Building the ideal(ish) Music Server

[AccMagi7s]

9 minutes ago, Jhya said:

Thanks Chanh, I'm not sure why my AD2700-ITX won't boot with the SOtM PCI. I've tried a regular computer ATX PSU, same thing. The motherboard takes other PCI cards just fine, and the SOTM boots up in other MB just fine too. Is it the version 3.2 of the SOtM PCI needs a firmware update?

1. My SSD is powered by the 5vdc from JS-2.

2. The SOtM PCI is directly from the 12vdc of the PICO PSU.

3. Is the ATX-management board your long awaited ATX board with all independent rails? So you've got rid of the 3.3vdc shunt regulator and instead all 3 rails are powered by Linear PSU? I would very much love to try the board!

Can you try power Sotm PCI on its own 12vdc? And SSD via pico. Your current wiring is lacking current at boot if 12vdc rail is sharing both by PCI and pico. 

[BioBrian]

2 hours ago, Jhya said:

Its a Z2-ATX-200 PSU

 

 

This is the same pico I had so much trouble with. It only booted 1 in about 4 tries.

The PW-200-M(C) has been faultless in 2 different servers, and is upgradable with Tasso's recommended caps.

[Yarland]

Hi Chanh,

I'm a new member, and may I offer my thanks to you and to Tasso for your generous and professional work on this topic. Also to Snakeoil for pointing me here, and for helping me finally get a Linux based OS that is simple and flexible to use, particularly for those of us who want to listen to music rather than struggle with Linux commands.

Improving CA has eluded me for a long time, there is so much contradiction out there that I gave up some time ago and decided to put up with a laptop until someone came along who made some practical sense. It seems there is no shortage of that in WA and group testing SQ with a world class system at each stage makes sense to me.

As a consiquence I have ordered the HDPlex-H5, Asrock J3710-ITX with 1r memory and a cheap pico psu and cables to get me started. I will also order the SHAAR Delux board.

I have never joined a forum so please excuse my ignorance in how to go about these things, but I would appreciate any information on the availability of your ATX management and PSU's

[AccMagi7s]

20 hours ago, Yarland said:

Hi Chanh,

I'm a new member, and may I offer my thanks to you and to Tasso for your generous and professional work on this topic. Also to Snakeoil for pointing me here, and for helping me finally get a Linux based OS that is simple and flexible to use, particularly for those of us who want to listen to music rather than struggle with Linux commands.

Improving CA has eluded me for a long time, there is so much contradiction out there that I gave up some time ago and decided to put up with a laptop until someone came along who made some practical sense. It seems there is no shortage of that in WA and group testing SQ with a world class system at each stage makes sense to me.

As a consiquence I have ordered the HDPlex-H5, Asrock J3710-ITX with 1r memory and a cheap pico psu and cables to get me started. I will also order the SHAAR Delux board.

I have never joined a forum so please excuse my ignorance in how to go about these things, but I would appreciate any information on the availability of your ATX management and PSU's

Hi Yarland,

Welcome and many thanks for your kind words.

The credits go to Tasso's, for the initiative and on going funding, both hard-wards, time, and  numerous Liquors at every gtg. 

 

As for the Linear power supplies and ATX, I need a minimal 50 pcbs or more for the overall cost effective (affordable in diy's perspective). Currently, it seems only a few were registered their interests, means I will either have the surplus or pay higher cost price, whichever is a disadvantage. Furthermore, there are three variants, I need the majority's approval which goes ahead;

1. ATX with three separated LPSU(s), 12Vdc, 5Vdc, and 3.3Vdc.

2. ATX with dual separated LPS(s), 12Vdc input supplies both 12vdc and 3.3Vdc via stepdown LDO, and 5Vdc on another lpsu.

3. Pico style, only 12Vdc, to supply all the three rails, via step-down LDO..

As you can see, and based on my rigorous listening experiments, number 1 had the best PRAT and SQ.

