Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners & Discussion Thread

[DJQ]

The B&W 685 and MA RS6 both should be MIC. Can't remember where I read that before. But Jason should be able to confirm that. Therefore, I do expect them to be more VFM actually. Just like the marantz SA/PM8003 that I have. They are MIC and compared to UK prices, it is VVFM in S'pore.

 

You mentioned that the RS6 should be compared to the CM range. The problem is, if you compare the price in S'pore, the 600s range already looks like a higher range than the RS range from MA. The RS6 should be compared to the 684. The 684 is £7xx while the RS6 is £6xx. How much is the 684 selling in S'pore? I dare not even ask for a quote. Really.

 

Anyway, no point arguing and comparing about all these. The fact is the 685 cost S$10xx. The RS6 coast S$12xx. There is no doubt about th eprices here. I think whether VFM or not depends on the individual.

 

:)

 

ok point noted.  :)

[watchthewaves]

Hi Jason, either I am reading this the wrong way or I am actually raedling what I am reading.

 

If this is your respond, you can be sure I will never step foot into your show room. Neither will I even take a look at any B&W speakers from your dealers.

 

End of story.  :P

 

Bro,

There's a smiley in his post -- it was light-hearted.  Believe he meant to ask you to feel free to pop by and have a listen, no obligation to buy.

 

If any speaker is in your consideration, shouldn't you be arranging for a listen and then talk to the sales person to find out how flexible they are with their pricing?  Why shortlist by the British pound list price when you are buying in Singapore?

 

Years ago, I went to listen to many speakers (and of course asked about price too), and paid repeated visits to some too, before finally settling on my purchase.  Many were friendly and accomodating.  There were some that were arrogant or very pushy.  For those, you just simply decide not to go back again.

[hobbeslow]

Anyway, no point arguing and comparing about all these. The fact is the 685 cost S$10xx. The RS6 coast S$12xx. There is no doubt about th eprices here. I think whether VFM or not depends on the individual.

 

 

Hi cstanxpl,

 

I am not a B&W owner, but I do read this thread as there are interesting discussions going on here.

 

I own a RS6, and I've heard both the B&W 685 and 684, although only after I placed the order for the RS6. I'm a long time MA fan and personally, I prefer the MA sonic signature. However, I can see why others may want to pay a premium for the B&W. I would say that B&W's reproduction is more neutral than the MA; as you know, MAs are known to accentuate the treble in music, and most people either like it or don't. It's down to a question of musical taste.

 

What I am saying is that price is only one factor, but what you get for that price is also important. Like I said, most people I know either like or cannot tahan the MA sound. If you cannot taha the MA sound, you may not even want to pay S$100 for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cstanxpl]

Bro,

There's a smiley in his post -- it was light-hearted.  Believe he meant to ask you to feel free to pop by and have a listen, no obligation to buy.

 

If any speaker is in your consideration, shouldn't you be arranging for a listen and then talk to the sales person to find out how flexible they are with their pricing?  Why shortlist by the British pound list price when you are buying in Singapore?

 

Years ago, I went to listen to many speakers (and of course asked about price too), and paid repeated visits to some too, before finally settling on my purchase.  Many were friendly and accomodating.  There were some that were arrogant or very pushy.  For those, you just simply decide not to go back again.

 

Sorry, I tend to be a bit sensitive lately. Don't ask.  :P

 

My apologies to Jason if I have misread his post and sound harsh. I have a tongue sticking out too eh.

 

I compare in £ simply due to the fact that the mags that I read are British mags. I know. Don't reply on reviews, audition what I am interested in etc.

 

However, there are too many models to audition and the mags are there to help to filter out those that does not seem worthy to buy. At the same time, the prices are being compared.

 

B&W and MA are British brand as well. Even now that they are MIC, they are still priced higher than in UK. Taking the exchange rate as 2.24. Teh MA provideing a better VFM ratio than the B&W.

 

Likewise, when I purchase US products, I compare Sing price to US$.

[cstanxpl]

Hi cstanxpl,

 

I am not a B&W owner, but I do read this thread as there are interesting discussions going on here.

 

I own a RS6, and I've heard both the B&W 685 and 684, although only after I placed the order for the RS6. I'm a long time MA fan and personally, I prefer the MA sonic signature. However, I can see why others may want to pay a premium for the B&W. I would say that B&W's reproduction is more neutral than the MA; as you know, MAs are known to accentuate the treble in music, and most people either like it or don't. It's down to a question of musical taste.

 

What I am saying is that price is only one factor, but what you get for that price is also important. Like I said, most people I know either like or cannot tahan the MA sound. If you cannot taha the MA sound, you may not even want to pay S$100 for it.

