Bosk Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Hi guys, I'm a newbie DIYer and I could use some tips on where to find audiophile-grade parts in Australia, online preferably. I'm very new to the electronics DIY scene and am still reading up on the theory behind electrical circuits, and practising my soldering technique. It seems logical that DIYing cables would be a great place to start in this hobby, so I plan to DIY a pair of interconnects & speaker cables as my initial projects. I see no reason not to start out using quality materials, prior experience in other hobbies having taught me that buying cheap crap in the beginning (Thermaltake heatsinks anyone?) actually works out to be more expensive because they usually end up getting replaced by better-quality stuff eventually. For example, right now I'm using the standard 60/40 solder from DSE, but I'd like to get my hands on some "audio grade" solder. I was thinking something along the lines of the 4% silver WBT stuff or the Eutectic Cardas solder might be best. Parts Connexion in the US stock them, along with other quality components like Auricaps and Vishay resistors which I'll probably be wanting down the track when I get around to modding my Trends T-amp and Lite DAC-AH that are the backbone of my PC system. I'd prefer to shop local if possible, but (being completely honest) if buying from overseas means I can stretch my Aussie dollars further then that's likely to convince me - after all, "money talks" as the saying goes. I've browsed Jaycar, Altronics and Farnell but can't seem to find anything that looks suitable, though admittedly the menu systems of these sites tend to be rather confusing for a newcomber. Sorry for the long post, but to sum it up I'd really like to hear where everyone who shops local buys their audio-grade components from. Cheers guys. 1
JA Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Hello Bosk Welcome to the forum. Nice to have you onboard. As I recall RS components sells a 1.5% Silver solder and possibly a higher content, maybe 4%. The 1.5% seems to make a much nicer (shinier/neat) joint than the higher silver content solders I have seen. Best JA
Guest Muon Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 I'm sure Leon has it http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/c/Solder/Solder.htm
Bosk Posted January 6, 2009 Author Posted January 6, 2009 Thanks very much for the welcome JA. Incidentally, have you been able to hear much (if any?) difference between silver & non-silver content solders in your circuits? Cheers for pointing me to the Mundorf solder datafone, they look very appealing! From what I've read I'm under the impression that lead-free solders are very difficult to work with however... is there any truth to that?
A9X Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Thanks very much for the welcome JA. Incidentally, have you been able to hear much (if any?) difference between silver & non-silver content solders in your circuits? No, and you won't. The RS stuff mentioned is what I've been using for years and it makes an excellent reliable joint (with good technique) and the technique is far, far, far more important than the solder type.Other components I get from a number of different sources, locally and O/S. Depends what it is I want. A tip from a long time builder: don't obsess over parts quality too much. I've built tube amps with clipleads and no one has been able to tell the difference between them and the completed units using all 'audio' (misnomer) grade parts. Instead, please learn how stuff actually works and why it does that way. You'll be able to apply that knowledge far more readily and usefully than worrying whether this component sounds better than that. I have a ton of resources and links, depending on what it is you want to know. Good to have another DIYer here, welcome.
Nolz Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Wondered the same thing about a week ago see below. http://http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php?t=8422
4heckssake Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Wondered the same thing about a week ago see below. http://http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php?t=8422 might just be me but that link doesn't work
Aslan Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 I use the Mundorf solder myself.................provides a good joint and is not as tricky as some other ROHS compliant products to use. It does require more heat then conventional solder but not ridiculuously more.
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) Thanks very much for the welcome JA. Incidentally, have you been able to hear much (if any?) difference between silver & non-silver content solders in your circuits? Of course not. Just use good quality regular solder. I use Multicore Savbit™, which has excellent flux (far more important than anything else) and a trace of copper. If you want silver content solder, then RS and Farnell sell excellent products. I use them as well, but only when clients demand it (the customer is always right) or if I want a slightly stonger joint (silver solder is stronger). Sound-wise, there is no difference. Cheers for pointing me to the Mundorf solder datafone, they look very appealing! From what I've read I'm under the impression that lead-free solders are very difficult to work with however... is there any truth to that? Lead free solders require hotter iron temps and are more difficult for beginners to cope with, without damaging PCBs and components. The joints don't look as nice either. It's like many things however. It is probably a matter of time before lead solder will be completely phased out. Fundamentally, your FIRST worry should be to acquire a GOOD temperature controlled soldering station (keep the sponge wet!) and good quality (not silver) solder. As I stated, I have a soft spot for Multicore products. I have done, for more than 40 years. Then you need to practice. Soldering is an art AND a science. Read up and get some first hand instruction and you'll be sweet. Edited January 6, 2009 by Zaphod Beeblebrox Brain fart
joz Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 So can we relegate silver solder to the audio myths thread???
lordvader82 Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 I tried some silver solder from farnell (or RS), and though it was easy to use, it was a very dirty solder, gummying up my iron with flux residue quite a bit (can't remember the brand though, may have been a lead free solder ...). I'm currently using the Cardas quad eutectic (purchased from partsconnexion), and it flows beautifully, and leaves nice, shiny joins. I'm not gonna comment on the sound. In all seriousness, whose going to reflow a crap load of solder joins to do an A/B comparison ?
