Projector And Screen Advice For A Complete Newbie

[t10001503559603]

Hi all.

When I return to my home in Sydney early next year I'm giving serious thought to installing a projector and screen in my HT room. I have NEVER owned a projector and have literally no experience with them other than seeing a few around hifi stores and other stores like Harvey Norman and Videopro.

I THINK my seating distance to my wall where my existing panel is going to be mounted would be around 3.9 metres. Ideally, something along the lines of a 100-120inch would be nice. I've checked the viewing distance calculations and 120inch screen suggests a viewing distance of 4.08 metres.. close enough. If the viewing distance is less (it could be more like 3.5-3.7m) I might have to opt for 100inch.

The big question I have is what is the projector that offers the best bang for buck picture quality at around the $3.5k mark ? I hear good things about JVC and Panasonic... but there are SOO many models out there it's crazy. What I DO want is a projector that offers the best, brightest whites I can get.. to me many of the projector setups I see look really washed out.. the whites are greyish and the blacks are fairly murky. I'd really like something that gets close to the pristine whites of a good LCD panel like my existing Sony and Samsung LCD sets. 3D is essential too. Just as importantly, I can't handle "flicker" in a picture at all.. my eyes are very sensitive even to plasma flicker ( I can spot a Pana ST/VT plasma from thirty panels in a store just by the flicker). Sometimes when I go to the cinema I can detect flicker too. So what projector should I be looking for ?

In terms of screen, I would assume a screen is just standard stuff and the quality in the mid-range price bracket is much of a muchness ?

Lastly, my receiver only has a single HDMI output. Can I run a single HDMI out from my receiver, through a switcher and then to the LCD and projector ? Would there be any degredation in quality at all ?

Cheers

1000

[bbar]

If u want the best 2D and blacks in that price range then the JVC is it. If your priority is 3D then would go the BenQ 7000. If you want the best all rounder ( 2D/3D) then would go the Sony HW50; but it is above your price range or would consider the Epson 9100.

So Best Blacks = JVC>HW50>Epson 9100 >DLP, ala BenQ

Least Jitter = DLP ( BenQ) > 9100 > HW50 > JVC

Brightest and best 3D > DLP ( Benq) > HW50 > Epson 9100 > JVC

So to me with criteria of minimal/no jitter, 3D, and good blacks I would go HW50 followed by the Epson recognising that the Epson is within budget and the Sony is not!

Also, if u chose a DLP then would need to ensure you are not sensitive to the rainbow effects of single chip DLP's.

Re screen size, would go 120" even if sitting at 3.6M as this is the recommended distance by THX and is like sitting little back of middle in theatre.

single hdmi out to switcher is fine

Edited December 30, 2012 by bbar

[UKDeano]

West coast hifi in WA have the 9100w priced at $3499 (it is white in the details, not black as in the picture). Not sure what the shipping charges are.

[bbar]

West coast hifi in WA have the 9100w priced at $3499 (it is white in the details, not black as in the picture). Not sure what the shipping charges are.

There is also GB's going on DTVforum right now with great pricing for the Epson, BenQ and JVC's

Edited December 30, 2012 by bbar

[agelessgoodguy]

If u want the best 2D and blacks in that price range then the JVC is it. If your priority is 3D then would go the BenQ 7000. If you want the best all rounder ( 2D/3D) then would go the Sony HW50; but it is above your price range or would consider the Epson 9100.

Re screen size, would go 120" even if sitting at 3.6M as this is the recommended distance by THX and is like sitting little back of middle in theatre.

single hdmi out to switcher is fine

Second Bbar's advice and add that you should visit as many different HT stores with PJ rooms as you can, to see the different model mentioned at work and with 3D media being played too & lastly read up on the manufacturers specs and prices to familarise yourself with the jargon used by each.

You may note that several forum PJ discounted buys are possible too.

Good luck, you'll never forget the first screening of your home PJ guaranteed.

[betty boop]

If u want the best 2D and blacks in that price range then the JVC is it. If your priority is 3D then would go the BenQ 7000. If you want the best all rounder ( 2D/3D) then would go the Sony HW50; but it is above your price range or would consider the Epson 9100.

So Best Blacks = JVC>HW50>Epson 9100 >DLP, ala BenQ

Least Jitter = DLP ( BenQ) > 9100 > HW50 > JVC

Brightest and best 3D > DLP ( Benq) > HW50 > Epson 9100 > JVC

So to me with criteria of minimal/no jitter, 3D, and good blacks I would go HW50 followed by the Epson recognising that the Epson is within budget and the Sony is not!

