Iain Wooldridge Posted November 21, 2022 Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) Greetings everyone... after trawling the net and muddling together a variety of conclusions.. I wondered if anyone can shed some light. Much as I loooove the sound of my Pioneer A4000 and Canton CT 1000's retro system... I wondering if the Pioneer isnt bringing out the best of the Cantons.. as Iv'e heard the Canton CT1000's are quite hard to drive and with the aim of increasing amp power, Ive been pondering the possibility of running each speaker off its own dedicated amp (one for the left, another for the right (I'd buy another A400 for this)).. is this possible with the A400 ? would this show any improvement / increase in powered delivered to each speaker ? Slight side note... had a tweeter go a few weeks ago (just stopped).. wondering if anyone could settle me about the Speaker / amp combo not being the cause of this issue.. Thanks in advance. Iain Edited November 21, 2022 by Iain Wooldridge Clarifying info
Cloth Ears Posted November 21, 2022 Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) On the "had a tweeter go a few weeks ago" issue, at what volume are you using the combo? If you're twisting the volume over past 1 o'clock (and the Canton CT 1000's are hard to drive, so maybe you are), then it's possible you have caused the amp to start clipping and this is what's happened to the tweeter. On the other question, the A400 looks to be only an integrated amp - no possibility for sending the signal out to a power amplifier (or getting the signal in from another pre-amplifier). So getting another one won't help. Edited November 21, 2022 by Cloth Ears 1
Bisguittin Posted November 21, 2022 Posted November 21, 2022 I agree with @Cloth Ears. There is a high likelihood that the tweeter has been clipped out of existence as your amp has run out of steam. (In that event, a repair will be required unfortunately) Future plans could involve the acquisition an amplifier more comfortable with driving the Cantons to the level you want. The Classifieds here would be an ideal place to look.
Cloth Ears Posted November 21, 2022 Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Bisguittin said: I agree with @Cloth Ears. There is a high likelihood that the tweeter has been clipped out of existence as your amp has run out of steam. (In that event, a repair will be required unfortunately) Future plans could involve the acquisition an amplifier more comfortable with driving the Cantons to the level you want. The Classifieds here would be an ideal place to look. Another option is to listen to them in a smaller room or significantly closer to your ears - neither of which generally appeals (to me, at least). So the suggestion of a new amplifier might be the go. Edited November 21, 2022 by Cloth Ears
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted November 21, 2022 Volunteer Posted November 21, 2022 Adding a second amp will not increase the amp power
andyr Posted November 22, 2022 Posted November 22, 2022 5 hours ago, Iain Wooldridge said: Greetings everyone... after trawling the net and muddling together a variety of conclusions.. I wondered if anyone can shed some light. Much as I loooove the sound of my Pioneer A4000 and Canton CT 1000's retro system... I wondering if the Pioneer isn't bringing out the best of the Cantons.. as I've heard the Canton CT1000's are quite hard to drive and with the aim of increasing amp power, Ive been pondering the possibility of running each speaker off its own dedicated amp (one for the left, another for the right (I'd buy another A400 for this)).. is this possible with the A400 ? would this show any improvement / increase in powered delivered to each speaker ? As others have posted - this: a. isn't possible as the A400 is an integrated amp - unless it has 'pre-out' & 'power-in' sockets (which I suspect it doesn't) b. won't deliver any more power to the spkrs, anyway. 5 hours ago, Iain Wooldridge said: Slight side note... had a tweeter go a few weeks ago (just stopped).. wondering if anyone could settle me about the Speaker / amp combo not being the cause of this issue.. I would agree with the others - I think you've blown your tweeter (caused by the amp clipping). So what you need (as well as a new tweeter! ) is a new integrated amp. The kind of amp which will make your CT 1000s sound much better will be: at least 150w into 8 ohms and double that (or nearly double) into 4 ohms. Such as a Musical Fidelity MF 5Si or a Parasound Halo. 2
Cloth Ears Posted November 22, 2022 Posted November 22, 2022 2 hours ago, andyr said: a. isn't possible as the A400 is an integrated amp - unless it has 'pre-out' & 'power-in' sockets (which I suspect it doesn't) I only looked at this as it might have been that OP liked the sound of the pre-amp section of the A400. But on looking at pictures of the back of the A400 , there is no way to use it as a pre-amp. 1
