I've been buying vintages of mollydooker's "the boxer" ever since 2006. It an over the top massive Mclaren Vale Shiraz, the way I like my reds. There is no refinement in this wine, it's pure fruit driven, in your face Shiraz. It's 16% alcohol, so I thought it would cellar for quite some time. Now, I recently opened a 2006, it tasted bland, almost the equivalent of a dry wine in terms of flavour, hard to explain.

I thought to myself, it's possible this vintage has turned, I need to verify with another bottle . Now, the one i had the following night tasted somewhat better, but no where near as good as it tasted in 2007. So I decided I may as well drink the rest at the next opportunity...

Tonight I opened a bottle and was like... Wow!!! Amazing bottle, far better than when I first bought this vintage.

I'm kind of amazed at how different each of the three bottles tasted, I know I don't have the perfect cellar (under the bed). Has anyone else experienced such a large variance in the quality of a vintage they have put away for a reasonable amount of time??

Unfortunately under the bed is no good. What kills wine is the temperature variance. In my house it can get under 10 degrees in winter and over 30 degrees in summer. That 20 degree difference is too much for wine to age properly. If you do not have access to a cellar then a proper wine fridge is the only answer for long term storage.

I thought our place was well insulated, but I fear it may see variances close to what you mention.

I grew up in Townsville Nth Queensland, I buried wine over 1m down in my parents back yard when I was at uni to try and keep the temp variation to a minimum to age wine. This worked quite well, but was quite labour intensive, perhaps I will invest in a proper cooler .

Edited April 13, 201213 yr by GFuNK

GFuNK, are they under cork or screwcap?

Last weekend I sorted out our wine fridge and, with advice, identified several bottles that we really should be drinking.

This evening I opened a bottle of 1993 Penfolds Coonawarra Bin 128. Even though I decantered the wine it still had that slightly musty aged taste that I just do not enjoy. I have left it to try again tomorrow evening.

This exercise repeats previous experiences that leaves me wondering why I keep a few good wines for so long. I reckon I would enjoy them more if I drank them years earlier. I should add that I only have half a dozen aged wines. Most I just buy, drink and enjoy :-)

Once again no bloody emoticons available on the iPad.

Last weekend I sorted out our wine fridge and, with advice, identified several bottles that we really should be drinking.

This evening I opened a bottle of 1993 Penfolds Coonawarra Bin 128. Even though I decantered the wine it still had that slightly musty aged taste that I just do not enjoy. I have left it to try again tomorrow evening.

This exercise repeats previous experiences that leaves me wondering why I keep a few good wines for so long. I reckon I would enjoy them more if I drank them years earlier. I should add that I only have half a dozen aged wines. Most I just buy, drink and enjoy :-)

Once again no bloody emoticons available on the iPad.

:hiccup :hiccup :hiccup :hiccup

go to your local greengrocer - ask them if they have any any polystyrene boxes they are throwing out - the ones they use to traansport fruit/veggies in. These are thick walled boxes with lids. Use those to store your wine in. Keep them full of bottles, put packing around the bottles to minimise air spaces. Keep the boxes closed when not choosing a bottle. Write on the outside what is stored. Keep the boxes in the coolest place in your house (perhaps in a corridor in the centre of the house).

Temperature fluctuation is the big no, no.

Wine will keep for years this way. You can have a case of wine, 6 out of the case can suffer from cork failure, the others not. Doesn't matter how well you store the wine. I had a large collection in a commercial cellar. Had similar problems with individual bottles of expensive wine. Sh** happens.

Don't purchase an expensive wine fridge unless you really need one, or have money you don't need to purchase more audiophile equipment. I liked the commercial cellar because I'd actually have to go out to choose my wine, so I thought about it. Not simply, aw, maybe I'll try this one now. I did keep a case or so at home to slurp though.

GFuNK, are they under cork or screwcap?

Screwcap...

ok, cant blame the cork then..............must be some large temperature variations goin on.

where did you say it was stored, under the bed? OK, I think I know what's happening here - as Homer Simpson said " the forecast calls for flurries of passion followed by extended periods of gettin’ it on."

there's your temperature problem

Yep, you need to reduce the temperature variation and make sure movements in temperature are slow. I have a wine cellar which is just a double brick building inside my shed with a hell of a lot of insulation. It isn't perfect but rarely gets above 25 or below 10. Even though there is a fair bit of variation there it will take days to move a few degrees and that is only in extreme conditions. I like aged wine so this is something I want to do and the insulated brick building works well for me.