Also, if u chose a DLP then would need to ensure you are not sensitive to the rainbow effects of single chip DLP's.

Re screen size, would go 120" even if sitting at 3.6M as this is the recommended distance by THX and is like sitting little back of middle in theatre.

single hdmi out to switcher is fine

good advice there, worth having a flick through the shoot out over at avs. for best blacks jvc indeed. sony and epson are best all rounders still for 2D and 3D. the benq a great choice too as often quite cheaply available and king of 3D. If 3D is essential and flicker a concern zombies post ive linked to here ranks them pretty well :

"Flicker - highly subjective, but I am really sensitive to this. Any 3D DLP > Epson 5020 > HW50 ~ HW30 > JVC. The Epson is quite good, definitely better than the Sony and certainly vs. the JVC. I have to see how close it is to the DLP in a direct A/B. "

good advice from ageless too, definitely try to check out to experince your self get to see what these great PJs all about

[SLE3551503562118]

Whats the full dimension's of the room? What do you normally watch in the HT room?

[t10001503559603]

It's not really 3D flicker that bothers me, it's flicker in general. I had a VT50 briefly and the plasma flicker in 2D destroyed the experience for me.. to me it was like looking at an old 50hz CRT with interlaced content.

To be completely honest, the 2D is far more important than the 3D. If the 3D is merely adequate I'd be more than happy, the priority is beautiful, rich "poppy" 2D. If i could get anything that came close to the PQ on my ES8000 or my HX825 LED sets I'd be a happy man.

What is the real difference between LCD and DLP ? I've read some of the pros and cons of each and the only issues I can come up with is that the DLPs have something called the "rainbow" effect and the LCDs suffer from "screen door effect". Think I need to see some of these in action so I can tell what the heck these things mean !

1000

[betty boop]

best to see for yourself then can come to own conclusions and get a real feel for these options. re dlp and the rainbow effect is really only a problem for some. and as far as screen door thats a thing of the past I think with 720p projectors and before. you might see the individual pixels but will need to be 1-1.5 x screen heights as viewing distance to notice which is very close ! again something you can check out when see these in person

[t10001503559603]

I gotta say, after chasing big-screen flat panels for the last 5 years (and now realising that flat panel big screen of good quality is a pipe-dream atm) I am VERY excited at the prospect of a 110 -130inch screen in my living room. To think I was considering dropping $9k on a 75" LED set now seems pretty stupid when I can get 130inch for 1/2 the price or so.

Are there screens that can slip down from the ceiling so i can still have my flat panel wallmounted and sitting behind it for regular TV, gaming etc ? Are the screens pretty weighty or do they blow around a bit if a draft comes through ?

Roll on April when I get back home and get started !!! First movie on whatever I end up with will be Skyfall on Bluray.

1000

[bbar]

I gotta say, after chasing big-screen flat panels for the last 5 years (and now realising that flat panel big screen of good quality is a pipe-dream atm) I am VERY excited at the prospect of a 110 -130inch screen in my living room. To think I was considering dropping $9k on a 75" LED set now seems pretty stupid when I can get 130inch for 1/2 the price or so.

Are there screens that can slip down from the ceiling so i can still have my flat panel wallmounted and sitting behind it for regular TV, gaming etc ? Are the screens pretty weighty or do they blow around a bit if a draft comes through ?

Roll on April when I get back home and get started !!! First movie on whatever I end up with will be Skyfall on Bluray.

1000

Yes roll down can easily be had.

If 2D is the priority and so is PQ and blacks then would recommend you also view the JVC.

In 2D the view is JVC > Sony HW50 > Epson 9100 > Benq 7000.

You really should try and view them all before making a decision as mentioned above.

[betty boop]

I gotta say, after chasing big-screen flat panels for the last 5 years (and now realising that flat panel big screen of good quality is a pipe-dream atm) I am VERY excited at the prospect of a 110 -130inch screen in my living room. To think I was considering dropping $9k on a 75" LED set now seems pretty stupid when I can get 130inch for 1/2 the price or so.

Are there screens that can slip down from the ceiling so i can still have my flat panel wallmounted and sitting behind it for regular TV, gaming etc ? Are the screens pretty weighty or do they blow around a bit if a draft comes through ?

Roll on April when I get back home and get started !!! First movie on whatever I end up with will be Skyfall on Bluray.

