What to do with old CDs?

[Silent Screamer]

36 minutes ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

Your rights are to play what's on the physical medium, or your legal backup of what's on the physical medium. If you broke it before backing up, your right is to play what's on the broken disc. Never mind.

 

It's the same as any other physical object. If I break a Wedgwood plate, I have exactly no right to send it back to Wedgwood and demand a replacement plate, even though I own the right to eat off the plate.

 

In this case, the digital download has an advantage. As I have a licence to play what's on the digital download, I can obtain a replacement copy if I lose the original somehow, as long as it is the same file.

Not sure I would agree that your legal rights would be to play what remains on the disk. When you bought the disk all the songs presumably worked. Then that is what you are licensed to play. Whether you can play those songs because the disk is scratched or the optics on the player wont read it, that's a different matter.

 

I see your point about the plate, but in the case of the plate, the value of the plate is in the plate itself. The value in the CD is in the content not the media. If the water pump in your car died should you have to replace the whole car? The media is but one component of value proposition in the purchase.

 

If you can just replace your download because it got corrupted or deleted, then why shouldn't you be able to likewise replace your media? (obviously with a charge involved) you are only recovering a single working copy of what you paid for.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Silent Screamer

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

30 minutes ago, Silent Screamer said:

Not sure I would agree that your legal rights would be to play what remains on the disk. When you bought the disk all the songs presumably worked. Then that is what you are licensed to play. Whether you can play those songs because the disk is scratched or the optics on the player wont read it, that's a different matter.

 

I see your point about the plate, but in the case of the plate, the value of the plate is in the plate itself. The value in the CD is in the content not the media. If the water pump in your car died should you have to replace the whole car? The media is but one component of value proposition in the purchase.

 

If you can just replace your download because it got corrupted or deleted, then why shouldn't you be able to likewise replace your media? (obviously with a charge involved) you are only recovering a single working copy of what you paid for.

The value of the CD is in the medium. I would have thought that much was clear from the content of the thread. The law (with a obvious change that you can make a copy, and some other amendments) is effectively the same as in the 1970s.

 

I can imagine the response if you had taken an LP back to a shop then because you had scratched it yourself...

[Silent Screamer]

8 minutes ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

The value of the CD is in the medium. I would have thought that much was clear from the content of the thread. The law (with a obvious change that you can make a copy, and some other amendments) is effectively the same as in the 1970s.

 

I can imagine the response if you had taken an LP back to a shop then because you had scratched it yourself...

So are you trying to tell me if you buy a $30 CD that more than half of that money goes into the CD?

The cost of producing the CD is insignificant compared to what you are paying for the licensing rights.

It might cost a lot more to produce an LP than a CD, but lets say it cost you $15 to replace the scratched record, that's better than paying $30.

Otherwise it disadvantages anyone buying physical media... You may as well buy the album as a download, excercise your rights to make a back up CD, so should the dog bump you on the way to the CD player you can always make another copy of the CD for a few cents.

Although as someone trying to get the best possible sound, I would rather pay more to get a proper pressed CD over burning a copy that might go bung and not read properly. We spend truck loads of money trying to read the disks as best we can.

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

14 minutes ago, Silent Screamer said:

So are you trying to tell me if you buy a $30 CD that more than half of that money goes into the CD?

The cost of producing the CD is insignificant compared to what you are paying for the licensing rights.

It might cost a lot more to produce an LP than a CD, but lets say it cost you $15 to replace the scratched record, that's better than paying $30.

Otherwise it disadvantages anyone buying physical media... You may as well buy the album as a download, excercise your rights to make a back up CD, so should the dog bump you on the way to the CD player you can always make another copy of the CD for a few cents.

Although as someone trying to get the best possible sound, I would rather pay more to get a proper pressed CD over burning a copy that might go bung and not read properly. We spend truck loads of money trying to read the disks as best we can.

I'm explaining the legal situation and trying to explain why it is (there is always a historical element). What it should be - that is something else and also worth discussing.

 

However, the discussion has mostly been about "what if I do this" and "what if I do that" for the most part.

 

Alternative models for distribution, that are in some ways fairer and in other ways not, are out there. You can't have everything (surprise!) but you can, for a lot of music, make different choices now.

 

I'm actually at the moment trying to recover the music off a CD-R legitimately bought by my mother and sent to us a few years ago - the disc is failing... so I get your point here. Just as you can buy a download to keep the dog at bay, you can also find all your lovely downloads turned into .ENCRYPTED files by a ransomware attack, including your online backups.

 

Nothing's perfect, I'm afraid.

[MarcAL]

6 hours ago, Silent Screamer said:

Umm what do I do with the dozen or so driver I already have under the bed?

Get a bigger bed or maybe a king size bunk.

[dcathro]

WOW!

 

21 pages of people arguing.  The OP left this thread on page 1. Maybe he has better things to do

[davewantsmoore]

4 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

I have wins 95 running on an old machine...would you like the original discs?   

They would be no use unless you removed Windows 95 from the machine you're running it on.