 

Currently, I have also been testing and listening to different OS/player(s). To my pleasant surprise, I was very impressed with "wtf-player" which was brought up approx 9-months ago by one member here. It played both PCM and DSD upto DSD128 for my Accuphase DC-950. Link is here on diyaudio: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/287712-wtfplay-project-linux-based-pc-playback-system-12.html

 

Good choice on the Shaar Deluxe. With Shaar Deluxe, it made SOtM card a ripped off whenever you critically compare under the same setup/acoustic's environment.  Nonetheless - it is understandable, when a product, like SOtM, isn't going direct from the maker/supplier, but through layers of distributor, dealership, marketing, and high-end audiophiles' advertising/reviewer ........ 

Note - I do not affiliate with Clone audio other than a pleased customer with a product isn't high-end ripped off price tag. Here to provide the personal's view based on my practical experiments, and happy to take on the challenge should any one from SOtM camp reckon its the best...!

 

Lastly - For those of you having the Accuphase DAC, there is light for Computer Audio through HS-Link! Needlessly saying further, once you try I2S direct, USB is a distance memory, just like DSD against PCM when you have a DSD capable DAC with resolving/revealing capabilities......  

 

 

[Guest rmpfyf]

@Chanh

 

Have you started a thread for the PSU build to gauge numbers (e.g. as people do on diyaudio)? I'd put down for 2x of #1.

 

1 hour ago, Chanh said:

Needlessly saying further, once you try I2S direct, USB is a distance memory, just like DSD against PCM when you have a DSD capable DAC with resolving/revealing capabilities......  

 

Go on...

[Yarland]

9 hours ago, Chanh said:

Hi Yarland,

Welcome and many thanks for your kind words.

The credits go to Tasso's, for the initiative and on going funding, both hard-wards, time, and  numerous Liquors at every gtg. 

 

As for the Linear power supplies and ATX, I need a minimal 50 pcbs or more for the overall cost effective (affordable in diy's perspective). Currently, it seems only a few were registered their interests, means I will either have the surplus or pay higher cost price, whichever is a disadvantage. Furthermore, there are three variants, I need the majority's approval which goes ahead;

1. ATX with three separated LPSU(s), 12Vdc, 5Vdc, and 3.3Vdc.

2. ATX with dual separated LPS(s), 12Vdc input supplies both 12vdc and 3.3Vdc via stepdown LDO, and 5Vdc on another lpsu.

3. Pico style, only 12Vdc, to supply all the three rails, via step-down LDO..

As you can see, and based on my rigorous listening experiments, number 1 had the best PRAT and SQ.

 

Currently, I have also been testing and listening to different OS/player(s). To my pleasant surprise, I was very impressed with "wtf-player" which was brought up approx 9-months ago by one member here. It played both PCM and DSD upto DSD128 for my Accuphase DC-950. Link is here on diyaudio: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/287712-wtfplay-project-linux-based-pc-playback-system-12.html

 

Good choice on the Shaar Deluxe. With Shaar Deluxe, it made SOtM card a ripped off whenever you critically compare under the same setup/acoustic's environment.  Nonetheless - it is understandable, when a product, like SOtM, isn't going direct from the maker/supplier, but through layers of distributor, dealership, marketing, and high-end audiophiles' advertising/reviewer ........ 

Note - I do not affiliate with Clone audio other than a pleased customer with a product isn't high-end ripped off price tag. Here to provide the personal's view based on my practical experiments, and happy to take on the challenge should any one from SOtM camp reckon its the best...!

 

Lastly - For those of you having the Accuphase DAC, there is light for Computer Audio through HS-Link! Needlessly saying further, once you try I2S direct, USB is a distance memory, just like DSD against PCM when you have a DSD capable DAC with resolving/revealing capabilities......  

 

 

Hi Chanh,

Thanks for your reply.

My preference for the ATX LPS would be No.1, so count me in for one. I would also be flexible depending on the numbers. Having said that, my preference for a car is a Mazerati, but reality has always got in the way and as I am now retired, cost will be a consideration.

 

My background is mechanical not electrical, and while I have constructed a tube headphone amp from a kit without fire or death, and make my own cables, I am not in the league represented in this thread. So if I DIY this, please be kind.

 

I have now ordered the Shaar Deluxe.

 

Thanks for the heads-up on the wtf player (love the name)

 

lastly, and sadly, I am not in the Accuphase camp (Maserti synrome).

