Thiel Speakers Owners & Discussion Thread

[Audio]

I had never met Audio prior to this and it was good to meet up, though a lot of it was swapping old war stories from our old company ;)

 

Yah, it's been a pleasure to have finally met up with you.  I am certainly glad that you waited for me and thanks for the coffee. That Crystal Gayle CD wasn't so exciting after all....  :)

 

(Audio)

 

 

 

[Doggie Howser]

Yah, it's been a pleasure to have finally met up with you.  I am certainly glad that you waited for me and thanks for the coffee. That Crystal Gayle CD wasn't so exciting after all....   :)

 

(Audio)

 

 

hehe I am now watching the Jacky Cheung Live BluRay and I think I am getting your POV. The scale of the music seems a huge notch up from my last setup.

 

:P

 

 

[Doggie Howser]

Hmmm.. I used Jag's SVS Eq CD in pure direct stereo mode to see the frequency response.

 

Pretty flat along the way (80dB) except for a boost from 36-55Hz (90-100dB) :(

 

I know that in my room, my SVS sub also has a boost around 50Hz. So it looks as if Thiel's full range response is also suffering the same problem and it is this reason for the boominess I am experiencing.

 

 

[Doggie Howser]

Pretty flat along the way (80dB) except for a boost from 36-55Hz (90-100dB) :(

 

I know that in my room, my SVS sub also has a boost around 50Hz. So it looks as if Thiel's full range response is also suffering the same problem and it is this reason for the boominess I am experiencing.

 

Have hit over 100 hours on the running in clock now. Overall the sound is much much better than before. The original boominess and off-pace bass is gone and the bass is fairly tight. If I had to compare it with the showroom set, I'd say it is abt 70% ish to my less than golden ears, bearing in mind the showroom gear is also much more elaborately set up.

 

The main issue now is the the 50Hz bass boost. It doesn't seem to be as apparent in most of the tracks I have listened including the new XRCD2 mastering/pressing of Eagles' Hell Freezes Over. But on one or two of my collection, they just hit the right resonance spot.

 

I guess the more traditional way to treat this boost is to use bass traps but most of the ones I have seen are pretty massive and despite making it home decor friendly, they are still quite obstrusive and fails WAF (in my particular case).

 

So I got around to thinking about the old Behringer DEQ2496 which I am now using to control the SVS subwoofer. but the DEQ is actually designed for normal stereo operation and not optimized for subwoofer operation (only goes down to 20Hz whereas the SVS goes lower than this).

 

Has anyone else considered using a DEQ to tame the room acoustics instead of using acoustic treatment? I know that the DEQ only works with one sweet spot, and would not be optimized for everywhere else around the room, but I am planning to listen from the sweet spot anyway.

 

I know this will probably run counter to conventional hifi audiophiles thinking :)

 

But just curious...

[Doggie Howser]

Feel free to add on (I know some of you guys got them as center/surround as well)

 

 

1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2

Was using the Sony TA-DA9000ES , then switch to Bel Canto Ref1000 as power amp.  Source for Audio is Denon DVD-3910 via Denon Link to Denon AVP-A1HDA.  Speaker cables is Monster Cables at the moment, will be changing to a pair of Alpha Cable soon.  Listening area is a typical HDB bedroom.  Speaker placement about 2 feet from corner, toe-in, aiming at listener.

 

Listening sofa is a red IKEA.

 

 

Despite many attempts by Sammy and Sanjay to make me change my speaker cables, I finally did so and replaced my Monster Cables with what they recommended as bare minimum, the Alpha Cables. You see, when it comes to cables, I am a "Giam Kan Nan" (Sour Olive) because I believe no matter what you buy and at whatever price, you can never be sure what you are getting.

 

The results I got last night is simply beyond my expectations; yes, improved but not improve until like that mah!!!  The Thiels were elevated to new higher level of resolution and details, just like upgraded to 3.8 or changed some new power amps.  Every CDs I played, I have never hear them this good. Vocals are more solid then before, all the music instruments, especailly soft precussion ones, now jump out at you with details you never knew existed.  My neighbours must had hated me last night as I could not stop until 2am.