1000

is exactly what am doing with flat panel for day time viewing or with lights on windows / curtains open etc. and a drop down screen from the ceiling that comes down infront of the plasma for when want to watch the pj. big screen flat panels on other hand are very expensive big bulky things that will take over your room also when going big in these panels as most are LED backed lcd the PQ leaves a lot to be desired.

the screens themselves have a weighty bar at the bottom so dont just blow around with the slightest draft. that said you dont really want a big fan or aircon vent blowing right at them.

keep in mind for a projector setup especially during the day or if theres adjoining rooms then will need to consider light control otherwise only going to compromise the expereince .

but yeah get out and check out all the options. best way to decide

[t10001503559603]

If u want the best 2D and blacks in that price range then the JVC is it. If your priority is 3D then would go the BenQ 7000. If you want the best all rounder ( 2D/3D) then would go the Sony HW50; but it is above your price range or would consider the Epson 9100.

So Best Blacks = JVC>HW50>Epson 9100 >DLP, ala BenQ

Least Jitter = DLP ( BenQ) > 9100 > HW50 > JVC

Brightest and best 3D > DLP ( Benq) > HW50 > Epson 9100 > JVC

So to me with criteria of minimal/no jitter, 3D, and good blacks I would go HW50 followed by the Epson recognising that the Epson is within budget and the Sony is not!

Also, if u chose a DLP then would need to ensure you are not sensitive to the rainbow effects of single chip DLP's.

Re screen size, would go 120" even if sitting at 3.6M as this is the recommended distance by THX and is like sitting little back of middle in theatre.

single hdmi out to switcher is fine

When you say that the JVC is the worst for JITTER, is that simply the good old 24fps film jitter, or is that an overall "flicker" in the image ? Jitter I can cope with.. I own a Kuro plasma !! Flicker, on the other hand is the one issue I can't tolerate.

[t10001503559603]

Had a chance to check my room dimensions back to the house plans.

My HT area is 3.77m to the wall where my panel lives. Taking into account a lounge, im likely going to be 3.5m from the screen. There is a small entry area behind it that is 1.59m which I presume is where the projector will mount somewhere. The room is 4.28m wide.

Could I push 130inch ? Or would 100-120 be a more comfortable proposition ?

1000

[Quark]

Will your L&R speakers fit under the screen, or on either side? Speakers generally sound better if not jammed in corners, although some are specifically designed for it.

A 130" 16:9 screen has a viewable area of ~2.88m. That leaves ~445mm on each side for your speakers - you might want to listen to them set up like that. You may find it easier to decide if you project onto a wall for a week or two before you settle on screen size.

[t10001503559603]

Sound advice, thanks

[Highjinx]

Had a chance to check my room dimensions back to the house plans.

My HT area is 3.77m to the wall where my panel lives. Taking into account a lounge, im likely going to be 3.5m from the screen. There is a small entry area behind it that is 1.59m which I presume is where the projector will mount somewhere. The room is 4.28m wide.

Could I push 130inch ? Or would 100-120 be a more comfortable proposition ?

1000

With BluRay 1920 x 1080 with 20/20 vision the best image quality will be seen from a ratio of approx 1.87 screen widths away. This has to do with the data density addressed to the pixels.

Take some excellent material and some average material to your local projector seller, keeping the best image ratio in mind, view. However move forward and decide the best compromise if image size is the priority.

A compromise needs to be found(a personal one) between best image quality and size.

Many here sit at 1 screen width away, personally if I do that I find the image is unacceptable. The image data per unit area is set, enlarging the image simply spreads this imformation over a larger area. It's like adding water to a liter of paint to make it go further......it just thins it out and one will see throught the paint to the plaster.....in video land..one will see artifacts, that will be unseen if sitting at the proper ratio for the data density.

But only you can decide....demo, test...demo..test!

[bbar]

Scree size

Will your L&R speakers fit under the screen, or on either side? Speakers generally sound better if not jammed in corners, although some are specifically designed for it.

A 130" 16:9 screen has a viewable area of ~2.88m. That leaves ~445mm on each side for your speakers - you might want to listen to them set up like that. You may find it easier to decide if you project onto a wall for a week or two before you settle on screen size.

+1

and screen size is a personal preference thing. Some can sit at 2 times screen height whilst others need to be back closer to 3 times. So 130" 16:9 screen is 162cm tall . with 3.5M seating a 130" would be 2.16 seating to height ratio and 100" would be 2.8 ratio. So you need to pick which is best for you remembering that scope titles will have 24% less height.

Also, one needs to consider brightness when choosing the combination of screen size, screen gain , and PJ.

Best to have an environment that delivers 26-30FL when new allowing lamp to age until end-of-life giving 13 or so FL at EOL.

Budget is of course a major consideration as one can pick a light cannon PJ like the BenQ or an Epson 9100 and go with a cheaper import 1.0 gain screen and still have enough brightness for a 130" screen. If however, one chooses a dimmer (less lumens) PJ then one would need to get a higher gain screen which can cost a lot more money.