Guest guru Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 not to contradict the technicans amongst us but bill johnson of audio research fame relayed a story to me years ago regarding an assembly worker who was staying back one evening working on an sp-8 preamp and mr johnson was walking out and enquired what was the issue with the unit. the tech said he was building his own personal sp-8 and was using a new solder and wanted to do it out of work hours so as not to get his unit mixed up with stock production.mr johnson enquired as to what was so special about the solder and the responce was simply that it was wondersolder.well if it's so wonderful,bring it up stairs when you finish and we will have a listen. 3evenings later ,mr johnson,and some of the techs were up there to hear the new wondersolder sp-8 and have a quiet chuckle at their co worker about to be embarrased in front of the boss. the next day all production was changed to include wondersolder as the only product to be used for solderable electrical connections. still available as wonder ultraclear solder. regards,guru.
Nolz Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 might just be me but that link doesn't work strange....here's it again... http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php?t=8422
Guest Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 I use WBT solder flows nicely and I have tried Audio Note solder and that flowed better than the WBT .Having a soldering iron that can hold temp while in use is a must ,no need for excess pressure or holding pressure . Cheers
A9X Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Of course not. Just use good quality regular solder. I use Multicore Savbitâ„¢, which has excellent flux (far more important than anything else) and a trace of copper. If you want silver content solder, then RS and Farnell sell excellent products. I use them as well, but only when clients demand it (the customer is always right) or if I want a slightly stonger joint (silver solder is stronger). Sound-wise, there is no difference. I've also used Savbit for ages and it makes an excellent joint, easily. Be stuffed if I could remember the name this morning.Lead free solders require hotter iron temps and are more difficult for beginners to cope with, without damaging PCBs and components. The joints don't look as nice either. It's like many things however. It is probably a matter of time before lead solder will be completely phased out. As I only have hobbyist levels of use these days, I have stocked up to be sure I have lots on hand, and when it is announced that it will go, I'll get more. Pb free is ugly to work with.Fundamentally, your FIRST worry should be to acquire a GOOD temperature controlled soldering station (keep the sponge wet!) and good quality (not silver) solder. As I stated, I have a soft spot for Multicore products. I have done, for more than 40 years. Then you need to practice. Soldering is an art AND a science. Read up and get some first hand instruction and you'll be sweet. I agree with everything, except the sponge. I use a steel wool item I got from Jaycar and it keeps the tip temp far more constant. It's similar to this (I like Goot soldering gear)http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TS1510&CATID=29&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=299 So can we relegate silver solder to the audio myths thread???Yes.
Bosk Posted January 7, 2009 Author Posted January 7, 2009 Thanks very much for your welcomes & responses guys, I hadn't expected much interest in the topic so I'm very grateful. From what's been said I think I'll be better off going with a non-silver based solder as I'd like to avoid the extra cost if my ears won't notice the difference. I've read that the Cardas solder is easy to work with so I might grab a small roll of it and see what I think. Just one further question though- is it really so important to have a temperature-adjustable soldering iron for modding amps/CDP's/DAC's etc? I've gone through all the soldering training tutorials over at http://www.tangentsoft.net/elec/movies/ and the bloke who does them specifically urges the purchase of a cheap <30W iron, claiming that more expensive ones are not necessary for this kind of work. I don't mean to disagree with anyone, but I'd really like to hear your reasons for why a more expensive soldering iron is needed. Cheers.
Monkeyboi Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 I don't mean to disagree with anyone, but I'd really like to hear your reasons for why a more expensive soldering iron is needed.Cheers. Good temperature control and the ability to maintain it and deliver enough heat energy quickly to the joint is critical IMO. Also selecting the right tip type and size for the job is also equally important along with cleanliness is next to Godliness rule. A good soldering technique is something you develop with time. Years ago (and I means years ago), the ABC used to run a darn good high reliability soldering course for their techs. Soldering used to be taught in the TAFEs a few years back too, but now with card jockeys dominating the electronics industry does anyone except ZB repair things? Cheers, Alan R.
A9X Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 I've read that the Cardas solder is easy to work with so I might grab a small roll of it and see what I think.Get some of this instead. I doubt the Cardas will be cheaper.http://au.farnell.com/multicore-solder/ds18-500g-reel/solder-wire-savbit-1-22mm-500g/dp/419450 Good temperature control and the ability to maintain it and deliver enough heat energy quickly to the joint is critical IMO. Also selecting the right tip type and size for the job is also equally important along with cleanliness is next to Godliness rule. I concur.If you're serious about this the Goot irons from Jaycar are excellent as are Weller and Haiko units. A good secondhand unit would be fine, and I much prefer to control temperature via a knob than changing a tip like some Weller models. My Weller is 20yo, but I would buy one of these if looking to replace it. I like and buy quality tools whenever I can. http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TS1440&CATID=29&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=627 Maybe someone has experience with the 2 $100 units from Jaycar or an alternative? A good soldering technique is something you develop with time. Years ago (and I means years ago), the ABC used to run a darn good high reliability soldering course for their techs. Soldering used to be taught in the TAFEs a few years back too, but now with card jockeys dominating the electronics industry does anyone except ZB repair things? Cheers, Alan R. I did a similar week long, intensive course many years ago and worked with some fastidious Engineers, but I admit I've gottten lazy.Very few people repair stuff any more so the skills base is dying off or moving elsewhere like I did. I don't enjoy repair work much so I don't do it, but I still get calls from a couple of MI shops wanting guitar amp work done. Not worth the hassle for the money.
Batty Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 On my last Soldering certification we were informed that lead free solder is causing reliability problems and the aerospace industry is looking at phasing it out.
Guest Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 On my last Soldering certification we were informed that lead free solder is causing reliability problems and the aerospace industry is looking at phasing it out. Nasa have some very interesting photos of lead free soldered circuit boards ,things floating around in space can be expensive to fix . Cheers
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