SPANDAU BALLET Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Hi team. Never built anything electrical..............hang on that crystal radio in 1980. I am Handy I think I want to build a Sub....why you may ask? Cost..........I say. I also have one of these sitting around. Shes in Perfect working order..... so I need to build a Passive Sub. Suggestions?...........12" Im asking here because I respect the combined knowledge around here a lot more than some random internet searches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wozza_Lee Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Dayton ultimax are great bang for buck.Need to know budget, amp power, use etc to give more detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 9 hours ago, SPANDAU BALLET said: Suggestions?...........12" It depends a lot on how low and loud you want the subwoofer to play before distortion becomes a problem. To limit down your choices, you should consider how large you would like the box to be.... in many ways this will dictate everything. DIY can get very high performance for the cost ..... but if you don't know what you are doing, I think it is really important to find a well documented build that you can copy. For example, the choice of driver and amplifier matter a lot lot less, than exactly what you do with them..... building a box and putting a driver in it, is in many ways the "easy part". 9 hours ago, SPANDAU BALLET said: Im asking here because I respect the combined knowledge around here a lot more than some random internet searches. You may get a little more direct attention here .... but I don't really think it is the best site to be asking the question. Try htshack or avs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A9X Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) Not much of an amp for any decent sub. Get a UM18 and build a full Marty sub. You'll also need a capable low pass as well as a high pass filter. Marty FAQ. Edited January 30, 2019 by A9X 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 31 minutes ago, A9X said: Not much of an amp for any decent sub. Good spot. Had completely ignored the amp.... as you have to choose the sub first, before you know what amp will/won't drive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wozza_Lee Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 +1 for a martysub. Chose a size that suits you best. Very efficient, easy to build and well documented design with multiple drivers etc that have been used with great results 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPANDAU BALLET Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 Cool appreciate the thoughts. The room is huge 12mx7m 3 couches, x-trainer etc.... i will consider all suggestions. I’m dissapointed the AMP wont cut it. I thought the 180w per channel... from the old mosfet monster would suffice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wozza_Lee Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Cool appreciate the thoughts. The room is huge 12mx7m 3 couches, x-trainer etc.... i will consider all suggestions. I’m dissapointed the AMP wont cut it. I thought the 180w per channel... from the old mosfet monster would suffice [emoji3525]Each octave lower you go (assuming its the same Spl) requires 2x the power (watts) and 4x the excursion.As an example i use a iNuke 6000 or 3000 for my subs, with an efficient ported design your amp may be enough depending on requirements (in a big room maybe not).Having built a traditional round port. Multiple sealed designs, a tombstone and 3x different size martysubs. My all time favourite is the martycube, super efficient and sounds great with a 15-18" driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPANDAU BALLET Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 Found this on the AMP: 350W RMS, tested at 1 kHz for an hour into a 4ohm resistive load. I know the frequency response tapers off around 25kHz based on it's filter networks. Peak power was over 450W based on short impulse (kick drum). 180 Real Watts Continuous. The Behringer looks like a POS...............what am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundbyte Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 16 hours ago, SPANDAU BALLET said: from the old mosfet monster would suffice Your probably not missing much, as yet, not tested in your system. You at least have an amplifier to try with your new sub woofer build, if it does not suit then move onto something that does suit. No fast moves, before testing it first. I use an old Rotel 1070 amplifier (modified in the front end) 100W per channel for my sub amplifier, probably not "audiophile enough for some" but it does work and I think works well. I have tried a number of different amplifiers but the old Rotel still does as well as those I tried for the range of frequencies that it handles ~20Hz to 100Hz. Nobody that has heard my system as far as I remember has commented that the Rotel is not up to the job of producing lots of nicely controlled open baffle bass. There are a great number of amplifiers I see for sale on SNA that may well be "better" but I usually cannot afford them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wozza_Lee Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Yeah the behringer is not an expensive amp, and so quality control/consistency seems to be quite poor (although that can be said for a lot of high dollar stuff as well). I have seen a lot of tests with wildly different resultsMost seem to sit around 600-650 wrms for the iNuke 3000 on a continuous load, i have measured mine and it compared exactly the same.I am also a little suspicious of some of the 'testing protocols' that are implemented out there that i have seen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPANDAU BALLET Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 18 minutes ago, soundbyte said: Your probably not missing much, as yet, not tested in your system. You at least have an amplifier to try with your new sub woofer build, if it does not suit then move onto something that does suit. No fast