 

The silver looking cable is the Alpha and the white one is the Monster.  Thinner cables but better sound!

 

Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......

 

 

2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)

For audio, Plinius CD-101 with Plinius 9200 integrated amp, both with Acrolink 4030 power cords.  Mogami 2803 interconnects and mogami 2804 speaker cables. 

 

 

3. DoggieHowser CS2.4

Placement: Living room which is unpartitioned fom the dining room.

 

Gear: Benchmark DAC1 Pre (balanced interconnect can't recall the brand) to Bel Canto REF1000 to CS2.4 with QED Revelation. AVR (Onkyo 875) is hooked up using AudioEngine's AW1 sender/receiver to Benchmark Pre's analog input.

 

CS2.4s slightly less than 8 feet apart, facing forward with no toe-in now (found that the sound seemed less shrill with this layout), with about 1.25 foot away from the back wall.

 

(taken with iphone camera so everything is grainy)

 

Between the speakers sit the subwoofer and center speaker and my audio (non HT) gear. A fan sits between the left speaker and the subwoofer. The CS2.4s are slightly in front of the subwoofer/fan.

 

Left speaker is about 1 foot from side (full length windows but covered by black out curtains, which in hindsight is a good thing since it helps against side reflections.

 

Right speaker side is open area (opens to dining area).

 

 

4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)

listening area is abt 3.5m by 3.5 m

 

CS1.6 slightly 8 ft apart, no toe-ing in.1 ft from backwall.  SCS4 placed in betw

 

For audio, CDP is Bel Canto CD-2, powered by Bel Canto S300. IC is Siltech SQ-28, speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.

For Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival.

 

I manually switch speaker cable to the CS1.6 when i'm listening to music or  home theatre.

 

 

5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4

Mine still wrapped up as am concentrating on new addition to the family.

 

Planned to drive them with either a customised 7W 2A3 push pull tube amp, a customised 200W Tripath TA3020 Class T amp and other DIY/customised pre/power amps in between. Problem.

 

Source: various customised CD players/DACs/Phono/TT. Cables: various silver concoctions.

 

Room: Yet to be configured 4.5 x 3.5m room.

 

Why CS2.4s? Because any changes that I make in the signal path, from equipment to caps and internal wiring, I will hear it.

 

 

6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2

 

7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)

I placed my CS2.4 about 2.5ft from the back and 1.2ft from the side wall. Please refer to pic.

 

I am using

 

CD player : Marantz SA14ver2

Pre : Integra DTC 9.8

Power amp : Plinius SA102

Interconnect : XLR Balance x 2pair, 1.5m. Audioquest Diamond from power to pre and pre to CD Player

Specker cable : Kimber Kable Monocle XL 6 ft.

 

 

 

8. Charcoal CS2.3 + SCS2

 

 

 

 

[jayou]

Hi Bro,

 

Finally bot a test pen.  3 pc have 9 o'clock lighted up and one 3 o'clock lighted up.  >:(

 

What should I do now?  ta

 

Bro, poke the female IEC of ur power cord,  If all lightsup at 3 o'clock, u are safe.  If all light up at 9 o'clock, u just need to reverse one wiring at the plug that your power strip is connected to.

 

However, I won't be surprised if some light up at 3 and some at 9, then u got a handful to re-terminate liao.   ;)

[Guest jonlee]

Bro jayou...use the test pen to probe ur japan power strip, with earth at 12 o'clock.  My guess 9 o'clock will light up.  Correct?

[jayou]

Alamak ... japan power strip has 3 o'clock lighted up

 

Bro jayou...use the test pen to probe ur japan power strip, with earth at 12 o'clock.  My guess 9 o'clock will light up.  Correct?

[Guest jonlee]

One less problem.  Ur japan power strip has been wired to local UK standard.  Thus u only need to ensure all ur US plugs power cord are also wired up in the loca UK standard.

