Hi all, 

I've just bought and moved into a new place and I've managed to convince the missus to turn the dungeon/den into my 2 channel listening room man cave.

 

This is a 45 year old brick house.  Built like the proverbial brick $&!#house.

The room itself is painted brick on all sides, floor is tiled and ceiling is some sort of old school metal paneling.

 

Not having done any form of room treatment previously, I was hoping to get some advice on the best way to treat the room.

Especially as this will be the first time I've had a room exclusively for listening to music.

 

I know tiles are no good, so I was thinking some large rugs to cover the floor.

What about the brick walls?

I was thinking curtains or some sort of accoustic panels.

How about the brick wall behind the speakers?

 

I'll get a lounge to go in there and some sort of coffee table.

 

Again just asking for some recommendations or advice on the best way to set up/treat the room to get the best out of it and what stuff to use.

 

I'm also happy to spend a bit of money on the best accoustic treatment for the room, if it's worthwhile.

 

Thanks

JB

 

You can’t really treat until you know what you’re up against, i.e. what’s there that needs treatment.

 

I’d put in the basic stereo setup and furnishings and give it a listen. I personally would also measure the room response, because that allows treatment (and here I include speaker placement) to be much more targeted. It also gives you a baseline by which to judge the success or your treatment efforts.

 

Just for the record, my room is fully treated.

it was the biggest upgraded for the smallest outlay in my time in this hobby.

Do it and don’t look back.

45 minutes ago, Steffen said:

You can’t really treat until you know what you’re up against, i.e. what’s there that needs treatment.

 

I’d put in the basic stereo setup and furnishings and give it a listen. I personally would also measure the room response, because that allows treatment (and here I include speaker placement) to be much more targeted. It also gives you a baseline by which to judge the success or your treatment efforts.

 

 

Hi, thanks for your response and I hear what you're saying.

I haven't even unpacked my gear yet, so maybe I should set up everything first and have a listen.

I guess I'm pretty excited that I've got a dedicated music room and I was thinking to give it a bit of love right from the get go.

 

17 minutes ago, Yamaha_man said:

Just for the record, my room is fully treated.

it was the biggest upgraded for the smallest outlay in my time in this hobby.

Do it and don’t look back.

 

Thanks, this is what I'm talking about....

 

 

rigid boundaries don't make for great "in room" sound

On 14/12/2021 at 1:49 PM, Steffen said:

You can’t really treat until you know what you’re up against, i.e. what’s there that needs treatment.

 

I’d put in the basic stereo setup and furnishings and give it a listen. I personally would also measure the room response, because that allows treatment (and here I include speaker placement) to be much more targeted. It also gives you a baseline by which to judge the success or your treatment efforts.

 

^ this

With brick walls you will need a lot of really big/thick treatment to manage the room response at lower frequencies.

Your ears are not a great guide...

...Get a measurement rig 1st - eg Umike, mic stand with a boom, REW software (free), laptop...

...learn how to take basic room measurements...and muck with speaker positions/measurements

...then get a pro in to take measurements and make recommendations on speaker placement and room treatment

 

You will get loads more benefit and learn a bunch more if you go in this order rather than engaging a pro immediately.

 

cheers

Mike

On 14/12/2021 at 2:17 PM, Yamaha_man said:

Just for the record, my room is fully treated.

it was the biggest upgraded for the smallest outlay in my time in this hobby.

Do it and don’t look back.

how rigid are your room boundaries?

The OP has brick walls, tiled floor and metal ceiling - that is a significant challenge for achieving great "in room" sound with room treatment.

 

@Maxpower - don't get me wrong - I love room treatment - best upgrade I ever did!

 

But do it with your eyes open - get a measurement rig and learn how to drive it so you can see the changes (or not) the treatment makes

 

cheers

Mike

10 hours ago, almikel said:

rigid boundaries don't make for great "in room" sound

^ this

With brick walls you will need a lot of really big/thick treatment to manage the room response at lower frequencies.

Your ears are not a great guide...

...Get a measurement rig 1st - eg Umike, mic stand with a boom, REW software (free), laptop...

...learn how to take basic room measurements...and muck with speaker positions/measurements

...then get a pro in to take measurements and make recommendations on speaker placement and room treatment

 

You will get loads more benefit and learn a bunch more if you go in this order rather than engaging a pro immediately.

 

cheers

Mike

Hi Mike, cheers for the advice mate.

I'm currently having a wall built so that it is a room ( at the moment it is open to the garage).

Then I'm going to either have carpet installed or a floating floor, as regardless I think the tiles are/will be horrible.

Then I'll set up my system and go from there.

But my thinking was in line with yours in that the room will benefit with with treatment on the brick walls.

On 21/01/2022 at 10:19 AM, Maxpower said:

I'm currently having a wall built so that it is a room ( at the moment it is open to the garage).

Hi Max,

 

for that wall, I'd build it with acoustics in mind - it will cost more, but it will improve the sound isolation provided by that wall and assist in absorbing "in room" bass.

 

At the very least make sure you use offset/staggered studs and fluffy insulation inside - but preferably also use 2 layers of Gyprock with Green Glue between on the room side .

Green Glue is expensive, but IMHO worth it - 2 layers of Gyprock with Green Glue between helps with both sound proofing and making the wall compliant/flexible to absorb "in room" bass.

