Maynard Posted February 2, 2022 Posted February 2, 2022 (edited) Hey all what would your compliance estimate be for this Cart. DV spec is 12 at 10hz to go on an arm effective weight approximately 16.1-16.5 grams. Plugging it into VE compliance calc I get 7hz, if I estimate compliance to be around 20 (@100hz) would this cart work on an arm such as this? Edited February 2, 2022 by Maynard
Maynard Posted February 2, 2022 Author Posted February 2, 2022 Cart weight is 9.2 I am presuming this is Minus screws so add a gram give or take
Vinylear Posted February 2, 2022 Posted February 2, 2022 I used the 20X2L on an arm with a mass of 18 grams and it worked well. It now resides on an arm with a mass of 9.5 grams, it works well there too. Also I have found the 20X2L sounds good loaded under 100 ohms. The specs state a load greater than 30 ohms so it's loaded at 47 ohms on my phono stage. Well worth a try.
andyr Posted February 3, 2022 Posted February 3, 2022 On 02/02/2022 at 11:10 AM, Maynard said: Cart weight is 9.2 I am presuming this is Minus screws so add a gram give or take Expand Yes, use the lightest screws you can. On 02/02/2022 at 11:48 PM, Vinylear said: Also I have found the 20X2L sounds good loaded under 100 ohms. The specs state a load greater than 30 ohms so it's loaded at 47 ohms on my phono stage. Well worth a try. Expand Does your phono stage allow you to select a higher loading? Like 330 ohms ... or 470 ohms? If so - as you say ... well worth a try. Andy
andyr Posted February 3, 2022 Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) On 02/02/2022 at 11:07 AM, Maynard said: Plugging it into VE compliance calc I get 7hz, if I estimate compliance to be around 20 (@100hz) Expand The VE cart compliance calculator says you need the compliance as measured at 10Hz, So 12 is the number you use. EDIT: That's if the DV no. really is @ 10Hz (and not 100Hz). On 02/02/2022 at 11:07 AM, Maynard said: to go on an arm effective weight approximately 16.1-16.5 grams. Expand So for your arm ... you are will within the green area, at a total weight of 10gms (including screws). So ignore my previous comment about using the lightest screws you can - you don't have a problem with this, at your arm's eff. weight. Andy Edited February 3, 2022 by andyr 1
Maynard Posted February 3, 2022 Author Posted February 3, 2022 On 03/02/2022 at 12:58 AM, andyr said: Yes, use the lightest screws you can. Does your phono stage allow you to select a higher loading? Like 330 ohms ... or 470 ohms? If so - as you say ... well worth a try. Andy Expand No it’s fixed at 47 and 100
Maynard Posted February 3, 2022 Author Posted February 3, 2022 Andy thanks for that info much appreciated DV is Japanese right? I thought you had to multiply their figures by 1.5-2 to get a reading that is correct on the VN calculation whereas an ortofon spec would be at 10hz so by multiplication needed Read that somewhere
Maynard Posted February 3, 2022 Author Posted February 3, 2022 Another thing when someone says “that carts capability would be wasted on an arm like that” or something similar… what specifically are they referring to? I think my arm (sansui 525) sme similar design would be perfectly adequate.
andyr Posted February 3, 2022 Posted February 3, 2022 On 03/02/2022 at 2:12 AM, Maynard said: DV is Japanese right? I thought you had to multiply their figures by 1.5-2 to get a reading that is correct on the VN calculation whereas an ortofon spec would be at 10hz so no multiplication needed Read that somewhere Expand The above conflicts with what you posted first up! Yes, DV is Japanese - so the "12" compliance given on their spec sheet ... is for 100Hz. So, yes, that becomes ~20, for 10Hz. Which, for 16.5gm eff weight puts you into the yellow (at 10gms total weight). So it'll work ... but an arm with a lighter eff. mass would work better. Andy
andyr Posted February 3, 2022 Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) On 03/02/2022 at 2:17 AM, Maynard said: when someone says “that carts capability would be wasted on an arm like that” or something similar… what specifically are they referring to? Expand I suggest they are primarily suggesting the arm's engineering - such as its bearings or its armtube stiffness - is not at the level of which would allow the cart to deliver its best. But ideal matching with the am's effective weight is also a consideration. A similar concern IMV is the loading which your phono stage offers. What does yours offer? Andy Edited February 3, 2022 by andyr
Maynard Posted February 3, 2022 Author Posted February 3, 2022 Can you recommend any phono stages around the 2000 dollar mark with variable loading Andy?
