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Posted
  On 24/05/2016 at 10:18 PM, Darren69 said:

Ooh, tough there Brother Kaynin, pollie stuff is heavy lifting. No one likes you or wants you to 'succeed'. Nova peris and Pete might go to the pub this week.

 

 

 

Lol.  It was his farcical introduction of the home insulation policy that caused the death of electricians and burnt homes down that lost me...  ;)  He did take full responsibility too...

 

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/home-insulation-inquiry-peter-garrett-takes-ultimate-responsibility-20140513-zrbnw.html

Posted
  On 24/05/2016 at 10:23 PM, Kaynin said:

Lol.  It was his farcical introduction of the home insulation policy that caused the death of electricians and burnt homes down that lost me...  ;)  He did take full responsibility too...

 

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/home-insulation-inquiry-peter-garrett-takes-ultimate-responsibility-20140513-zrbnw.html

That was a strange turn of events. One would have thought the contractor would have had a duty of care for their employees, the same as any other worksite. Not sure why Garret fell on the sword over that one but it's strange times we live in I guess.

Plenty of deaduns throughout other industries and arena's (roads, construction, horse racing etc) and no one falls on their sword there.

I digress.

  • Like 6
Guest Sime
Posted

Yes, the death of anyone on a work site has only the people at the work site to blame.

If an individual is fearing his safety at risk, walk.

Posted

In politics always comes the death of idealism. Even Bob Brown had to bend with the leanings of his party (and eventually quit as a result). Same with all who go in as idealists. PG fell on his sword for the greater good (supposedly) as every idea and policy in the first Rudd government were Rudd's and Rudd's alone.

 

And the Oils, like it or not, were defined by the 'big, weird, bald guy' prancing around out the front. Yes, they had great songwriters and songs, but without Garrett on point, they would have been just another good Aussie rock band.

 

So what if he failed as a pollie? John Hewson did and I don't think any the less of him for that. And Garrett and the Oils might still have something to say which could not be said due to party politics.

  • Like 5
Posted

@@Cloth Ears

Good post and yes, Hewson is a genius but didn't connect/oil up the voters like the street smart Blue Heeler he was up against. That election taught me a lot about the Aussie voters mindset. Is that an oxymoron?

All part ovvit.

I enjoyed the Oils mostly as a good rock band, tight and extremely talented. I found the political messages tiring. Music is an escape for me, if I want that stuff I'll switch on the news.

Posted
  On 24/05/2016 at 11:19 PM, Cloth Ears said:

PG fell on his sword for the greater good (supposedly) as every idea and policy in the first Rudd government were Rudd's and Rudd's alone.  But Garrett was briefed to implement the program, and failed dismally.  He was out of his depth, which cost lives and homes - and that's why he took responsibility.

 

So what if he failed as a pollie? John Hewson did and I don't think any the less of him for that. And Garrett and the Oils might still have something to say which could not be said due to party politics.  We're all judged by the totality of our actions and words.  I don't choose to select what I want in order to maintain an ideology of someone.  I judge Garrett by all his actions as a musician as well as his politics, because that's what's he's done.  That's the facts.  I did reference this in my initial post, I respect the band for their connection to their fans and local community, but lose respect for Garrett's later actions.

Posted
  On 24/05/2016 at 10:37 PM, Sime said:

Yes, the death of anyone on a work site has only the people at the work site to blame.

If an individual is fearing his safety at risk, walk.

 

Eh?  So you don't think the employer holds any responsibilities?  :unsure:

Guest Sime
Posted

Eh? Do you want me to explain to you like a three year old what I said?

Weather your boss is at the site or not, and let's say garret is the "boss" it's the people who are actually working onsite who are responsible for the safety of the people onsite.

If you were told to do something you know is not safe, it's your choice as to whether you comply or not.

It's not rocket science.

Posted
  On 24/05/2016 at 11:35 PM, Kaynin said:

PG fell on his sword for the greater good (supposedly) as every idea and policy in the first Rudd government were Rudd's and Rudd's alone.  But Garrett was briefed to implement the program, and failed dismally.  He was out of his depth, which cost lives and homes - and that's why he took responsibility. Well, I disagree totally with your opinion, but let's leave it at that.

