davewantsmoore Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 hehe looks like we are well and truly stressing the cable standards with uhd release.... its not often you have a reviewer declare that something sucks...well its official hdmi sucks .... its been caught with its pants on fire ...everyone will remember hdmi org officially declaring there are only two standards..... standard speed and high speed high speed was supposed to do it all...well guess what either the standard is not very well policed or they have been well and truly caught out ! as it happens its a real mine field people are finding ...cables that were high speed...people aren't finding are working...cables declared to pass 4k and 18 GBPS are being found to not work....even the ones declared as "active" with a chip to over come length issues have been found wanting.... and in some cases not even working.... I only skim read the article, so I can't tell if the guy knows this or not (but it seemed not) There has recently been a third category of cable certification added. The standard and high-speed cables are only tested to 10.2gbps .... ie. they might operate up to 18gbps, but they didn't have to reliably, to pass the certification. The new standard tests cables out to 18gbps (ie. new test equipment) .... and mandates that premium cables have a label attached (see pic), which has a hologram and a code that you can lookup, so see the manufacturer and length of cable certified. That's to try and curb the issue that lots of cables claiming to be certified, actually haven't been. You can get a 1.5m "premium certified" cable for ~$30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 cables declared to pass 4k and 18 GBPS are being found to not work Declared that way only by the manufacturers ..... and not by the HDMI standards certification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 They had 3m DS Premium cables when i grabbed that Belkin this morning, they were said to be 4k capable on the packet and were 5 bucks each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 They had 3m DS Premium cables when i grabbed that Belkin this morning, they were said to be 4k capable on the packet and were 5 bucks each. Seems such a Russian roulette as it is an interaction of components and what feeding through it would seem. where some cables seem to work and some don't...regardless of what they are "said to be" and certified or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 If someone want to suck and see... The celerity range of fibre optic hdmi is worth checking out, people are saying fibre optic should work regardless and over long distances... http://www.radioparts.com.au/search-products?productsearch=Celerity Of course no certification, cables are delicate though about half the price of the audio quest...who wants to roll the dice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agelessgoodguy Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 (edited) Recent TV upgrade from 63" Sammy Plasma to 75" Sony left me in no doubt about HDMI hand shaking issues, my Marantz 8801 worked flawlessly with the Sammy and only by manually locking each individual inputs video signal can the Sony see it, but then the native 576i output from the amp still cannot be seen & cannot be adjusted, yes the TV is a 4K unit. Sony KD75X9300. Edited April 20, 2016 by agelessgoodguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 somehow not surprised ! so cant pass plain old 576i ? there you go ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 They had 3m DS Premium cables when i grabbed that Belkin this morning, they were said to be 4k capable on the packet and were 5 bucks each. Did it have the tag pictured in my post above? (I'd be sure they didn't). Manufacturers aren't allowed to promote a cable as being "4k compatible".... (that is against the HDMI licensing terms) .... only as: standard, high speed, or now - premium.... and any of those 3 "with ethernet" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 pay a max of $6 for a 3mtr HDMI 2.0..... If you purchased a "HDMI 2.0" cable.... it is almost certainly rubbish. Any proper manufacturer would know they're breaching the license terms by calling it that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Seems such a Russian roulette as it is an interaction of components and what feeding through it would seem. where some cables seem to work and some don't...regardless of what they are "said to be" and certified or not... Did you read my post? The very telling thing emerging now ..... is seeing which manufacturers high-speed cables are passing the premium cable test, without modification (ie. were capable of 18gbps all along..... which technically they should have been --- even though they only had to reach 10.2gbps to get the high speed cert) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 (edited) HDMI hand shaking issues If you haven't already, try turning off HDMI CEC Try another cable? Warranty your TV? A big deal I know ..... (HDMI can be easily 'faulty' in a device - there is very fast signals which can get real flaky when not terminated right) somehow not surprised ! so cant pass plain old 576i ? there you go ! I tink he's saying when he locks the input to a certain format (which gets it working) .... then he's unable to bring up the AVR menu on that input (which is 576i, ie. not the resolution it's locked to) ... apologies if I misinterpreted though. Edited April 20, 2016 by davewantsmoore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 (edited) @@davewantsmoore I don't give a toss what you think in relation to my comment. Edited April 20, 2016 by Muon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted April 21, 2016 Author Share Posted April 21, 2016 I had to laugh... with someone asking what is the most viable option for a 15 - 20ft run i.e. something for 4.5 - 6m the response from someone very experienced and selling uhd gear on one of the forums was..... "Right now, the most viable option is conduit." what ever you put in ... get ready to change it out ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 @@davewantsmoore I don't give a toss what you think in relation to my comment. Eh? What's the fuss about? Just trying to work out if the "premium" cable you mentioned..... is actually a "certified premium" cable. Cos for 6 bucks, everyone should go buy one, well spotted. Do you recall if it had the label? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agelessgoodguy Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 If you haven't already, try turning off HDMI CEC Try another cable? Warranty your TV? A big deal I know ..... (HDMI can be easily 'faulty' in a device - there is very fast signals which can get real flaky when not terminated right) I tink he's saying when he locks the input to a certain format (which gets it working) .... then he's unable to bring up the AVR menu on that input (which is 576i, ie. not the resolution it's locked to) ... apologies if I misinterpreted though. argh with the Maratz each input is given its own set of video credentials from 480 up to 4k or auto, auto doesn't work with much except OPPO 105 and Foxtel, all other inputs had to be set to a value the TV can see, but its the native 576i video from the amp that's lost to the TV, say when I tune in a normal FM radio station for example, on the TV screen I simply get "no connection, try another input message" When in reality it should be showing the station, the ticker info and what's playing and what's up next etc. I'll try the cable swap next, no harm done..... TY. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 @@davewantsmoore I don't give a toss what you think in relation to my comment. If this is to do with me saying "manufacturers aren't allowed to label a cable like that" ...... it isn't what "I think".... it's what the HDMI licensing agreement says. Don't shoot the messenger? eeep? (hides) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) Eh? What's the fuss about? Just trying to work out if the "premium" cable you mentioned..... is actually a "certified premium" cable. Cos for 6 bucks, everyone should go buy one, well spotted. Do you recall if it had the label? I mentioned what I saw printed on the packaging, maybe it was that premium one or another HDMI cable, while I was looking through them in store. You appeared to question this in your responce. That's all. Frankly I don't care about standards as many in the industry often don't either Edit: I can come across a bit strongly when I react to something, that sometimes can be just a miscommunication. Edited April 21, 2016 by Muon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 standards That's IMHO exactly what this thread is about..... when people in the industry are dropping the ball with standards ..... that's exactly when consumers should start caring more. Manufacturers have known for quite some time that 18gbps was coming .... they've had time to achieve it ..... if their cables were any good in the first place, they wouldn't need to change anything anyways (great 'high-speed' certified cables, will pass the 'premium' cert). It's really sad IMO.... so I can understand why you'd be jaded about it. Good lord.... another trash article, like the one posted earlier. At least these guys knew about the new standard of measurement I guess. http://www.cnet.com/au/news/premium-hdmi-cable-certification-program-what-you-need-to-know/ >_< PS - I'm surprised nobody has asked where we can buy the "$30 1.5m premium certified HDMI cable". Holograms. We are living in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 @@davewantsmoore Look around you, Dave. A standardised world is more a concept than it is a reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 @@davewantsmoore Look around you, Dave. A standardised world is more a concept than it is a reality The reality is..... that if there is a standard, which people are expecting to be followed .... that isn't followed ..... unhappiness is the result. I see standards for just about everything which is technical in nature. Imagine if you bought a phone labeled as "NextG compatible" (a Telstra trademark, which guarantees it meets a certain technical standard). ..... but it didn't work on the Telstra NextG network .... because it lied about meeting the standard. We wouldn't say "oh well such is life" (would we?). The standards are there for a good reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Bottom line is..... I don't care enough, Dave. There are more important things in life that I rather save that energy for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted April 21, 2016 Author Share Posted April 21, 2016 standards would be nice....and we have a standard....problem we have is makers who dont follow it to the letter to meet the spec. to be fair the spec was a touch loose i.e. people could use the hdmi logo plaster all sorts and there wasnt any guarantee it would meet all that. the problem is also associated with interlinking equipment ... i.e. you could use a cable that was say appropriately rated ...however you could have a piece of gear hooked up one end e.g. the new sammy uhd blu-ray player that doesnt quite meet spec. and which is why in some cases people cant run direct player to display...have to insert an avr in between. why longer cables wont work even ones with all the stamps... certification ? talk to the makers...they aren't satisfied with the process...especially where cables e.g. the active ones that might work will not pass the test. then there is the issue that hdmi org mails out the certification labels...so can just stick them onto any old sh!te no guarantee you are actually getting something that is indeed certified. it sure is a mine field.... I hope the mine squad (early adopters) have cleared a clean enough path by the time I have to make my way through...which may not be all that long away ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Bottom line is..... I don't care enough, Dave. There are more important things in life that I rather save that energy for. Thanks for letting us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Thanks for letting us know. Your welcome, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 to be fair the spec was a touch loose Do you mean cable specs? I really don't understand how they are loose. ... aside from the problem that until this year, there weren't (m)any premium certified cables available ..... and so we had a situation where there were devices which could call for more bandwidth than consumers had certified cables for. (ie. consumers had no reliable way of working out which cables were good enough) As mentioned, good manufacturers have known about this for ages, and have updated their cables long ago to pass their own in-house test for 18gbps / 600mhz. e.g. the active ones that might work AFAIUI .... The fastest active cables right now use chips which cannot support more than 10.2gbps... so none could possibly pass the premium certification. Do you know if that's right? so can just stick them onto any old sh!te no guarantee you are actually getting something that is indeed certified. They have addressed this in the new certification. It has a hologram and a code on the tag. You can look the code up online and it tells you the exact cable (and length) which is certified. For premium, manufacturers now have to individually certify each specific length they sell. which may not be all that long away ! As long as you get compliant 2.0b devices, and use a certified cable, you should have no worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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