Gieseler Audio Posted February 3, 2022 Posted February 3, 2022 Hi Maynard, I have a new phono stage that has lots of loading options. https://www.gieseler.com.au/product-page/phongraf $1500 - in stock Also reviews here Also @andyr make a nice one too. Cheers
andyr Posted February 3, 2022 Posted February 3, 2022 On 03/02/2022 at 2:36 AM, Maynard said: It’s a fixed 47 mm 100 MC Expand I think you mean 47k ohms for MM? And MC stuck on 100 ohms is extremely limiting, wrt cartridge possibilities. On 03/02/2022 at 2:50 AM, Maynard said: Can you recommend any phono stages around the 2000 dollar mark with variable loading Andy? Expand As Clay said - he's got a new one out ... and I offer my Muse. I'll send you a PM later, with more details but these posts by 'qik_shift' should give you an idea of how good it sounds: And I have a customer in Brisbane if that's not too much of a drive and you'd like to hear it. However, as you have a Dynavector cartridge ... I would strongly recommend DV P75 - due to the fact that it has a 'transimpedance' option (which Chris's 'Little Loco' - and his current 'Big Loco' also have). This option removes the need to optimise loading; the P75 is ideally suited to DV carts. Andy 1
Maynard Posted February 3, 2022 Author Posted February 3, 2022 Yes I meant 47 ohms mm 100 k Mc the muse looks good how much is it? can it accept moving magnets as well?
Vinylear Posted February 3, 2022 Posted February 3, 2022 On 03/02/2022 at 12:58 AM, andyr said: Yes, use the lightest screws you can. Does your phono stage allow you to select a higher loading? Like 330 ohms ... or 470 ohms? If so - as you say ... well worth a try. Andy Expand Thanks Andy, will try, away from home for a few weeks, I'll have a look when I get back.
andyr Posted February 3, 2022 Posted February 3, 2022 On 03/02/2022 at 7:13 AM, Vinylear said: Thanks Andy, will try, away from home for a few weeks, I'll have a look when I get back. Expand I look forward to heaing your impressions. Andy
Vinylear Posted April 4, 2022 Posted April 4, 2022 Hi Andy, been home for a while and while 47 0hm is just fine 220 ohm just does this so much better, all Frequencies seem to be handled very well and the music resulting from all of this sound is just fine. The next load after 100 ohms is 220 ohms then after that it is 470 ohms on my phono stage. In a nutshell 220 ohms is the right setting in my setup Thanks Andy.
andyr Posted April 4, 2022 Posted April 4, 2022 On 04/04/2022 at 7:16 AM, Vinylear said: Hi Andy, been home for a while and while 47 0hm is just fine 220 ohm just does this so much better, all Frequencies seem to be handled very well and the music resulting from all of this sound is just fine. The next load after 100 ohms is 220 ohms then after that it is 470 ohms on my phono stage. In a nutshell 220 ohms is the right setting in my setup Thanks Andy. Expand So you tried 470 ohms, Ve? (And it wasn't as good as 220 ohms.) Not surprised 220 ohms sounds better than what you had before (47 ohms). Andy
TemaadAudio Posted April 23, 2022 Posted April 23, 2022 Hi, Normally I use the figures of between 1.4 & 1.7 when converting Japanese cart compliance to Euro spec. But your cart should work OK with the arm, but yes with the combination you a stuck at around 7hz, whether that is a problem or not depend on what type of floor & isolation your T/T has. The comment that your arm may not be good enough for the Dyna is correct. Many people make this mistake when new to upgrading. It's a bit like upgrading a car, what do you upgrade for better performance on a race tack? the engine of suspension. Many people go with an engine, but if the suspension (arm) is not up for the job then the extra power is useless. Bit lower end T/T's one thing is certain, the manufacture will be using cheap & cheerful bearings. People even upgrade the bearings in the SME V, at a bearing cost of around $20. So if you had a very good arm & low cost acceptable cart, verses a low cost arm & expensive cart. The good arm, low cost cart will nearly always sound better. As the VG arm is allowing the cart to before at is max performance. Also don't forget the arm's internal wiring, for a cart of the Dyna quality it deserves better. Cheers
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