[davewantsmoore]

5 hours ago, Silent Screamer said:

Isn't it time the record companies caught up to the other industries that provide replacement media for a nominal fee.

Perhaps....  but how would they track that you already own a copy?

 

In the software license world (at least when thinking about "traditional boxed software") you have purchased a license agreement to use the software.    That is quite different from music.

5 hours ago, Silent Screamer said:

Now the physical media is damaged but your rights to play the music are still well and truly in tact.

You have no general "right to play the music".    You have the right to use the object you purchased (the CD you broke) in any way you want to, other than what is prohibited by Australian laws (eg. copyright).

5 hours ago, Silent Screamer said:

Why shouldn't you be able to buy another disk for the price of the media, some handling and shipping, instead of having to fork out the full amount again to get a second lot of licensing rights to play a single CD?

You need to forget this "license to play the music" stuff.  It doesn't work that way.   I tried to explain this to you earlier that music and software were very different, yet you don't listen.

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

25 minutes ago, dcathro said:

WOW!

 

21 pages of people arguing.  The OP left this thread on page 1. Maybe he has better things to do

Maybe the OP got the message at post number 10, which basically covers most of the other 20 pages of content?

[davewantsmoore]

4 hours ago, Silent Screamer said:

Not sure I would agree that your legal rights would be to play what remains on the disk. When you bought the disk all the songs presumably worked. Then that is what you are licensed to play.

You can use an object you poses however you want, except ways which are restricted under the law.    It's a simple as that.   It work just like the plate.

 

By purchasing a CD you do not "gain any specific rights" (or lose any, even though the text on the disc might say otherwise).

4 hours ago, Silent Screamer said:

If the water pump in your car died should you have to replace the whole car?

Yes, if that is how your car works   

4 hours ago, Silent Screamer said:

The media is but one component of value proposition in the purchase.

No.... it's the only value proposition.    It's all you get, the object.   You don't get "rights", or "license", or any of this other stuff you are talking about.

4 hours ago, Silent Screamer said:

then why shouldn't you be able to likewise replace your media?

You can.   Our laws allow you to possess a copy of the CD (even if the original CD is broken).

4 hours ago, Silent Screamer said:

(obviously with a charge involved) you are only recovering a single working copy of what you paid for.

It's up to the publishers.   There's nothing which precludes them doing this..... except that it would be very difficult (not cost effective) to work out if you really did own the original.    Then there is of course, their desire for you just to pay full price for a replacement.

[MarcAL]

On 01/01/2019 at 2:26 PM, Yngvi said:

 

 

If one was to purchase this chair would only one person be allowed to sit on it?

Heaven forbid if you ripped the fabric!

[ThirdDrawerDown]

On 05/01/2019 at 5:07 PM, Silent Screamer said:

So are you trying to tell me if you buy a $30 CD that more than half of that money goes into the CD?

The cost of producing the CD is insignificant compared to what you are paying for the licensing rights.

The consumer does not buy any licensing rights, and the cost of manufacturing a physical CD is about $1.50 max.

 

This is known as free market capitalism: a price is what the buyer is willing to pay. It doesn't matter if the seller is setting a margin of 10% above cost, 100% above cost, or 1000% above cost. They can do what they like when they set their price. You don't have to pay. Mind you, you can pay something outrageous and then grumble a lot about it.

 

Of course, CD pricing at $30 an item reeked of cartel or monopsony behaviour, because all the record companies were setting their prices at that $30 price point, but that's how it rolls. The consumer doesn't have to buy.

 

Which takes us back to the current situation of $1 CDs in Cash Converters and the Op Shops.  People aren't buying.

[Dean Gale]

Yes, it's a bit cliched, but we're doing a New Year clean-out and I'm just down from the shed looking at 5 large tubs of CD that never get used following these having been ripped to a NAS. I thought that I was keeping these as a back-up "just in case" but the move to on-line streaming has put that in question. I don't have the patience to photo all the covers then sell, putting them in the bin seems like a massive waste and options for donations seem limited here in Perth. What are y'all doing with old CD that have been ripped? 

My NAS drive self destructed and my USB hard drive got damaged in had to get a friend to kindly send me back the copy I sent her . I was nearly forced to re rip 2000 CD's .

[Dean Gale]

Well, the legal options. There's always the "fake a burglary and claim replacement value minus insurance excess". Not recommended due to the "be charged with faking a burglary" consequences.

There's probably a couple of insurance CEO'S Stereonet members you just alerted. They all get together to discuss bottom lines and how to avoid fraud . Pity hey Lol

[Audiofix]

I guess I'm missing the point but doesn't paying Tidal a monthly subscription allow me to legally play every piece of music ever made (well if its in Tidal's database at least) ?

 

22 pages in I guess someone else has asked this as well so apologies for that.

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

On 05/01/2019 at 5:07 PM, Silent Screamer said:

So are you trying to tell me if you buy a $30 CD that more than half of that money goes into the CD?

