.

The funny (not so funny) thing is that they are still hitting up the consumers for the same amount of money....

Go figure

Make sure you have a very close look b4 u buy - and please let us know how you go.

Cheers

Matey

[BRD]

Zoon

I was just doing a bit more quick research and noticed that the feature set has been pretty much slashed when comparing the Aus model to its UK/US counterparts. Just looking through the different Philips sites for different regions will show you where they differ - I am now very cautious about trusting any review that did not look at the Aus model specifically.

The funny (not so funny) thing is that they are still hitting up the consumers for the same amount of money....

Go figure

Make sure you have a very close look b4 u buy - and please let us know how you go.

Cheers

Matey

Can you post the major omissions for us, if you dont mind?

I'm in Sydney, and I could be interested in a "group buy", if we can get some numbers together. But lets see it first. I'm interested in the HTPC compatability issue also.

[Matey]

Can you post the major omissions for us, if you dont mind?

I'm in Sydney, and I could be interested in a "group buy", if we can get some numbers together. But lets see it first. I'm interested in the HTPC compatability issue also.

No worries - I am not a techie but the following seems to be lacking on such a highly priced lcd:

- integrated digital tuner - available on uk model;

- wifi enabled - available on uk model;

- ethernet and uPnP - available on uk model.

It might also be worth checking this thread http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread....t=314792&page=7

where they basically bash Philips for not releasing the panel as a 1080p panel - but I know this subject is already covered extensively in other areas of this forum.

Still very keen on checking out the panel, and if it surpasses the Sony then happy to do a group buy.

[wim]

No worries - I am not a techie but the following seems to be lacking on such a highly priced lcd:

- integrated digital tuner - available on uk model;

- wifi enabled - available on uk model;

- ethernet and uPnP - available on uk model.

It might also be worth checking this thread http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread....t=314792&page=7

where they basically bash Philips for not releasing the panel as a 1080p panel - but I know this subject is already covered extensively in other areas of this forum.

Still very keen on checking out the panel, and if it surpasses the Sony then happy to do a group buy.

I was also surprised it wasn't 1080p but there you go. I'm in the ACT but might be interested in a group buy. Will be heading to the Blue Mountains this weekend and poss. back up there again early July.

Want to check it out with a laptop first and can wait for something better if it works out that's the best option. Don't want to rush in to something I'm not going to be fully happy with.

I'm gathering this is 8th gen LCD?

[Ajax9000]

I was also surprised it wasn't 1080p ...

Given their success selling ALiS panels, and the significant technological (and cost) jump make 1080 discrete lines in a 42" plasma, it isn't all that surprising. Pioneer's new 1080p panel is 50" (the smallest thus far) ... and will be 2-4 times the price of other 50" panels.

My gut feeling is that it may not be feasible to do a 42" 1080p plasma -- maybe eventually technically but probably not cost competitive wrt LCD/etc.

Adrian

[ckent]

To anyone who sees it:

1. Does film content (or Seven's HD loop) get the fluid effect by Pixel Plus 3? Make sure you're viewing it via 1080i and not 576p. All previous models refused to process the video at 1080i and 720p, but some did 576p.

2. How does Seven's HD loop look on there anyway? It may have been bad in-store settings that I saw on previous Pixel Plus sets from Philips, but somehow the MPEG artefacts seemed to be highlighted artificially.

This may be due to processing that does a nice job to "perfect" sources of pictures, though. But I'm sorry to say that the examples I saw of Philips sets handling broadcast TV were, frankly, something I'd not want to buy to watch broadcast TV ... the sheer blockiness compared to the same feed plugged into a CRT HDTV was very disappointing. (Whereas, a CRT HDTV, would be quite relaxing and beautiful to watch broadcast TV with).

I want to like these Philips TVs, I really do ...

CK.

[BRD]

To anyone who sees it:

1. Does film content (or Seven's HD loop) get the fluid effect by Pixel Plus 3? Make sure you're viewing it via 1080i and not 576p. All previous models refused to process the video at 1080i and 720p, but some did 576p.