Edited January 23, 2017 by Yarland

[qwerter]

@Chanh

Hi Chanh,

I've sent you few PM's. Did you get them?

[BioBrian]

@Chanh, please add me to the #1 list. (Only 46 to go...)

 

Can you recommend a 3.3V supply to get on with in the meantime? (If it involves Hashi, I can order the other 2 as well).

 

Does the motherboard still have to break down to 1.35V for the RAM, or is this done on your board?

[AccMagi7s]

2 hours ago, qwerter said:

@Chanh

Hi Chanh,

I've sent you few PM's. Did you get them?

No, I did not - Leo. Can you pls check if you've actually sent them to me?

Edited January 23, 2017 by Chanh

[Jventer]

@chanh

I am interested in option 1.

My alternative would be Microrendu or SOTM product so please keep me up to date re costs etc.

Thanks a lot

[AccMagi7s]

9 hours ago, rmpfyf said:

@Chanh

Go on...

@rmpfyf I have sent you a pm with regards to hslink.  Best discuses this privately, hey? Pretty sure you can contribute into this too given your Linux's attribute .

 

2 hours ago, BioBrian said:

@Chanh, please add me to the #1 list. (Only 46 to go...)

 

Can you recommend a 3.3V supply to get on with in the meantime? (If it involves Hashi, I can order the other 2 as well).

 

Does the motherboard still have to break down to 1.35V for the RAM, or is this done on your board?

@BioBrian JS-2 does not do 3.3vdc from stock. Given the build configuration, modification is possible, however, heat dissipation is of concern. The stock AL case is simply inadequate in term of heat dissipation. The amount of energy from 18Vdc after choke and regulated down to 3.3vdc, yields lot of heat, unless the transformer is down size from 21VAC to 15-12VAC. If you are doing that, the JS-2 can tailor for 5vdc and 3.3vdc.

[BioBrian]

8 minutes ago, Chanh said:

JS-2 does not do 3.3vdc from stock.

 

Thanks @Chanh. I have a JS-2 now, which will obviously be right to supply 12 and 5V, but I'm wondering what you DO recommend for supplying 3.3V to your new PCB.

 

I've seen lots of attractive power supplies in your constructions, but would like to know what is out there for me to acquire for this purpose. Do you have a favourite that you can recommend please?

[AccMagi7s]

1 hour ago, BioBrian said:

I've seen lots of attractive power supplies in your constructions, but would like to know what is out there for me to acquire for this purpose. Do you have a favourite that you can recommend please?

Sorry Brian, not off the shelves.

I can put together a 3.3vdc at 5Amps for you if you like? Choice of Jensen 4 pole or Sikorel reservoir caps.

W.r.t the RAM's power requirement, it can be tricky but not impossible. Yes, it is 1.5vdc or 1.35vdc pending the RAM's specs. I would recommended 1.5vdc psu if you are thinking of going down that route. Note - it can be complicated but not impossible. Will require surgery to your mobo and remove a couple IC/smds.

[Guest rmpfyf]

1 hour ago, Chanh said:

W.r.t the RAM's power requirement, it can be tricky but not impossible. Yes, it is 1.5vdc or 1.35vdc pending the RAM's specs. I would recommended 1.5vdc psu if you are thinking of going down that route. Note - it can be complicated but not impossible. Will require surgery to your mobo and remove a couple IC/smds.

 

Anyone tried this? Could be (sincerely) useful, PCH too. 

[kukynas]

I'm not sure if change of RAM or PCH psu would make sense, you'll need to consider controller management in case of RAM as every mainboard these days has capability of working with different RAM voltages i.e 1.5V as well as 1.35V (depended on RAM controller) so unless you know "how to" it'll be tricky, don't forget proper voltage has to be recognized and mapped to BIOS, PCH would require several voltages i.e. 3.3V/1.2V etc. for different part of the chip so little more complex than just one wire...but might be fun to try and experiment  

[Guest rmpfyf]

RAM would be the simpler of the two but it'd leave you with some very limited settings and the possibility of getting it wrong in BIOS etc.

 

Get the PCH right and a nice clock into it and one may not need a USB card (or similar) after all.