Brightness is not just the raw lumens but what is the Lumens output in a 'best' mode and what is the brightness at the proposed mount location. The farther forward the brighter the output. Some PJ's are bright at the forward mount location but lose 40% of brightness at the rear. Others may be less bright, say JVC, but only lose 20% brightness from forward mounting at the rear of its zooming capability.

So, if you have picked a PJ you want then you need to confirm screen size it can handle at the proposed mounting position based on budget. If budget not major consideration then can import a 1.3 - 2.4 gain screen or use something like an Oztheatre screen at 1.26 gain if that gain is good enough. This option is considerably more expensive than a standard Asian unity gain screen .

[bbar]

With BluRay 1920 x 1080 with 20/20 vision the best image quality will be seen from a ratio of approx 1.87 screen widths away. This has to do with the data density addressed to the pixels.

Take some excellent material and some average material to your local projector seller, keeping the best image ratio in mind, view. However move forward and decide the best compromise if image size is the priority.

A compromise needs to be found(a personal one) between best image quality and size.

Many here sit at 1 screen width away, personally if I do that I find the image is unacceptable. The image data per unit area is set, enlarging the image simply spreads this imformation over a larger area. It's like adding water to a liter of paint to make it go further......it just thins it out and one will see throught the paint to the plaster.....in video land..one will see artifacts, that will be unseen if sitting at the proper ratio for the data density.

But only you can decide....demo, test...demo..test!

Have issue with 1.87 screen widths away as being best though it is a good one for a 4:3 AR. Not sure why u think it provides the best PQ. It is the furthest away to be able to resolve 1920/1080 but picture does not get worse as you move closer until you get uncomfortable or start to see pixel structures which is not until you get a lot closer.

Basically 1.87 screen widths is 29.9 degree viewing angle which is the minimum for immersion and minimum recommended by bodies such as THX, SMPTE...ect.

50 degree viewing angle is about centre theatre and is a good place for many.

Personally I like about the 46-47 degree mark for scope and about 40 degrees for 16:9. THX recommendation for 16:9 is 40 degrees and SMPTE and Fox studios sweet spot for scope is the 45 degree mark.

So that makes it 1.18 times for scope images. If you like that width then you can maintain for 16:9 encodes also.

To put that in perspective you would be sitting at around 3.4M with a 130" 16:9 screen or a 123" scope screen.

[betty boop]

seems rather close for 130" screen to me. I would be concerned audio wise as would pretty much have back to the wall which creates all sorts of issues not only with bass but also with reflections on the top end. but then again maybe all thats not such a concern for you ? like quark has suggested if can project on wall try it wiht a mix of material like to watch

[Highjinx]

Have issue with 1.87 screen widths away as being best though it is a good one for a 4:3 AR. Not sure why u think it provides the best PQ. It is the furthest away to be able to resolve 1920/1080 but picture does not get worse as you move closer until you get uncomfortable or start to see pixel structures which is not until you get a lot closer.

Basically 1.87 screen widths is 29.9 degree viewing angle which is the minimum for immersion and minimum recommended by bodies such as THX, SMPTE...ect.

50 degree viewing angle is about centre theatre and is a good place for many.

Personally I like about the 46-47 degree mark for scope and about 40 degrees for 16:9. THX recommendation for 16:9 is 40 degrees and SMPTE and Fox studios sweet spot for scope is the 45 degree mark.

So that makes it 1.18 times for scope images. If you like that width then you can maintain for 16:9 encodes also.

To put that in perspective you would be sitting at around 3.4M with a 130" 16:9 screen or a 123" scope screen.

The average (20/20)human eye needs between 55-60 pixels per degree worth of image data to create a cohesive image, NHK research shows many eyes (20/10) need 312 to 156 pixels per degree worth of data. During the 35mm to 2K marketing push there was the usual marketing speil that 46.5 degrees or 44 pixels per degree was enough, this proved to be not quite sufficient, borderline acceptable yes with DCi Streams but to truely replace 35mm no....so the 4K development was on. Film makers are capturing using 4k and 6k now?

Commercial 2k(2048 x 1080/815) and 4K(4096 x 2060/1545) are DCi based with 6x the bitrate of BluRay......applying 46.5 degrees to Bluray(1920 x 1080) is stretching its capability too far(IMO) (with 20/20 vision no....ok with 20/30 however)

BlueRay 1920 x 1080/815

46.5 Degrees = 44 pixels per degree = 1.24 screen widths

35 Degrees = 55 pixels per degree = 1.63 screen widths

12.3 Degrees = 156 pixels per degree = 2.85 screen widths

Personally I prefer 29 degrees with BluRay(66 pixels per degree) or 1.9 screen widths........but at times too small so I also view at 34 degrees(56 pixels per degree) or 1.63 screen witdhs approx if the material is excellent.