 

Excellent resource here: https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing-101

from this source

Interestingly, from the above diagram, single studs with channel mounted on whisper clips is better than offset/staggered stud for isolation - funny how you read these things lots and pick up additional nuggets each time

 

Many builders don't have much clue about building for sound isolation (although most would have built offset/staggered stud walls and used whisper clips), and fewer would have used Green Glue and 2 layers of Gyprock - you may have to provide guidance/instructions to your builder - and even overcome some pushback - "why do you need to do that??!!" - just remember it's your room!

 

A source for Green Glue and Whisper clips in Australia (I've never sourced from these guys):

https://foamsealant.com.au/green-glue/

https://foamsealant.com.au/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=69

 

You have an opportunity with constructing this wall to enhance the "in room" bass response of your room - which you should take advantage off, given the other walls are brick/acoustically rigid hence reflect bass back into the room. which needs to be absorbed for good "in room" bass.

A whole wall absorbing bass is a good thing 👍, with the sound isolation/sound proofing an added benefit.

 

You will likely still need further acoustic treatment targeting bass in your room - but get the wall built first and procure a measurement rig and go from there.

 

cheers

Mike

On 22/01/2022 at 1:52 PM, almikel said:

Hi Max,

 

for that wall, I'd build it with acoustics in mind - it will cost more, but it will improve the sound isolation provided by that wall and assist in absorbing "in room" bass.

 

At the very least make sure you use offset/staggered studs and fluffy insulation inside - but preferably also use 2 layers of Gyprock with Green Glue between on the room side .

Green Glue is expensive, but IMHO worth it - 2 layers of Gyprock with Green Glue between helps with both sound proofing and making the wall compliant/flexible to absorb "in room" bass.

 

Excellent resource here: https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing-101

from this source

Interestingly, from the above diagram, single studs with channel mounted on whisper clips is better than offset/staggered stud for isolation - funny how you read these things lots and pick up additional nuggets each time

 

Many builders don't have much clue about building for sound isolation (although most would have built offset/staggered stud walls and used whisper clips), and fewer would have used Green Glue and 2 layers of Gyprock - you may have to provide guidance/instructions to your builder - and even overcome some pushback - "why do you need to do that??!!" - just remember it's your room!

 

A source for Green Glue and Whisper clips in Australia (I've never sourced from these guys):

https://foamsealant.com.au/green-glue/

https://foamsealant.com.au/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=69

 

You have an opportunity with constructing this wall to enhance the "in room" bass response of your room - which you should take advantage off, given the other walls are brick/acoustically rigid hence reflect bass back into the room. which needs to be absorbed for good "in room" bass.

A whole wall absorbing bass is a good thing 👍, with the sound isolation/sound proofing an added benefit.

 

You will likely still need further acoustic treatment targeting bass in your room - but get the wall built first and procure a measurement rig and go from there.

 

cheers

Mike

Hi Mike, 

Cheers for the detailed information.

Makes for interesting reading.

I've got a quote from my builder to do the wall, but I probably need to ask a few more questions and tell him what I want.

5 hours ago, Maxpower said:

I've got a quote from my builder to do the wall

which is likely a standard stud wall with standard Gyprock each side, maybe even without fluffy insulation??

 

Ask him for a quote based on the diagram above 2nd from the left, ie from garage side: Gyprock/studs/sound proofing clips/hat channel/Gyprock/Green Glue/Gyprock...with fluffy insulation between the Gyprock layers of garage and room.

A 2-3 x increase in cost over a standard stud wall would be reasonable IMHO - whether your budget can afford that is a completely different question.

 

Mike

 

Great info from almikel, I'm building a room from scratch this year and will definitely look back to this post for more input. Cheers

On 05/02/2022 at 1:00 PM, Kirby66 said:

Great info from almikel, I'm building a room from scratch this year and will definitely look back to this post for more input. Cheers

Hi Mark,

start here : https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing-101

It was another member here on SNA that pointed me at the Sound Proofing Company (unfortunately @peterthegreek seems to have vanished , but his input was awesome!)

Really great info on that site.

 

cheers,

Mike

Brilliant, thanks Mike

Room acoustics and sound proofing are 2 different topics that bite each other. Don't spend big money on sound proofing unless you can do it right (do the whole room).  Soundproofing can easily by nullified by small weaknesses, as sound can travel through the smallest details, cracks or openings. There is nothing wrong with building a wall with 2 layers thick on either side and 90mm studs or more, filled with insulation if it doesn't cost to much, but most sound will travel in or out the room via the metal roof, and any windows you might have.

 

Sound proofing is mostly about trapping sound inside the room and keep outside sound, out of the room. This as a result will trap as much (Bass) energy inside the room where you don't want it.

 

You're most likely are going to have trouble in the bass region, due to lingering bass energy, on top of all the full range reflection inside the room from solid surfaces.  The higher frequencies are easier to deal with by using soft surfaces that can absorb some of the reflections. The thicker/denser the material the lower the frequency it can absorb but is usually more efficient in the higher frequencies. If you want the mid range and lower bass to sound right you need to deal with the sub bass energy in the room, which is the hardest part in room acoustics because there is a lot of energy that needs to be dealt with, and that is going to take up (lots) space.

 

The basic principals of absorption work on  Gas-Flow rating of the material, thickness and distance from the back wall. There are also other principles at work in acoustics, but absorption is one of the easiest to DIY.