 

Both are interesting but a lot of work. 

 

Never mind, I'm confident that within a few years this thread will grow into a group buy for an audiophile motherboard.... it's headed in that direction  

[Jhya]

8 hours ago, Chanh said:

Sorry Brian, not off the shelves.

I can put together a 3.3vdc at 5Amps for you if you like? Choice of Jensen 4 pole or Sikorel reservoir caps.

W.r.t the RAM's power requirement, it can be tricky but not impossible. Yes, it is 1.5vdc or 1.35vdc pending the RAM's specs. I would recommended 1.5vdc psu if you are thinking of going down that route. Note - it can be complicated but not impossible. Will require surgery to your mobo and remove a couple IC/smds.

@Chanh please put me down for 2 of your boards, option #1 too!

For your power supply, would you be able to do something like 3 in 1 with all three rails, 12vdc, 5vdc, 3.3vdc, in a single box? I would definitely be interested in that too!

[AccMagi7s]

7 hours ago, kukynas said:

I'm not sure if change of RAM or PCH psu would make sense, you'll need to consider controller management in case of RAM as every mainboard these days has capability of working with different RAM voltages i.e 1.5V as well as 1.35V (depended on RAM controller) so unless you know "how to" it'll be tricky, don't forget proper voltage has to be recognized and mapped to BIOS, PCH would require several voltages i.e. 3.3V/1.2V etc. for different part of the chip so little more complex than just one wire...but might be fun to try and experiment  

I have so many mobos those I bought for testing recently. Could let them go at half the price for those interested or should I continue to molest them until they're burn out?

Do you find, with ram rated as low voltage when set via bios at 1.5vdc improved performance? Not so sure about the SQ, but loading time of OS and operation appeared faster. I have not yet tried power the ram separately, however, I did look into it and sort of doing the educated guess of how to implement. Could be a total disaster but like you said, it is fun doing.

Btw - how did you go with your new server? Any infor you could share with us here?

 

1 hour ago, rmpfyf said:

Never mind, I'm confident that within a few years this thread will grow into a group buy for an audiophile motherboard.... it's headed in that direction  

When you look into the $20k+ Aurender W20, at its heart after all is an itx-mobo with pci interface. Pretty much untouched like the Antipodes DX, an original stock mobo of the shelves. What made the W20 special is its PCI interface that is proprietary design output stage, for dedicated nice well refined "Clock", and others' refined inputs/outputs. Of course its in-house Linux OS, too. Hopefully one day, we can diver into the level of their output stage.  Then again, if I have the direct i2s for DSD sorted, why would one bother with USB?

[AccMagi7s]

2 hours ago, Jhya said:

@Chanh please put me down for 2 of your boards, option #1 too!

For your power supply, would you be able to do something like 3 in 1 with all three rails, 12vdc, 5vdc, 3.3vdc, in a single box? I would definitely be interested in that too!

Hi Jeff, that is what I am using for my i3-6100 server. After server experiments, I decided to re-introduce back the choke into the 12vdc as choke filter, and it is supplying 12vdc into OPAmp for the two, 5vdc, 3.3vdc psu units, those are only CRC filtered for faster responding.

 

Edit: How did you go with your ASRock AD2700/pico/SOtM PCI booting issue?

Edited January 24, 2017 by Chanh

[Guest rmpfyf]

@Chanh.... so is this the 'official' group buy thread :D?

 

My 'lower end' PC will remain USB. When I get around to it I'll go I2S out for the better one.

 

I get better SQ at 1.5V for the same speed and latency settings. Admittedly it's a slightly higher duty rate on the VRM, and a multiple of my CPU speed. Would be interested to hear how others travel here.

Edited January 24, 2017 by rmpfyf

[kukynas]

7 hours ago, Chanh said:

I have so many mobos those I bought for testing recently. Could let them go at half the price for those interested or should I continue to molest them until they're burn out?

Do you find, with ram rated as low voltage when set via bios at 1.5vdc improved performance? Not so sure about the SQ, but loading time of OS and operation appeared faster. I have not yet tried power the ram separately, however, I did look into it and sort of doing the educated guess of how to implement. Could be a total disaster but like you said, it is fun doing.