 

Which is why I choose marantz electronics. They have a slight warm to their tone, both CDP and AMP. To balance out the treble for the MA RS6.  ;D

 

Personally, I find the RS6 to be quite neutral too. But when I audition, it was not through the marantz.

 

[Doggie Howser]

As I posted elsewhere :) B&Ws do excel with my old 80s rock and roll CDs.

 

After running in the Thiels now and playing Bon Jovi's Never Say Goodbye, I was struck by how polite Jon sounded during that song :P Definitely not what I remembered listening to growing up. In other tracks where the bass was in the recording like Luther Vandross' Dance With My Father, the bass was prominent, but if it's not in the recording, it's just not there.

 

On the other hand, the B&Ws (both on my friend's and my old 601S2s) had no such problems. They added the "rock" atmosphere to the same track. Can even imagine holding a candle in concert atmosphere..

 

Horses for courses, as they say :)

[hobbeslow]

Which is why I choose marantz electronics. They have a slight warm to their tone, both CDP and AMP. To balance out the treble for the MA RS6.  ;D

Personally, I find the RS6 to be quite neutral too. But when I audition, it was not through the marantz.

 

Bro, I'm gonna reply to your post on the MA owner's thread. Let's not OT here.  ;)

[yihyan]

You mentioned that the RS6 should be compared to the CM range. The problem is, if you compare the price in S'pore, the 600s range already looks like a higher range than the RS range from MA. The RS6 should be compared to the 684. The 684 is £7xx while the RS6 is £6xx. How much is the 684 selling in S'pore? I dare not even ask for a quote. Really.

 

Anyway, no point arguing and comparing about all these. The fact is the 685 cost S$10xx. The RS6 coast S$12xx. There is no doubt about th eprices here. I think whether VFM or not depends on the individual.

 

:)

 

Category wise, i think you should compare RS6 with 684 as both are floorstanders....

[yihyan]

685 again won the group tests in What Hifi's latest April issues.  

 

Jason,

 

maybe you need to check out the comment below:

 

In the end, then, it’s almost a horses-for-courses call. If you want muscle and flexibility go for the B&Ws, and if you want ultimate speed and precision go for the Mordaunt-Shorts.

 

If the price of the two front-runners were the same, it would be an even closer call, but, as there’s a £70 price difference, the cheaper pair eventually wins out.

 

Taken from What Hi Fi review of MS Mezzo 2 http://whathifi.com/Review/Mordaunt-Short-Mezzo-2/

 

so, again, it boils down to the price again...

[hobbeslow]

so, again, it boils down to the price again...

 

Hi YY,

 

The review below states the B&W's MRSP to be 380 pounds, i.e. 70 pounds lower than the MS. As such i believe the review is saying that the B&W would be the winner if all else is equal.

 

http://whathifi.com/Review/BandW-685/

[yihyan]

Hi YY,

 

The review below states the B&W's MRSP to be 380 pounds, i.e. 70 pounds lower than the MS. As such i believe the review is saying that the B&W would be the winner if all else is equal.

 

http://whathifi.com/Review/BandW-685/

 

hey bro,

 

You got my msg wrong. No doubt B&W 685 is the winner. But what i wanted to highlight is that 685 is the winner because they are 70 pounds cheaper :)

The same cannot be say here.....as i mentioned earlier, the price difference here in sg is somehow very significant....

[hobbeslow]

hey bro,

 

You got my msg wrong. No doubt B&W 685 is the winner. But what i wanted to highlight is that 685 is the winner because they are 70 pounds cheaper :)

The same cannot be say here.....as i mentioned earlier, the price difference here in sg is somehow very significant....

 

Ah, I see!

 

OK, my bad. Not fully immersed in this thread la....

[Doggie Howser]

You got my msg wrong. No doubt B&W 685 is the winner. But what i wanted to highlight is that 685 is the winner because they are 70 pounds cheaper :)

The same cannot be say here.....as i mentioned earlier, the price difference here in sg is somehow very significant....

 

He wasn't the only one. I too thought the Mezzo won cos it was cheaper until I compared the prices on the UK site.

[cstanxpl]

Category wise, i think you should compare RS6 with 684 as both are floorstanders....

 

That's what I said leh.

 

You mentioned that the RS6 should be compared to the CM range. The problem is, if you compare the price in S'pore, the 600s range already looks like a higher range than the RS range from MA. The RS6 should be compared to the 684. The 684 is £7xx while the RS6 is £6xx. How much is the 684 selling in S'pore? I dare not even ask for a quote. Really.

 

Never asked this before. But how much is the 684? ???