2. How does Seven's HD loop look on there anyway? It may have been bad in-store settings that I saw on previous Pixel Plus sets from Philips, but somehow the MPEG artefacts seemed to be highlighted artificially.

This may be due to processing that does a nice job to "perfect" sources of pictures, though. But I'm sorry to say that the examples I saw of Philips sets handling broadcast TV were, frankly, something I'd not want to buy to watch broadcast TV ... the sheer blockiness compared to the same feed plugged into a CRT HDTV was very disappointing. (Whereas, a CRT HDTV, would be quite relaxing and beautiful to watch broadcast TV with).

I want to like these Philips TVs, I really do ...

CK.

I recently viewed 50" Pioneer and Pana HD Plasmas at Domayne, and watched the 7 HD loop through about 3 times in the end. Apart from the Pana looking the best (after some tweeking) I did notice the scene with Telstra stadium from the air at night was very poor and jaggy & shimmery & 'sparkely' on both sets! And these are on my short list!

I then had a look at the Philips which was further away in the store, Philips 42PF9830 full HD LCD and watched the same 7 HD loop. The panning Stadium night scene looked a million times better on this LCD than either of the 50" top-end Plasmas! No sparkles/shimmer at all.

However I dont believe full HD in 42" is of much benefit, I want to invest in the electronics behind the panel. The number of pixels is not what counts IMHO (eg. as in digital cameras). Having already seen the 42PF9831, I'm expecting its Pixel Plus 3 HD and Clear LCD PQ will be much better than every set currently available. Provided what I saw has made it into production as I said before.

Waiting....waiting, waiting! :ph34r:

I was also surprised it wasn't 1080p but there you go. I'm in the ACT but might be interested in a group buy. Will be heading to the Blue Mountains this weekend and poss. back up there again early July.

Zooanimal! (edit...Zoonimal),

While your in town and for anyone interested in western Sydney, check out the TV display at Bing Lee Penrith at the Mega Home Maker Centre just near the M4 Freeway exit.

Bing Lee Penrith has the best pic quality (mainly running FTA via component inputs) that I have seen across many stores. All sets seem very well adjusted. Their larger LCD display is a bit cramped though, but the Plasma display is really good.

You can also go and see Domayne and HN in the same complex. Domanyne has a good range on display, mainly running 7 HD loop and the odd DVD.

Thats if you have nothing to do...

[wim]

Zooanimal,

While your in town and for anyone interested in western Sydney, check out the TV display at Bing Lee Penrith at the Mega Home Maker Centre just near the M4 Freeway exit.

Bing Lee Penrith has the best pic quality (mainly running FTA via component inputs) that I have seen across many stores. All sets seem very well adjusted. Their larger LCD display is a bit cramped though, but the Plasma display is really good.

You can also go and see Domayne and HN in the same complex. Domanyne has a good range on display, mainly running 7 HD loop and the odd DVD.

Thats if you have nothing to do...

zoo+animal. Got it in one.

I'll be driving up to Katoomba with a slight detour by Jamberoo after work tomorrow. Family visit and I really like both locations.

Bing Lee Penrith, eh? Thanks for the tip. I'll hopefully have time to check that out on Saturday. Cheers.

Very interested to see the 9831. I've heard Harvey Norman here are going to showcase the panel. They're quite keen on it from what I've heard. I'm hoping it lives up to the hype but time will tell.

[Chopstar]

zoo+animal. Got it in one.

I'll be driving up to Katoomba with a slight detour by Jamberoo after work tomorrow. Family visit and I really like both locations.

Bing Lee Penrith, eh? Thanks for the tip. I'll hopefully have time to check that out on Saturday. Cheers.

Very interested to see the 9831. I've heard Harvey Norman here are going to showcase the panel. They're quite keen on it from what I've heard. I'm hoping it lives up to the hype but time will tell.

Nothing like the real thing at home...

Component ???? I thought DVI and HDMI were the creme de la creme

What about PC displays?

[BRD]

Nothing like the real thing at home...

Component ???? I thought DVI and HDMI were the creme de la creme

What about PC displays?