 

I think the biggest chalange will be to find out how the PWM controller works with RAM voltage regulator, if I'm right it does check RAM voltage type during BIOS posting before it starts supplying power and checks back if RAM module behave properly, now if you supply your own power to your RAM module it might not be recognized or the whole bypass might be screwed up because regulator supply doesn't match your voltage supply but that's just guess

 

7 hours ago, Chanh said:

Btw - how did you go with your new server? Any infor you could share with us here?

  

SSD was on backorder so no sooner than next week, trany won't be ready before chinese new year's finished, pico PSU wasn't available so I had to obtain different one but again due to CNY it won't be ready to ship earlier than middle of February, it seems like I won't do much before end of Feb  

 

at the end I ordered low latency 1.2V RAM modules so let's see how it behaves

 

in the meantime I plan to work on I2S DSD512 add on solution but need to find someone with PCB drawing skill first  , nothing scientific just HAT module for my mobo USB2.0 header  

 

[AccMagi7s]

On ?24?/?01?/?2017 at 4:58 PM, rmpfyf said:

@Chanh.... so is this the 'official' group buy thread :D?

Ok Guys - Can we stay in this thread for the group buy for the current time being? when we get sufficient interests, like 20, I will move to "Other Discussion" under "DIY AUDIO PROJECTS". Lets it runs for a few months, so the deadline says 30th April 2017. Once the true quantity is known, I will pm individually for payment via paypal or direct bank transfer, for pcb only or fully assembled unit for the option #1. Should you have any question(s), pls shoot me a pm for clarifications.

 

My apologies for those, who had previously pmed me with their interests. There might have been about 5 or 6 of you here. Please if you read this, update the list or pm me again. Sorry for the inconveniences. This including the new interests......

 

List stands as of 25th January 2017;

1. Chanh; 2 x #1

2. rmpfyf; 2 x #1

3. BioBrian; 1 x #1

4. Yarland; 1 x #1

5. Jventer; 1 x #1

6. Jhya; 2 x #1

7. Kukynas; 1 x #1 

8. qwerter; 1 x #1

Edited January 25, 2017 by Chanh

[Jhya]

On 1/23/2017 at 4:23 PM, Chanh said:

Hi Jeff, that is what I am using for my i3-6100 server. After server experiments, I decided to re-introduce back the choke into the 12vdc as choke filter, and it is supplying 12vdc into OPAmp for the two, 5vdc, 3.3vdc psu units, those are only CRC filtered for faster responding.

 

Edit: How did you go with your ASRock AD2700/pico/SOtM PCI booting issue?

Hi @Chanh I rewired my connector with 12vdc directly to the SOtM PCI. It appears that the SOtM PCI card has to be powered on first before the AD2700 will boot up. So now my system boots up consistently with this setup. 12vdc to pico w/ 5vdc from pico to SSD & 12vdc directly to SOtM PCI.

After listening and comparing to my other systems, I have to say AD2700-ITX + SOtM PCI is the best sounding!

 

(The other system I'm experimenting: ASRock J3710-ITX + Shaar Deluxe. I also tested a RME 9632 PCI card plugged into the AD2700 output to SPDIF bypassing the USB, still not as good as SOtM PCI USB)

Edited January 26, 2017 by Jhya

[Jhya]

@ChanhI'm thinking about getting another Streacom case to house my other server. Will the Streacom FC8 be too small to fit your #1 ATX board?

[AccMagi7s]

21 hours ago, Jhya said:

@ChanhI'm thinking about getting another Streacom case to house my other server. Will the Streacom FC8 be too small to fit your #1 ATX board?

Hi @Jhya - Well, I do not know if we will ever get to ATX board printed if the interests remain insufficient. If we did get there, ATX will not take much room as it will be inserted into the motherboard ATX-24pins like the pico, while 12vdc for i3/i5/i7 cpu will be flying leads to cpu's molex. 

As for your the case, I am using the HDPlex atm. The power button is a little sub-standards compare to Streacom.... I think the question would be, how are you going to power supply the ATX? Will you have the psu(s) operate externally or within the case?

Edited January 27, 2017 by Chanh