 

So what if he failed as a pollie? John Hewson did and I don't think any the less of him for that. And Garrett and the Oils might still have something to say which could not be said due to party politics.  We're all judged by the totality of our actions and words.  I don't choose to select what I want in order to maintain an ideology of someone.  I judge Garrett by all his actions as a musician as well as his politics, because that's what's he's done.  That's the facts.  I did reference this in my initial post, I respect the band for their connection to their fans and local community, but lose respect for Garrett's later actions. Whereas I only judge people on the areas of their lives that I want to judge them. Wayne Carey was a screw-up everywhere except on the football field (and as a commentator) and I judge those areas separately. Similarly just about any singer who's tried to be an actor or vice versa.

BUT

If nobody tried anything new, then we'd all be still sitting on our arses waiting for lightening to give us fire (and our dinner would be cold). So I would never judge anybody by the totality of their actions and words - more the intent and the effort - unless they are a complete failure. Although, even a complete failure is better than someone who never tried anything new.

  • Like 2
Posted
  On 24/05/2016 at 11:57 PM, Sime said:

Eh? Do you want me to explain to you like a three year old what I said?

 

 

This is where you've lost me.  Save your breath and attitude for someone else.

Posted
  On 24/05/2016 at 11:58 PM, Cloth Ears said:

 

  On 24/05/2016 at 11:35 PM, Kaynin said:

PG fell on his sword for the greater good (supposedly) as every idea and policy in the first Rudd government were Rudd's and Rudd's alone.  But Garrett was briefed to implement the program, and failed dismally.  He was out of his depth, which cost lives and homes - and that's why he took responsibility. Well, I disagree totally with your opinion, but let's leave it at that.

 

So what if he failed as a pollie? John Hewson did and I don't think any the less of him for that. And Garrett and the Oils might still have something to say which could not be said due to party politics.  We're all judged by the totality of our actions and words.  I don't choose to select what I want in order to maintain an ideology of someone.  I judge Garrett by all his actions as a musician as well as his politics, because that's what's he's done.  That's the facts.  I did reference this in my initial post, I respect the band for their connection to their fans and local community, but lose respect for Garrett's later actions. Whereas I only judge people on the areas of their lives that I want to judge them. Wayne Carey was a screw-up everywhere except on the football field (and as a commentator) and I judge those areas separately. Similarly just about any singer who's tried to be an actor or vice versa.

BUT

If nobody tried anything new, then we'd all be still sitting on our arses waiting for lightening to give us fire (and our dinner would be cold). So I would never judge anybody by the totality of their actions and words - more the intent and the effort - unless they are a complete failure. Although, even a complete failure is better than someone who never tried anything new.

 

 

 

Yep, we'll certainly agree to disagree @@Cloth Ears, but it's all good, I've taken the time to listen to your points, as you've not doubt done with me.

 

Now, back to the music themed thread!

  • Like 1
Guest Hensa
Posted

I'm with Cloth Ears on this one. There are so many great artists with screwed up aspects to other parts of their lives that I prefer to remember by their music rather than by failings in these other areas. Midnight Oil were/are an iconic Aussie band, possibly my all-time favourite that I will only ever judge by their music and their live performances. No issues if others want to judge them based on other factors but when I listen to Stand In Line, Jimmy Sharman's Boxers or Cold Cold Change, the last thing I'm thinking about is Peter Garrett walking the halls of Parliament House in his suit and tie.

Guest Sime
Posted
  On 25/05/2016 at 12:00 AM, Kaynin said:

This is where you've lost me.  Save your breath and attitude for someone else.

Relax mate.

Posted
  On 25/05/2016 at 12:03 AM, Kaynin said:

Yep, we'll certainly agree to disagree @@Cloth Ears, but it's all good, I've taken the time to listen to your points, as you've not doubt done with me.

 

Now, back to the music themed thread!

This is why I love this site!

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

As a person, I think Garrett is a champion in that he had a go after years of throwing mud from the sidelines. The machine had it's way with him and without any dinner and dancing first but he had a go.

It is interesting that his political career has affected (or is it effected?) how his musical career is perceived. Hopefully he can go back to doing what he does best. That's just my 2c :D

I love this song-

Edited by Darren69

Guest Muon
Posted
  On 24/05/2016 at 10:34 PM, Darren69 said:

That was a strange turn of events. One would have thought the contractor would have had a duty of care for their employees, the same as any other worksite. Not sure why Garret fell on the sword over that one but it's strange times we live in I guess.