DS

Yep, you need to reduce the temperature variation and make sure movements in temperature are slow. I have a wine cellar which is just a double brick building inside my shed with a hell of a lot of insulation. It isn't perfect but rarely gets above 25 or below 10. Even though there is a fair bit of variation there it will take days to move a few degrees and that is only in extreme conditions. I like aged wine so this is something I want to do and the insulated brick building works well for me.

DS

Have you ever noticed a large variation in the quality of your vintage wine with your current setup?

I haven't noticed much difference in the same wine and vintage although I tend to drink them months and occasionally years apart. The main problem I've rarely had is corks disintegrating and occasionally leaking. Surprisingly I don't think I've ever had a corked wine (apparently tastes like wet cardboard). Some wines I've left too long and they become a bit closed. Some are just spectacular when aged, so many flavours and so much complexity. I do specifically buy wines made to be aged because that is what I like so that would help. Good cellaring is worthwhile but it can be very expensive which means less money for wine, whisky, hifi, records . . .

GFuNK, many of the big 'Parker' style of wines are not know for their capacity to age. As a generalisation, the big Aussie fruit bombs are best consumed young.

I think DRC is correct, generally it is not the fruit driven wines which are made for aging.

What is it about Parker wines? I have a Terra Rosa First Growth '98 from memory, should I be drinking it now?

DS

I think DRC is correct, generally it is not the fruit driven wines which are made for aging.

What is it about Parker wines? I have a Terra Rosa First Growth '98 from memory, should I be drinking it now?

DS

Ageing ability is a question of balance - fruit, alcohol, acid, tannin (for reds). Generally, high alcohol is not a good indicator.

Have a few bottles of 98 Parker 1st growth (by the way, I think DRC was referring to the American wine wanker Robert Parker, not the winery). My experience with Coonawarra ( and SA generally) 98's has been patchy. Some great wines at release, but not all ageing well. 96 was a much better bet. Had a 96 Grange last weekend. Still a bub.

Edited April 14, 201213 yr by Zammo

Oh that Parker, no worries.

I had a box of Wynns 98 Cab Sav and it was all good.

DS

Oh that Parker, no worries.

I had a box of Wynns 98 Cab Sav and it was all good.

DS

Yeah, solid wine David.

Thanks for the responses guys, definitely some food for thought... I guess I believed that since alcohol is a preservative, that high content would allow for longer celaring. I guess the point is, for a wine to improve, it really needs the right characteristics to develop, not just preserved. It would also seem, that the high alcohol content, given unfavourable celaring conditions, did not garauntee preservation...

Ageing ability is a question of balance - fruit, alcohol, acid, tannin (for reds). Generally, high alcohol is not a good indicator.

Have a few bottles of 98 Parker 1st growth (by the way, I think DRC was referring to the American wine wanker Robert Parker, not the winery). My experience with Coonawarra ( and SA generally) 98's has been patchy. Some great wines at release, but not all ageing well. 96 was a much better bet. Had a 96 Grange last weekend. Still a bub.

Yes, but an excellent bub. I enjoyed one last year and a 96 707 recently was also sublime.

I agree with the comments re 98 vintage in SA. My BVE E&E 98's are now quite inconsistent and not as good as they were 5 years ago - and they were shaping up as extraordinary.

FTR I keep my reds cellared at 16C and humidity 55 - 60%. For me, best drinking vintages are currently 96 - 2002.

Thanks for the responses guys, definitely some food for thought... I guess I believed that since alcohol is a preservative, that high content would allow for longer celaring. I guess the point is, for a wine to improve, it really needs the right characteristics to develop, not just preserved. It would also seem, that the high alcohol content, given unfavourable celaring conditions, did not garauntee preservation...

Alcohol is a preservative in the sense that it will discourage microbial activity; it will not necessarily impart the ability to age gracefully. At Good Friday lunch we opened a 1986 Vouvray from the Loire Valley that was still a baby - at 11.5% alcohol.

The misconception that high alcohol will lead to good cellaring is rooted in fact. Many of the great vineyard sites in France produced big, high alcohol wines that showed tremendous ageing potential compared to their peers. Hermitage is a good example, the ageability is legendary and one of the biggest wines in France. At a whopping 13-13.5% alcohol (the nearby, but lesser appellation of Crozes-Hermitage weigh in mostly at 12-12.5%). By extrapolation, if a great wine is 13.5% alcohol, then 16% must be an even better great wine... Not. A good acid profile provides a better indication of cellaring ability IMHO.