 

Of ur existing power cords, the 3 with 9 o'clock lighted up are wired in US standard.  U need to swap at one end the live-neutral to get them to UK standard.

 

The other power cord which lighted up at 3 o'clock is wired in UK standard.  No need to touch that.

 

From now onwards, always get all power cords wired up in UK standard. 

[Doggie Howser]

Q: with all the power cords and power strip differences, is it safe to assume that on the component side, whether it is a UK or US device, the polarity is NEVER reversed?

 

 

[Guest jonlee]

IEC standard 3 o'clock is always live.  If component follow IEC, then it will always be correct.

 

If want to be sure, will need to open up conponent to check where the incoming fuse is (should be connected to live).

[jayou]

Thanks bro.  So if I swap the live-neutral ends, do I do it at the IEC or pwr connector?  Need any shouldering skills?  :(

 

Q:  Why do they sell US standard US pc in sing?  Actually I got one set from LHS.  Why are they terminating US standard?  hmmm ...

 

Of ur existing power cords, the 3 with 9 o'clock lighted up are wired in US standard.  U need to swap at one end the live-neutral to get them to UK standard.

The other power cord which lighted up at 3 o'clock is wired in UK standard.  No need to touch that.

From now onwards, always get all power cords wired up in UK standard. 

[Guest jonlee]

IEC or plug end both fine, but I will suggest u try plug end first.  That end should be easier to swap.

 

Actually, when using US plug, if following the label, it will definitely end up reverse to local standard.  US plug is expected to be used together with US socket, which is reversed compared to UK socket.  2 reverse make one positive.  Do also note that most off-the-shelf factory terminated US plug power cords are terminated in the US standard.

 

Actually, I'm quite puzzled ur japan power strip is showing live at 3 o'clock.  Someone had intentionally or accidentally reverse the polarity.

 

Another option for u is to switch the live-neutral of your power strip, and use all US plug power cords in the original US wiring.  Just curious, u have one power cord which is terminated in UK style.  Which power cord is that?

[jayou]

Hi bro,

Now everything makes sense to me liaoo.  I just remembered I got the japan power strip and the UK style pc from the same guy second hand.  He must have delibrate diy it the be the same.

 

I think I will try to reverse them as it is more convenient than to do 3 pc.  Thanks for the advise again.

 

IEC or plug end both fine, but I will suggest u try plug end first.  That end should be easier to swap.

 

Actually, when using US plug, if following the label, it will definitely end up reverse to local standard.  US plug is expected to be used together with US socket, which is reversed compared to UK socket.  2 reverse make one positive.  Do also note that most factory terminated US plug are terminated is the US standard.

 

Actually, I'm quite puzzled ur japan power strip is showing live at 3 o'clock.  Someone had intentionally or accidentally reverse the polarity.

 

Another option for u is to switch the live-neutral of your power strip, and use all US plug power cords in the original US wiring.  Just curious, u have one power cord which is terminated in UK style.  Which power cord is that?

[Charcoal]

guys,

 

can put up your amp, source, speaker cable, listening area, and the (main) speakers placement too  ?

 

sharing your experiences how to optimize your Thiel speakers performance (e.g. positioning, pairing with equipments, cables etc) is even better

 

why ?

 

I still own the old CS2.3 and SCS2, but they seldom sing as firstly no time and especially since I shifted the whole audio system from the hall to a small study room.

 

Int Amp : Accuphase E530

Amp Power Cord : DIY VDH Mainsstream Hybrid (Furutech IEC / Plug)

CD Player : OPPO 983

CDP Power Cord : DIY XLO Reference (Furutec plug / IEC)

Interconnect Cable : Transparent Audio Ultra RCA

Speaker Cable : Aural Symphonics AS-One (copper)

Listening Area (Hall) : 32 feet x 16 feet

Speakers Positioning : 5 Feet away fm rear wall, 4 feet fm side wall & 8 feet apart each other, no toe in.