Was watching Out of Africa the other day(the first encode not the best) started out at 34 degrees......but soon switched to the 29 degree screen as the PQ was sketchy.

But as you say it's such a personal distance, with the individuals priorities taking precedence.

[Highjinx]

Might find this interesting:

A bit O' marketing but.........:http://nofilmschool.com/2012/11/jim-jannard-red-hat-tip-sony-1080p-2k-scam-price-reductions-tonight/

[oztheatre]

The average (20/20)human eye needs between 55-60 pixels per degree worth of image data to create a cohesive image, NHK research shows many eyes (20/10) need 312 to 156 pixels per degree worth of data. During the 35mm to 2K marketing push there was the usual marketing speil that 46.5 degrees or 44 pixels per degree was enough, this proved to be not quite sufficient, borderline acceptable yes with DCi Streams but to truely replace 35mm no....so the 4K development was on. Film makers are capturing using 4k and 6k now?

Commercial 2k(2048 x 1080/815) and 4K(4096 x 2060/1545) are DCi based with 6x the bitrate of BluRay......applying 46.5 degrees to Bluray(1920 x 1080) is stretching its capability too far(IMO) (with 20/20 vision no....ok with 20/30 however)

BlueRay 1920 x 1080/815

46.5 Degrees = 44 pixels per degree = 1.24 screen widths

35 Degrees = 55 pixels per degree = 1.63 screen widths

12.3 Degrees = 156 pixels per degree = 2.85 screen widths

Personally I prefer 29 degrees with BluRay(66 pixels per degree) or 1.9 screen widths........but at times too small so I also view at 34 degrees(56 pixels per degree) or 1.63 screen witdhs approx if the material is excellent.

Was watching Out of Africa the other day(the first encode not the best) started out at 34 degrees......but soon switched to the 29 degree screen as the PQ was sketchy.

But as you say it's such a personal distance, with the individuals priorities taking precedence.

I wonder how much those distances and numbers change for 4K?

[Highjinx]

I wonder how much those distances and numbers change for 4K?

Damn good thought!...4k source..it's just round the corner!

BlueRay 3840 x 2160/1630

87 Degrees = 44 pixels per degree = 0.53 screen widths

58 Degrees = 55 pixels per degree = 0.73 screen widths

24 Degrees = 156 pixels per degree = 2.27 screen widths

Some of us are going to be salavating.......

[bbar]

The average (20/20)human eye needs between 55-60 pixels per degree worth of image data to create a cohesive image, NHK research shows many eyes (20/10) need 312 to 156 pixels per degree worth of data. During the 35mm to 2K marketing push there was the usual marketing speil that 46.5 degrees or 44 pixels per degree was enough, this proved to be not quite sufficient, borderline acceptable yes with DCi Streams but to truely replace 35mm no....so the 4K development was on. Film makers are capturing using 4k and 6k now?

Commercial 2k(2048 x 1080/815) and 4K(4096 x 2060/1545) are DCi based with 6x the bitrate of BluRay......applying 46.5 degrees to Bluray(1920 x 1080) is stretching its capability too far(IMO) (with 20/20 vision no....ok with 20/30 however)

BlueRay 1920 x 1080/815

46.5 Degrees = 44 pixels per degree = 1.24 screen widths

35 Degrees = 55 pixels per degree = 1.63 screen widths

12.3 Degrees = 156 pixels per degree = 2.85 screen widths

Personally I prefer 29 degrees with BluRay(66 pixels per degree) or 1.9 screen widths........but at times too small so I also view at 34 degrees(56 pixels per degree) or 1.63 screen witdhs approx if the material is excellent.

Was watching Out of Africa the other day(the first encode not the best) started out at 34 degrees......but soon switched to the 29 degree screen as the PQ was sketchy.

But as you say it's such a personal distance, with the individuals priorities taking precedence.

Not really following you as I think you have the wrong end of the stick.

Read this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimum_HDTV_viewing_distance#Visual_angle

My understanding is that the minimum angle is 31.2 degrees and one can increase the angle until one gets artifacts.

As it states in the thread THX recommend 40 degrees as the optimum based on 31.2 degree minimum to resolve and immersion. SMPTE and Fox studios are 44.6 and 45 degrees respectfully for scope so all in the same ballpark.