Iain Wooldridge Posted November 22, 2022 Author Posted November 22, 2022 Well thanks all.. that was super fast and super helpful advice. I suspected my moment of excess may have caused the tweeter failure.. Ill buy in a used / recon and refit.. does it matter if the serial numbers are closely matched ? as I see adverts always mention in the listings) For the amp.. such a shame the A400 wont drive the Cantons to the (occasionally) desired volumes.. they partner beautifully to my musical taste and ears.. I have a Naim (Olive's NAP140 & NAC72) Pre-Power units too which where my old faithfuls until I linked the Cantons which didnt bring out the best in either for me.. so the priority keeper for now is the Cantons as Im sure they can shine with the right partnering.. Open to any suggestions of budget amp/amps (sub 750 Euros, as tis is what I can get for my current amps) with a similar character to the very listenable, groovy and detailed Pioneer A400... but with enough juice to drive the Cantons ... Thanks again for the support and advice - fantastic forum
muon* Posted November 22, 2022 Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) Maybe a 400 on steroids like the A-757. https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/pioneer/a-757.shtml 100 watts into 8ohms, dual power transformers. Drive capacity (what ever that means) is 150 watts into 4ohms. In manual Edited November 22, 2022 by muon*
Al.M Posted November 23, 2022 Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) Lookout broadly for other higher powered and quality built amps from various makes like Musical Fidelity, Copland, Accuphase, Rotel, NAD, Sansui, Roksan, Audiolab, Jungson JA88D in particular etc There some preamp and power amp combinations like from Musical Fidelity, NAD, Rotel and Audiolab that should also be considered in that budget. Edited November 23, 2022 by Al.M
Iain Wooldridge Posted December 8, 2022 Author Posted December 8, 2022 Hi again... Quick update and seeking advice (again ) Discovered the blown Canton tweeter could have been caused by a dirty / faulty volume knob on my Pioneer A400 (or possibly running volume into clipping or combination of both).. have sourced a replacement tweeter (as original) and today found a Pioneer A616 ( https://www.camarossaudio.com/ampli-amplifier/pioneer-a-616-reference-amplifier.html ) with 1 years guarantee for 200 euros.. Wondering if anyone has insight if the A616 will deliver enough power for the Cantons.. ? and will match or improve on the sound of the highly revered and reviewed A400. Could I benefit from the A616's A+B speaker outputs ? bridged ? Sorry for any stoopid questions Thanks in advance
rundllexe Posted December 19, 2022 Posted December 19, 2022 No I don't think you will be able to bridge A & B, to my knowledge they are supplied by the same power amplifier and as such the 'shared' load will just be the same as a single A or B - perhaps someone more knowlegdeable can indicate on if there are any precautions doing this. I have read people bi-wiring from AB which apart from a minor drop in total resistance in the cable(s) you aren't really achieving anything except spending more money. With regard to the A616 I do not have any experience but looking at it on paper and considering the almost doubling in mass I'd tend to think that this amp is packing a lot more reserve power for big transients though the fact it is equipped with 12,000uf capacitors @ 80W as opposed to the A400 with 10,000uf @ 50W p/ch might indicate it won't actually have that much in reserve for big dynamics. If you don't mind moving away from Pioneer I'd highly recommend a DSP-A1000, DSP-A2070, DSP-A3090, DSP-A1, RX-V2095 from Yamaha; these amps are absolute beastly for stereo amplification, weighing in at 21+kg and equipped with 22,000uf capacitors. For some reason they often get overlooked and go quite cheap so might be worth while just to flirt with before deciding on if you need a beefier amp. I've driven my Canton Ergo 900DC's with a fair number of amplifiers including in an bi-amp config with a RX-V1500 for highs and NAD C272 on the lows - the DSP-A2070 absolutely opened up the bass like I'd never heard on them before, I was shocked and couldn't shut up about it for weeks afterwards (and am still going seemingly :p). PS I own a set of CT1000's MkII's that are currently out of action with a shorted coil in one tweeter, it is being repaired at the moment and should be back in action early in the new year (very excited)!
muon* Posted December 19, 2022 Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) The 616 will be slightly better power wise than the A400, and no you can not bridge the A and B, well you can but it will do nothing as it is the same connection split into the two sets paralleled. I haven't heard a A616 but it is not as beefy as the 757 and like the A400 has the one single power transformer, not sure if it's any bigger than the one in the A400. Rated output (Both channel drive, 20 Hz to 20 kHz)120W + 120W (4 Ω, 0.008%) 100W + 100W (6 Ω, 0.005%) 90W + 90W (8 ohm, 0.005%) So from 8ohms to 4ohms it only goes from 90 watts to 120 watts, so only a 30% increase so still not a lot of current. The A400 and the A616 Edited December 19, 2022 by muon*
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