Tweaks : Solid Steel H5.4, DH Cones, Linn Skeets,

 

[Doggie Howser]

Feel free to add on (I know some of you guys got them as center/surround as well)

 

 

1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2

Was using the Sony TA-DA9000ES , then switch to Bel Canto Ref1000 as power amp.  Source for Audio is Denon DVD-3910 via Denon Link to Denon AVP-A1HDA.  Speaker cables is Monster Cables at the moment, will be changing to a pair of Alpha Cable soon.  Listening area is a typical HDB bedroom.  Speaker placement about 2 feet from corner, toe-in, aiming at listener.

 

Listening sofa is a red IKEA.

 

 

Despite many attempts by Sammy and Sanjay to make me change my speaker cables, I finally did so and replaced my Monster Cables with what they recommended as bare minimum, the Alpha Cables. You see, when it comes to cables, I am a "Giam Kan Nan" (Sour Olive) because I believe no matter what you buy and at whatever price, you can never be sure what you are getting.

 

The results I got last night is simply beyond my expectations; yes, improved but not improve until like that mah!!!  The Thiels were elevated to new higher level of resolution and details, just like upgraded to 3.8 or changed some new power amps.  Every CDs I played, I have never hear them this good. Vocals are more solid then before, all the music instruments, especailly soft precussion ones, now jump out at you with details you never knew existed.  My neighbours must had hated me last night as I could not stop until 2am.

 

The silver looking cable is the Alpha and the white one is the Monster.  Thinner cables but better sound!

 

Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......

 

 

2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)

For audio, Plinius CD-101 with Plinius 9200 integrated amp, both with Acrolink 4030 power cords.  Mogami 2803 interconnects and mogami 2804 speaker cables. 

 

 

3. DoggieHowser CS2.4

Placement: Living room which is unpartitioned fom the dining room.

 

Gear: Benchmark DAC1 Pre (balanced interconnect can't recall the brand) to Bel Canto REF1000 to CS2.4 with QED Revelation. AVR (Onkyo 875) is hooked up using AudioEngine's AW1 sender/receiver to Benchmark Pre's analog input.

 

CS2.4s slightly less than 8 feet apart, facing forward with no toe-in now (found that the sound seemed less shrill with this layout), with about 1.25 foot away from the back wall.

 

(taken with iphone camera so everything is grainy)

 

Between the speakers sit the subwoofer and center speaker and my audio (non HT) gear. A fan sits between the left speaker and the subwoofer. The CS2.4s are slightly in front of the subwoofer/fan.

 

Left speaker is about 1 foot from side (full length windows but covered by black out curtains, which in hindsight is a good thing since it helps against side reflections.

 

Right speaker side is open area (opens to dining area).

 

 

4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)

listening area is abt 3.5m by 3.5 m

 

CS1.6 slightly 8 ft apart, no toe-ing in.1 ft from backwall.  SCS4 placed in betw

 

For audio, CDP is Bel Canto CD-2, powered by Bel Canto S300. IC is Siltech SQ-28, speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.

For Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival.

 

I manually switch speaker cable to the CS1.6 when i'm listening to music or  home theatre.

 

 

5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4

Mine still wrapped up as am concentrating on new addition to the family.

 

Planned to drive them with either a customised 7W 2A3 push pull tube amp, a customised 200W Tripath TA3020 Class T amp and other DIY/customised pre/power amps in between. Problem.

 

Source: various customised CD players/DACs/Phono/TT. Cables: various silver concoctions.

 

Room: Yet to be configured 4.5 x 3.5m room.

 

Why CS2.4s? Because any changes that I make in the signal path, from equipment to caps and internal wiring, I will hear it.

 

 

6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2

 

7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)

I placed my CS2.4 about 2.5ft from the back and 1.2ft from the side wall. Please refer to pic.

 

I am using

 

CD player : Marantz SA14ver2

Pre : Integra DTC 9.8

Power amp : Plinius SA102

Interconnect : XLR Balance x 2pair, 1.5m. Audioquest Diamond from power to pre and pre to CD Player

Specker cable : Kimber Kable Monocle XL 6 ft.