As with anything else, there's a lot more than the cost of the manufacture of the CD. The musicians, engineers, producer,etc, have to be paid something in some way. Studio time costs money, The record company has to make a profit (capitalism, remember?), so do the companies that press the CD, sell the jewel case or manufacture and print the cardboard equivalent, the company that makes the insert. There may be advertising involved. The distributor has be paid and make some money, so does the wholesaler, so does the retailer if the these are different.

[Guest Muon N']

3 hours ago, Audiofix said:

I guess I'm missing the point but doesn't paying Tidal a monthly subscription allow me to legally play every piece of music ever made (well if its in Tidal's database at least) ?

 

22 pages in I guess someone else has asked this as well so apologies for that.

What happens if Tidal was to fold, do you still have that music to play?

 

Edit: honest question as I don't do any of these things

Edited January 9, 2019 by Muon N'

[davewantsmoore]

4 hours ago, Audiofix said:

I guess I'm missing the point but doesn't paying Tidal a monthly subscription allow me to legally play every piece of music ever made (well if its in Tidal's database at least) ?

It allows you to play music through the Tidal apps.    It doesn't give you the right to store a copy of a CD.

 

For example, when you have a Tidal subscription that doesn't let you make copies of your friends CDs which happen to be available in the Tidal apps.

[Audiofix]

I suppose my point might have been along the lines of - the music industry is happy to license you their whole catalogue for a few dollars a month (cost price to Tidal) - so how much do they care what any of us do with our CDs for our personal use?

 

Nil.

 

Start copying them and turning it into a business and yeah sure they'll be after you eventually.

 

But who buys CDs anymore either way whether new or used, at a market for a few bucks or otherwise.

 

A quick google finds this - https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/us-recorded-music-industry-growth-slowed-in-h1-2018-with-a-dramatic-fall-in-cd-sales/

 

Physical media (inc records) now represents 10% only of music industry revenue.

 

I'm pretty sure they (the industry) has moved on and won't care too much where your CDs are or whether you ripped them as a back up and still happen to have that back up. I think they might care more about selling you a subscription to Tidal, Spotify etc though.

 

I would hang on to them though as I predict a boom in interest in old media of all kinds. Makes no sense but then neither does hipsters extolling the virtues of record sound quality while gouging their discs on some $99 POS from Big W....

 

[Silent Screamer]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed but the original poster hasn't made a comment since their original post...

So unless someone else is gaining some benefit from these 22 pages of circular conversation, it is really pointless debating it any further.

Since the OP only made one post it makes me think they are sitting back laughing their head off at the silly buggers that got baited into a discussion with no end.

So continue debating if you want, but I am sure there are other more worthwhile posts that need answers, that we aren't getting around to playing silly buggers here.

[TerryO]

7 hours ago, Audiofix said:

I suppose my point might have been along the lines of - the music industry is happy to license you their whole catalogue for a few dollars a month (cost price to Tidal) - so how much do they care what any of us do with our CDs for our personal use?

 

Nil.

 

The reason they can license large amounts of their catalogues, it isn't the industry's complete catalogues as there is plenty of music you can't find on Tidal, for a few dollars a month is they are selling it on line to vast numbers of individuals and there is basically no manufacturing, transport or bricks and mortar overheads from retailers who have to make margin on top.

Plus whether you use Tidal or not they get ongoing monthly subscription fees, which is I be for many just like Gym membership that most people who take it out never use more than once or twice. 

 

Do record company's care about copyright? Absolutely they do, as they always have, but the various online company's like Tidal, Spotify Etc mean that soon they won't have to worry about breaches of copyright because if you make something so cheap and convenient to use, as Tidal has,  then it's hardly worth flogging. I would bet Records company's can't wait for the day they can stop making Records and CD's because 99% of punters are only downloading music and paying them their monthly subscription.

 

cheers Terry

[djmt]

On ‎2‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 12:31 AM, PicoWattson said:

For a start you could reduce your 5 large tubs to 1 large tub and 1 small tub by placing all of the jewel cases in your recycle bin, and placing all of the CDs and associated artwork into a polyethylene gatefold sleeve. Jewel cases are so very last century.

Thank you Mr. Wattson for solving the case.

[crisis]

11 hours ago, Audiofix said:

But who buys CDs anymore either way whether new or used, at a market for a few bucks or otherwise.

 

Me. Lots.

 

Quote

A quick google finds this - https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/us-recorded-music-industry-growth-slowed-in-h1-2018-with-a-dramatic-fall-in-cd-sales/

My buying preferences are immune to what others are buying. None of that has made any of my CDs or the ones I am buying sound worse.

 

Quote

Physical media (inc records) now represents 10% only of music industry revenue.

The irrelevance to me cannot be measured with current technology.

 

Quote

 

I would hang on to them though as I predict a boom in interest in old media of all kinds. Makes no sense but then neither does hipsters extolling the virtues of record sound quality while gouging their discs on some $99 POS from Big W....

 

yup!

Edited January 10, 2019 by crisis

[warweary]

Donate them to your local library.  My library still has thousands of cds.

[a_zee]

Take a photo of the spines of them so people have an idea of what's on offer and list em up for sale on here. Some people (including myself) would be very interested depending on the recording/mastering especially if it's an early pressing!