Plenty of deaduns throughout other industries and arena's (roads, construction, horse racing etc) and no one falls on their sword there.

I digress.

It was stupid how the blame came upon the Gov', it was as you point out the dumb arse contractors that got unqualified and inexperienced guys up in the roof to do those jobs, they were at fault and only them.

 

Funny how a large part of the population could not see the reality of this.

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 25/05/2016 at 12:45 AM, Muon said:

It was stupid how the blame came upon the Gov', it was as you point out the dumb arse contractors that got unqualified and inexperienced guys up in the roof to do those jobs, they were at fault and only them.

 

Funny how a large part of the population could not see the reality of this.

Well, everyone here knows I am a meeja basher but the fact is they rely on ignorance or lack of experience in a given area to get away with untruths and agitation, which somehow 'sells papers' (or these days makes it 'clickable').

I only wonder about the Garret example because I have a construction background, then managing labour hire and now project management. Any tenders we award require no end of demonstration of a given tenderers safety systems before they get a look in and it is made very clear that the successful contractor is the 'Principal Contractor', in other words, the buck stops with them.

WorkCover (or whatever they are called now) processes and procedures have required site safety inductions etc for decades now. I remember it all being introduced through the civil construction industry throughout the early 90's.

This is in hindsight of course, the intent was to get large amounts of cash into society and quickly, to help us ride the GFC wave, which I believe we did very well, as a country. However, 'quickly' does usually also mean 'cut corners' and 'attract shonkies'.

But as Brother-from-another-mother-Kaynin sez, back to the music!!

  • Like 1
Guest Muon
Posted

Agreed, the Gov' plan worked and we avoided the economical pain that most counties suffered.

 

Stupid contractors and yeah, the media sux for how they manipulate the unwashed.

Posted

I have a problem with all ex-Politicians as they do absolutely nothing when they have the power but after they leave  politics they suddenly get a passion for saving the world. It just becomes a business for them. Maybe Garret had the best of intentions but his record speaks for itself and he destroyed any credibility he ever had. You don't write songs like the Oils did and then conveniently forget what you were singing about for a few years and then expect to pick up where you left off.

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 25/05/2016 at 3:25 AM, Jumbuck said:

I have a problem with all ex-Politicians as they do absolutely nothing when they have the power but after they leave  politics they suddenly get a passion for saving the world. It just becomes a business for them. Maybe Garret had the best of intentions but his record speaks for itself and he destroyed any credibility he ever had. You don't write songs like the Oils did and then conveniently forget what you were singing about for a few years and then expect to pick up where you left off.

Haven't heard any new stuff, is that what's happening cos yes, that would come across a bit hollow now, haha.

Posted
  On 25/05/2016 at 3:25 AM, Jumbuck said:

I have a problem with all ex-Politicians as they do absolutely nothing when they have the power but after they leave  politics they suddenly get a passion for saving the world. It just becomes a business for them. Maybe Garret had the best of intentions but his record speaks for itself and he destroyed any credibility he ever had. You don't write songs like the Oils did and then conveniently forget what you were singing about for a few years and then expect to pick up where you left off.

I don't.

A particular analogue strikes me reading this. You have a coffee cart. You do it your way, but you want to reach a broader audience, you want the world to enjoy great coffee. So you get a job at Starbucks and work your way to middle management. You try and make changes but what you try is distorted by the organisation and the power structurpe. Its a flop. Your great beans idea is squashed by demands for high volumes, low prices and corporately acceptable suppliers/ supply chains etc. So you quit and buy back your old coffee cart. Does that mean you have to sell starbucks coffee, or can you go back to doing your own thing.

I've worked for multinations and government. Its remarkable how similar large organisations can be. Its the people / organisation factor.

I'm fine if Peter wants to go back to brewing and selling the good stuff. As others have said, he gave it a shot, 93 degrees and 9 bar of pressure. Clearly he did not have the skill set to cut it in the roughest game in town, but maybe he can still play at the level that suits him best.

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)

The Tivoli in Brisbane would be amazing. Hoodoo Gurus were great at that venue.

No wineries tour. I don't care for Siromet events much.

Edited by Briz Vegas

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