 

 

 

8. Charcoal CS2.3 + SCS2

I still own the old CS2.3 and SCS2, but they seldom sing as firstly no time and especially since I shifted the whole audio system from the hall to a small study room.

 

Int Amp : Accuphase E530

Amp Power Cord : DIY VDH Mainsstream Hybrid (Furutech IEC / Plug)

CD Player : OPPO 983

CDP Power Cord : DIY XLO Reference (Furutec plug / IEC)

Interconnect Cable : Transparent Audio Ultra RCA

Speaker Cable : Aural Symphonics AS-One (copper)

Listening Area (Hall) : 32 feet x 16 feet

Speakers Positioning : 5 Feet away fm rear wall, 4 feet fm side wall & 8 feet apart each other, no toe in.

Tweaks : Solid Steel H5.4, DH Cones, Linn Skeets, 

 

[DIYer Straits]

 

 

(

 

Aha! Sanity prevailed. ;D

[Doggie Howser]

*facepalm*

 

(self inflicted) ;)

 

wonder how long it would take for missus to notice when she gets back from her tour

 

hehe

[Audio]

DH, are you using the Alpha Cables?

 

(Audio)

[Doggie Howser]

DH, are you using the Alpha Cables?

 

(Audio)

 

Using QED Revelations. Seems a good match. Don't dare to try the Synergistic stuff. I have read the reviews from Enjoy The Music (think his listening styles very similar to mine)... and he loves them so that's bad news to me ;)

 

Here let me help poison you...

http://www.soundstage.com/equipment/synergistic_research_tesla_apex.htm

 

paiseh.. link wrongly :)

 

Prices: Apex interconnects, $3600 USD per meter pair; Precision Reference interconnects, $2600 per meter pair, Apex speaker cables, $6500 per eight-foot pair.

 

This one cheaper than the other one I sent earlier.

 

 

[Audio]

How to poison me??  At US$7,500 per metre pair; US$15,000 per eight foot pair, I will not pay for any cables than cost more than the equipment....period.

 

(Audio)

 

Our friend has walk up to my office and reserved 5 pieces of the power cords for me in his next shipment......sigh!!!

[Doggie Howser]

How to poison me??   At US$7,500 per metre pair; US$15,000 per eight foot pair, I will not pay for any cables than cost more than the equipment....period.

 

(Audio)

 

Our friend has walk up to my office and reserved 5 pieces of the power cords for me in his next shipment......sigh!!!

 

Paiseh I posted wrong link. This one is "mid" tier model from Synergistic.

 

Cheaper by almost half ;)

 

 

 

[Doggie Howser]

(reposted from the Power Conditioner thread...)

 

At the risk of scuppering my WTS ad later, let me first say that the Xindak just does not work for my setup at all.

 

When I first plugged in the Xindak, I was still running in my gear so didn't notice much of a difference in the SQ, except that the vocals seemed a bit more recessed.

 

Today, francis SMSd me to tell me his friend got the G&W in and asked me to test it out.

 

I got back and happily plugged out the iego plugs from the Xindak and transferred them to the G&W. The G&W is 2 plugs down on the Xindak but overall is slimmer and easier to hide behind the rack. Just took note to use the "unfiltered" plugs for the power amp as recommended by francis.

 

I had switched back to Bon Jovi's Never Say Goodbye just before swapping the conditioners over. And after I plugged everything in... restarted Mr Bon Jovi and his band... and whoosh. Amazed how much more oomph there was in the bassline. My Thiels! I hast wronged thee! :P

 

Jon is still more reticent than with B&Ws, but he's definitely more in your face with the G&W.

 

Scary how so much can go wrong when you don't match your gear properly...

 

 

[Doggie Howser]

Holy cow! Just listened to the song properly (was in concall earlier). The initial transients of the drum hits are much more apparent and more obvious. And I swear I never heard that electric guitar on the Thiels earlier.

 

 

[Guest jonlee]

DH, have u used the test pen to verify the xindak and G&W polarity?