moves, before testing it first. I use an old Rotel 1070 amplifier (modified in the front end) 100W per channel for my sub amplifier, probably not "audiophile enough for some" but it does work and I think works well. I have tried a number of different amplifiers but the old Rotel still does as well as those I tried for the range of frequencies that it handles ~20Hz to 100Hz. Nobody that has heard my system as far as I remember has commented that the Rotel is not up to the job of producing lots of nicely controlled open baffle bass. There are a great number of amplifiers I see for sale on SNA that may well be "better" but I usually cannot afford them. Firstly: Sound advice Question: The Rotel is driving how big a sub for you?....Driver size? I am also curious what design it is if its a "DIY build"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, SPANDAU BALLET said: I’m dissapointed the AMP wont cut it As I pointed out .... you don't know the answer to that until you decide what subwoofer to build. Although subs which aren't enormous, usually need a lot of power. If you have lots of space, you could build a subwoofer that only needed 1/10th of the power (~35 watts) .... or you could build a subwoofer which needed 10 times the power (3.5 kilowatts) 1 hour ago, SPANDAU BALLET said: what am I missing? That you should choose your subwoofer first, and then based on that, an appropriate amplifier. 27 minutes ago, soundbyte said: I use an old Rotel 1070 amplifier (modified in the front end) 100W per channel for my sub amplifier Yes, but your subwoofer needs very little power to reach it limit (due to being an open baffle). Edited January 31, 2019 by davewantsmoore 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Love the username, BTW. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundbyte Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, SPANDAU BALLET said: The Rotel is driving how big a sub for you?....Driver size? I am also curious what design it is if its a "DIY build"? Yes it is a DIY build, rough as the proverbial, open baffle, it works quite well I think, needs a DUST! It is a derivative of an H baffle which had issues, this mounting arrangement solved those issues, to my ears at least. The drivers are at present 2 X Acoustic Elegance TD15H - 4's, one driver per channel of the Rotel (miniDSP used for crossover) so stereo bass. More drivers coming, picking them up tomorrow all being well. Will try not having a baffle at all (eek) with the new drivers. 31 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said: Yes, but your subwoofer needs very little power to reach it limit (due to being an open baffle). The Rotel in my case, works. My power number (100W) was wrong, sorry, according the the user manual, 330W into 4 ohms, similar to the Playmaster you have. I still suggest that @SPANDAU BALLET uses what is at hand to determine if the amplifier is "good" enough to use in that system, if not move on then. +1 for the username. Edited January 31, 2019 by soundbyte 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPANDAU BALLET Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) My User Name :Hard-Core..............New Wave Romantic POP. SANCTIFY very Ghetto Edited January 31, 2019 by SPANDAU BALLET 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, SPANDAU BALLET said: The Rotel is driving how big a sub for you? Driver size and amplifier power have no fixed relationship ..... but in general bigger boxes need smaller amplifiers. 46 minutes ago, SPANDAU BALLET said: My User Name :Hard-Core..............New Wave Romantic POP. SANCTIFY very Ghetto I want some of what he's having, please!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A9X Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said: Driver size and amplifier power have no fixed relationship ..... but in general bigger boxes need smaller amplifiers. I was more thinking in terms of any EQ applied (more power reqd) and the smallish heatsinking if you're going to use it in anger. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, A9X said: I was more thinking in terms of any EQ applied (more power reqd) and the smallish heatsinking if you're going to use it in anger. Oh yeah.... don't get me wrong, I won't be at all at all surprised if the amp is not big enough.... but right now, we don't know by how much (or if at all). He might decide to put 20x cheap 10 inch woofers in a 3 cubic meter box or in an open baffle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushroom01 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 If box size isn't an issue. Build a Tuba HT from Bill Fitzmaurice. Small wattage required, HUGE output. Very Low distortion. IMO, Cheap to build. https://billfitzmaurice.info/THT.html I've built the Table Tuba (another option for you) which also is an amazing sub. 10" Dayton Reference HF sub driver used. I much preferred it over my sealed, 18" Dayton Audio Reference HO sub. Sold it & kept the Table Tuba! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wozza_Lee Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 If box size isn't an issue. Build a Tuba HT from Bill Fitzmaurice. Small wattage required, HUGE output. Very Low distortion. IMO, Cheap to build. https://billfitzmaurice.info/THT.html I've built the Table Tuba (another option for you) which also is an amazing sub. 10" Dayton Reference HF sub driver used. I much preferred it over my sealed, 18" Dayton Audio Reference HO sub. Sold it & kept the Table Tuba! At around 450 litres of enclosure space certainly cant be an issue hahah.Looks good though, i wish I didn't have the waf to consider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollowboy Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 What is your room, living situation etc? For example, do you own your house? In some situations, an infinitely large sub is possible. These don't need much power, and offer good bang for the buck. e.g. see Will Cowan's infinite baffle sub. http://www.cowanaudio.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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