[yihyan]

That's what I said leh.

 

Never asked this before. But how much is the 684? ???

 

whoopppss.... guess my eye is playing trick :|

 

684? hm...about 25% more than the RS6. Look boy, its not about the price, i swear they are worth the premium.....

[hobbeslow]

684? hm...about 25% more than the RS6. Look boy, its not about the price, i swear they are worth the premium.....

 

Its all about personal taste, my friend.... ;)

[raysusan]

i am looking for a reasonable integrated amp for my n805s

 

any advise and recommendation form u guys here?

[DJQ]

i am looking for a reasonable integrated amp for my n805s

 

any advise and recommendation form u guys here?

 

budget?

[jasonteong]

Jason,

 

maybe you need to check out the comment below:

 

Taken from What Hi Fi review of MS Mezzo 2 http://whathifi.com/Review/Mordaunt-Short-Mezzo-2/

 

so, again, it boils down to the price again...

 

Hi Yihyan,

MS Mz2 have a 2nd order crossover vs the cheaper 685 that have a 1st order crossover.  Then there is the more expensive kevlar driver fixed center driver vs the aluminum driver.

 

And we are comparing a 120w vs a 100w (685) speaker, yet it lost in terms of "muscle and low-end grunt of the B&Ws".

 

If the rationale to consider is that you can "boost rating" because of the the more expensive prices, then B&W will have alot more awards since B&W is known to price themselves high. 

 

And to sum it up, the review never said MS MZ2 wins due to the lower price.  it said its "a close call".  And given the fact that the 685won the group test in April magazine issue (winning Tannoy EPOS and Dali even though it is the most expensive), does affirms its position.

 

Jason

[jasonteong]

 

B&W and MA are British brand as well. Even now that they are MIC, they are still priced higher than in UK. Taking the exchange rate as 2.24. Teh MA provideing a better VFM ratio than the B&W.

 

Likewise, when I purchase US products, I compare Sing price to US$.

 

 

As usual, we have this dilemma - we price against UK, people walk in tell us about USD, we price against USD, we have people tell us its a UK product.  We price against the South African Rand, people say we are crazy.  And midst of it all, the currency fluctuate like the roller coaster.

 

Anyway, as I said - one small step at a time.  we are not the only one that understand this problem and things is shifting (glacier speed).

 

Meanwhile, I can only say that, while there is alot of brands out there and magazines is often one of the easy reference, I can only say that if that particular brand matters in the industry, then it will be worth your time to listen to it.  Even if you do not buy it, you have a reference point.  Our showroom, is geared towards marketing before sales - ie as stealing a popular cookie store/brands tagline : "Free Sound".

 

Thanks

jason

[yihyan]

Hi Yihyan,

MS Mz2 have a 2nd order crossover vs the cheaper 685 that have a 1st order crossover.  Then there is the more expensive kevlar driver fixed center driver vs the aluminum driver.

 

And we are comparing a 120w vs a 100w (685) speaker, yet it lost in terms of "muscle and low-end grunt of the B&Ws".

 

If the rationale to consider is that you can "boost rating" because of the the more expensive prices, then B&W will have alot more awards since B&W is known to price themselves high. 

 

And to sum it up, the review never said MS MZ2 wins due to the lower price.  it said its "a close call".  And given the fact that the 685won the group test in April magazine issue (winning Tannoy EPOS and Dali even though it is the most expensive), does affirms its position.

 

Jason

Hi Jason,

 

Just going to make a quick reply. Seems my post got a lot of you confused.

 

First, the 685 won against MS MZ2.

Second, the 685 won because it is the cheaper between the two (and others competitors)

 

So, if the setup and pricing of the shootout/group test is done here in Singapore, everything would have been different.

 

The below excerpt is taken from MZ2 verdict:

In the end, then, it’s almost a horses-for-courses call. If you want muscle and flexibility go for the B&Ws, and if you want ultimate speed and precision go for the Mordaunt-Shorts.

 

If the price of the two front-runners were the same, it would be an even closer call, but, as there’s a £70 price difference, the cheaper pair eventually wins out.

"the cheaper pair" mentioned above = the 685.

 

Seriously, i don't care if they are kevlar driver, aluminum driver, wood cone driver..etc... as long as they sound nice to my pair of ears, then they are good speakers.... the same to the watts rating.

[music_loft]

 

Seriously, i don't care if they are kevlar driver, aluminum driver, wood cone driver..etc... as long as they sound nice to my pair of ears, then they are good speakers.... the same to the watts rating.

 

Hi,

 

Just want to comment a little on the above. So do you mean if a pair of speaker that are priced much higher than most, but to you, if it sounded good, you will accept it as a pair of good speakers given that it is much higher priced?