Zoonimal, Jamberoo is a great day out if its sunny, my kids love it.

Lasty (but not least!y), You won't see banks of TV running HDMI anywhere I dont think. At least I never have. When I asked once, I was told you can't piggyback HDMI and the cables are costly, and only run limited distance. Even when I do find one DVD player per TV (eg Bing Lee at Rhodes) i found they still run component. A lame excuse once was if we make them look too good, people often come back and complain when the picture at home ends up being poorer than what they saw in the shop! Now thats really selling the new technology...

PC displays - Bing Lee Rhodes have a HP HTPC in their theatre room through a big (60"?) Fuji. Unfortunately IMHO it did not look great - clay faces! I enquired and was told its the recording! The sound was awesome though. It was the Bee Gees concert - cant remember the title (maybe one night only?) but it will be well worth buying.

Best HD digital demo Ive seen through HDMI was 50" Toshiba RP via a Toshi HD J-35 Recorder at Castle Hill HI Fi, at Castle Towers shopping Centre. Recording of Bert's morning show looked absolutely perfect and even 3D. I could almost see Bert's real hair in amongst the transplant...

[ckent]

I recently viewed 50" Pioneer and Pana HD Plasmas at Domayne, and watched the 7 HD loop through about 3 times in the end. Apart from the Pana looking the best (after some tweeking) I did notice the scene with Telstra stadium from the air at night was very poor and jaggy & shimmery & 'sparkely' on both sets! And these are on my short list!

Yeah, that's a really good easy test that anyone can do -- as long as you make sure there is 1080i running into the TV (this will be easy to filter out in 576i, and in the 576p/720p modes it is actually reasonable to expect the TV to reproduce the shimmering). Keep an eye out for the less suitable stores to browse in, who have multiple TVs connected to one decoder, which means you can still have 1080i coming out of the box but one of the TVs may still have 576i being fed to it. (Any salesman that won't show you the component cables or HDMI cable, is too lazy to sell you something for thousands of dollars).

I then had a look at the Philips which was further away in the store, Philips 42PF9830 full HD LCD and watched the same 7 HD loop. The panning Stadium night scene looked a million times better on this LCD than either of the 50" top-end Plasmas! No sparkles/shimmer at all.

It has =some= shimmer, but basically the filtering exists, which is good enough. Samsung does it best, but most brands with a model released in the last 9 months will do this (the technology to process at 1080p is fairly recent to be cheap enough). I think all the models with ALiS plasma panels get this right, and if you're getting a 1376x768 panel, especially at the 50"+ sizes, then make sure it can do this, because it makes a big improvement.

Anyhoo, I wasn't asking about that :-)

The 2005-vintage Philips LCDs still seem to make the MPEG in the Seven HD loop look a lot worse than it is. (Which is saying something; though I need to point out, a lot of other brands do exactly the same thing). The way I'm judging this is by comparing the Sony HD CRT I have on my desk at work, and also the top-end CRT monitor I have on my computer at home (these things cost about $5000 in their day).

I hate the fact that I have to re-judge every display in the store, on its ability to show broadcast TV. You might initially blame the TV quality, naturally because it isn't as good as the in-store demo loops; but then you need to remember that a lot of TV is simply older or just news footage etc anyway, so what are you going to do about it? The clincher to me is, if broadcast TV is such horrible quality, why can a CRT make it look so good then? Obviously enough quality exists on the broadcast. I say it's the overprocessing going on. After all, CRTs can have a horrible quality too if you overprocess the picture ... so many CRTs in the last 10 years did suck, too.

However I dont believe full HD in 42" is of much benefit, I want to invest in the electronics behind the panel.

Agreed. My priority is to make news and sport look good, when it comes to 42". When you watch that content on a computer, you're filling up even more of your view, and it looks pretty good. So it should be possible at 42".

I'm expecting its Pixel Plus 3 HD and Clear LCD PQ will be much better than every set currently available.

Ditto. I hope so ... there's been quite a lot promised for the boost Philips gave to this latest generation of LCD technology. I'm willing to get on down to Bondi Junction to check it out.

CK.