Balance is the key to ageability. Distinguished vineyard sites can produce wines with sublime flavour profiles whilst maintaining good acidity and velvety tannins (in reds). The interplay of appropriate alcohol (for me 13-14.5%), bright acidity, purity and complexity of flavour along with fine, balance tannins is difficult to achieve. Those wines that do will show long term cellaring potential.

I have seen the brawny 'headbanger' wines at 16+% alcohol look alluring and win trophies at shows when very young (1-2 years since vintage date), the same wines can be unbalanced disasters within a few years once the initial burst of primary fruit dies away.

Art mentioned the 98 E&E's are showing poorly. I think that may have been the highly lauded vintage that got some attention (in the Top 100?) with The Wine Spectator magazine.The present BVE stable is made at a different location by different owners with a different winemaking team, and I can't be certain that BVE still have access to fruit from the Elmore's vineryard (there used to be an inhouse saying at BVE that if they rejected E&E fruit that the truck could turn around and head to Penfolds for use in Grange). If Krell started making their gear in China, changed ownership and dumped their head designer then I would probably stop buying their equipment. Hang on a minute...

Edited April 15, 201213 yr by DRC

Art mentioned the 98 E&E's are showing poorly. I think that may have been the highly lauded vintage that got some attention (in the Top 100?) with The Wine Spectator magazine.The present BVE stable is made at a different location by different owners with a different winemaking team, and I can't be certain that BVE still have access to fruit from the Elmore's vineryard (there used to be an inhouse saying at BVE that if they rejected E&E fruit that the truck could turn around and head to Penfolds for use in Grange). If Krell started making their gear in China, changed ownership and dumped their head designer then I would probably stop buying their equipment. Hang on a minute...

There were 2 years that scored rave reviews; 96 and 98. The 96 scored the big numbers from WS and was responsible for raising the BVE E&E profile into the top tier. However, in a vertical tasting the 92 is still the clear winner, and right now the 95 is drinking as well as any, in spite of its mediocre rating.

Funny, but prior to the awards overseas James Haliday rated E&E "a nice shiraz for a BBQ" .

I'll be pulling the cork on a 96 E&E in a few weeks, so I 'll report back here on how it's tracking.

Edited April 15, 201213 yr by Art Vandelay

Have purchased very few Aussie reds in the last 15 years since the disastrous effect of the worldwide Parker phenomenon - I'm afraid dry port isn't my style and doesn't go well with food.

Used to have the wine to complement and augment the food, now the black reds we are producing are a meal in themselves.

LOL at looking at colour against a white background - don't know how the wine judges do it now as the rules of the game must have changed.

I only have 2 '88 Wynn's black left, wish I had a semi load - still drinks beautifully even though now with those aged flavours, but back it against a new breed dry port any day for food matching.

The power of marketing - the instant gratification tend means that few wine scribes are brave enough to speak out against this long running fad - I've only seen 2 or 3 from memory in the last decade.

Am also aware of a few well healed who stocked up big on the big black reds with 6 figure cellars only to be disappointed at the outcome.

Interesting comment in the Q-Weekend - "Australian shiraz is recovering from the Hulk Hogan image identified a few years ago in Britain by Jane McQuitty in The Times, who said drinkers needed to prepare their tastebuds for a "brutal thwack of sweet, burnt leather, port and creosote". Hear, hear no wonder pinot has become so popular.

just my tuppence worth - enjoy your tipple, whatever it may be

ALW

Edited April 15, 201213 yr by alittlewino

Not all Aussie reds are beholden to the big S.A. Shiraz style. There are plenty of examples of more refined reds, though you often have to look outside Barossa and Mclaren Vale. Unfortunately for our export market, the "dry port" styles have become synonymous with Aussie reds, and with their (understandably) waning popularity, the industry is going to have to work on a new strategy to renew interest.

Interesting, once upon a time Grange as the biggest of Aussie reds was under 14% - now try and find me a red in any Aussie climate under 14% - yes they do exist but a rarity.

ALW

No, there are heaps of reds in Victoria under 14% - not so many shiraz, but plenty of Cabernets (Yarra Valley), Pinots (Yarra, Mornington, Bellarine, Gippsland), and rarer varietals (like the Italian varietals grown in the King Valley). Not many Tassie reds would top 14% either.

Edited April 15, 201213 yr by Zammo