 

If the above is what you try to project, then i am getting a little confuse on your standpoint. You have right from the beginning feels that you will never consider steeping into TEG showroom because you feel that there is a "barrier" and this "barrier" is price. Now when Jason try to point out the difference between the 2 pairs of speakers you mentioned, you commented that whatever the specs are you do not care as long as it sound good. So if a pair of speaker that sound good and yet expensive, do you consider it a good pair of speaker?

 

Once again, if the answer is yes, then why aren't you giving B&W and TEG a chance? It is evident that B&W speakers are priced slightly above others for the simple fact that they are premium. It is also evident that B&W has won numerous awards and their specs though are not the best in the industry but the sonic performance are one of the leader. But you seems to be very against B&W leh....

 

Sorry if i sounded blunt but as i am a proud owner of a pair of 685 and a unit of 610, both bought from TEG and i just feel that some of your comments are pretty unjustifiable and you seems to be against TEG.

 

Once again, i am not trying to start another argument here but this is just what i feel and would like to voice out...

 

Sorry if i have offended anyone... PEACE.... :) :) :)

[cstanxpl]

I think what yihyan is trying to say is that it does not matter what material is used for the speaker or what technology is used, what wattage it can handle, as long as the speaker sounds nice/good to him, it is considered a good speaker. He did not mentioned about prices.

 

Taking the comparison of the 685 & Mezzo 2 speakers. The review was in a UK mag, I believe. Therefore UK prices are being compared. The 685 was £38x and the MEzzo 2 was £45x. The review comment that they are in overall, rated about the same in sound ability. Therefore, the 685, being £70 cheaper, won the test.

 

But in SIngapore, the Mezzo 2, I think is slightly cheaper (I could be wrong but definitley closer in value) than the 685. Therefore, since we will be paying in Singapore price, the UK test conclusion that on the 685 and Mezzo 2 is no longer "valid". As the test did comment that if the two models were priced similar in £, the outcome will be a closer call. And.. "If you want muscle and flexibility go for the B&Ws, and if you want ultimate speed and precision go for the Mordaunt-Shorts". So different people can go for different taste in music. If the 685 is priced at 18% less than the Mezzo 2 (taking £70 as the difference) in Singapore, the UK test conclusion will still be very much valid.

 

I think there is this confusion going on where the comparison are in uk £. Not in Singapore $. The reviews and awards won by the 685 are in UK, therefore, they are valued in £. But when we compare them here, we should compare them in Singapore $ value.

 

That is my opinion. Sorry if I step in anyone's toe again.

 

 

[yihyan]

thanks cstanxpl, you pretty much summed up everything i wish to say :)

 

It is evident that B&W speakers are priced slightly above others for the simple fact that they are premium.

I don't think they enjoy this 'premium' in the UK market afaik.

 

Once again, if the answer is yes, then why aren't you giving B&W and TEG a chance?

And i say it one more time, TEG is not the only place we can listen to the B&W.....and in fact, I did went somewhere else to audition the B&Ws :)

 

It is also evident that B&W has won numerous awards and their specs though are not the best in the industry but the sonic performance are one of the leader. But you seems to be very against B&W leh....

seriously, i take those awards, spec and claims with a grain of salt....i am the one buying myself a pair of speakers...so i should be the judge myself :) i'm not going to buy the 685s becoz some angmoh claimed it to be the best speakers of the millennium for that price....

 

and since when i'm against B&W?

 

for the CM1, check my short impression posted in another thread... it was so good that i almost bought it home...(of coz that is before i audition other alternatives and compare their price)

B&W CM1(amp: cyrus 8vs2): very involving. the bass was fast, tight and just nice. Although the impact wasn't that great, but considering the size of the speaker, i have no complaint. The mid and high are all at the right place, imaging was great. I honestly feels the soundstage is bigger than the 684 :| weird.

[cstanxpl]

And given the fact that the 685won the group test in April magazine issue (winning Tannoy EPOS and Dali even though it is the most expensive), does affirms its position.

 

Jason

 

Hi Jason, sorry to say this as I do not wish to deepen any more misunderstanding.

 

But the 685, by being the more expensive speaker in the group, had better win the test simply because it is expected to win due to it's higher price. If it is the cheapest in the group and won, then it is something to shout about.

 

The Dali gave it a good run for it's money though. And actually, given the price difference between the Dali and B&W, I actually expected the Dali to win. Just like when B&W won the test against the Mezzo 2. But then again, the mag made decision based on sound per £. And sometimes I don't get their way of thinking.  :P