Humax Hdr-7500T - Very Nice Ergonomics

[prl]

<OT> Magic TV does [resume recordings after a power outage]. It can do this because it uses a more sophisticated way than described.

So does Beyonwiz, as long as the capacitor in the front panel can keep the front panel clock running (a couple of hours). I know because I recently pulled the wrong power cord while both our Beyonwizes were recording. Both resumed recording when the power came back up.

[Tassie Devil]

I'm also puzzled by your earlier remark about IceTV that "[you] do not bother with the commercial station series programs and that is the supposed value of ICE". I'm not sure why IceTV is supposed to be more or less useful depending on whether the broadcaster is commercial or a national broadcaster.

Also, if you don't bother with commercial stations, why do you care when 60 Minutes is broadcast?

Unfortunately, IceTV's claim that with it you'll "Never miss your favourite show again", is in my experience untrue. In fact, with program scheduling the way it is, I believe it cannot be true, no matter what they do.

In spite of all this, I'm a long-term IceTV subscriber, and I'm reasonably happy with the service they provide - enough so that I'm currently subscribed up to mid-2015.

OK I'll try to explain.

ABC & SBS do have series BUT they generally stick to recorded times, SBS better than the ABC. It is the Commercial stations that deliberately run overtime so padding is required, a problem ICE does not really give any advantage with. And it is no real bother to me to study out the weekly programs in the Sunday paper & manually set them.

The commercial stations run lots of series so ICE could be helpful there - hence my comment. Yes, we look at 60 mins, Today Tonight and Sunday but that really is the extent of our Commercial station listening. I hope this does not sound snobbish - it is just the programs do not appeal. And I should add the ABC is becoming increasingly bad. Our pet hate is programs with canned laughter. But that is OK, no one is forcing us to look and obviously others enjoy them.

My comment about 60 mins and ICE was that when WIN shifted it later because of sport, ICE would not have helped.

So, if others see a benefit with ICE then fine. I personally do not so will not be paying any $99 sub. If they genuinely tracked programs to eliminate padding then count me in.

We all have different tastes and priorities - good thing. Life would be totally boring otherwise.

John

[prl]

... I personally do not so will not be paying any $99 sub. If they genuinely tracked programs to eliminate padding then count me in.

...

The actual cost of IceTV can be less than $99/year if you take advantage of their discount subscription offers. I've bought a total of 7 annual IceTV subscriptions. I paid $99 for only one of them; 5 of the remaining cost $49, and one cost $44, averaging~$55.50. That's the main reason why I keep paid out a few years ahead, to try to make sure I'm not in a situation where I'm likely to have to pay full price.

As far as I know, no-one provides a service that reliably tracks actual broadcast times for recordings. For that there is padding.

And as I said before, accurate broadcast time tracking does not prevent you missing out on parts of programs. here's a constructed example:

Scheduled times:

ABC1 20:30-21:30

Nine 20:30-21:00

SBS1 21:00-21:30

Actual broadcast times:

ABC1 20:32-21:35

Nine 20:35-21:10

SBS1 21:02-21:33

On a dual tuner PVR, you're bound to lose part of either the Nine or the SBS1 show. No matter whether your recorder has access to actual broadcast times or not, and whether you have padding or not.

[pgdownload]

Yes, we look at 60 mins, Today Tonight and Sunday. I hope this does not sound snobbish

You're the first person I've heard worry that watching Today Tonight might be construed as snobbish

Seems better to check with the paper each week and manually set it than rely on ICE to do that, something I suspect would not happen.

ICETV effectively read the newspaper every day and update their guide to match. If the TV networks make a change to their schedule and its in the newspaper for you to read then it will be updated in ICE (and on your PC). They'll also often catch unpublished events as they'll note an ad or on TV announcement about a change.

No matter whether your recorder has access to actual broadcast times or not, and whether you have padding or not.

I suppose that once you recognise that the question becomes do you use an automated service like ICETV that will randomly pick what gets recorded, or do you remain manual and decide which of the shows you want to make a priority.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Edited December 6, 2012 by pgdownload

[Tassie Devil]

You're the first person I've heard worry that watching Today Tonight might be construed as snobbish

Peter Gillespie

LOL

Just shows how something can be so easily misconstrued, although probably deliberately by you Peter

Of course, for the benefit of anyone mystified by all this, what I meant was that choosing not to look at their soapies, the "talent" quests & all the other stuff on Commercial TV could be interpreted as being snobbish. If it is, too bad, we are unlikely to change our wicked ways! [Although we do look at "Dancing With The Stars" - just shows there is no accounting for tastes ]

John

John

[prl]

One of the things that helps hide variations in the actual broadcast times on the ABC and SBS is that they still retain non-program material (like news updates and program promos) between shows. That means that while programs often start after their scheduled start time, they also often finish before their scheduled end time.

On commercial networks, especially in prime time, shows typically run back-to-back with very little material, if any, between the end of one and the start of another. This, along with not running to schedule, are typical techniques to reduce the attractiveness of switching to another channel at the end of a program. They also make reliable recording more difficult, which I'm sure troubles the network management greatly.

[pgdownload]

They also make reliable recording more difficult, which I'm sure troubles the network management greatly.

Actually, I suspect it is beginning to. Read an article in The Age today that noted up to a third of a shows ratings now come from people that watch a show in the week following its broadcast (Homeland was the example given). The same article also provided the interesting fact that skipping the ads is noted and so if if a person ends up only watching 45 minutes of an hour long broadcast they are counted as 0.75 of a viewer for ratings purposes. I'm wondering when the people paying to place ads in these shows will figure out that 0.75 of a viewer is actually 0.00 of a viewer as far as they are concerned. However, until then, it makes sense that the networks are at least not actively trying to confound recording devices (of course general incompetence can't be ruled out)

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[Tassie Devil]

Actually, I suspect it is beginning to. Read an article in The Age today that noted up to a third of a shows ratings now come from people that watch a show in the week following its broadcast (Homeland was the example given). The same article also provided the interesting fact that skipping the ads is noted and so if if a person ends up only watching 45 minutes of an hour long broadcast they are counted as 0.75 of a viewer for ratings purposes. I'm wondering when the people paying to place ads in these shows will figure out that 0.75 of a viewer is actually 0.00 of a viewer as far as they are concerned. However, until then, it makes sense that the networks are at least not actively trying to confound recording devices (of course general incompetence can't be ruled out)

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Shades of Sony trying to stop copying with their "security" software which is an open challenge for the millions to conquer - and they soon do.

But I guess some of us are being rather duplicitous in not supporting the ads by skipping. Apologies to those affected but I'm afraid I'll not change my wicked ways.

But of course there is a penalty and the demise of Ch10 might be the result. Too bad. I would not miss it although my wife would grieve at no Dr Phil or Doctors. But then the remaining channels would most likely pick them up anyway. And yes, she skips the ads too We are a BAD bunch in this house.

John

[mwd]

Just to take the thread even more off topic according to "The Project" Ch 10 the most downloaded TV programme is Homeland. Wonder why? a) you get it one week in advance the picture quality even at the lower level is far superior to what Ch 10 put out c) no ads.

I admit to getting my TV series by other means Homeland is quite good but Last Resort which is nearly finished in the US but not started here is a bit unbelievable and hocus it should go down well here or not on Ch 10

Edited December 7, 2012 by mwd

[Paul55]

until then, it makes sense that the networks are at least not actively trying to confound recording devices (of course general incompetence can't be ruled out)

I think this is all part of their FreeView conspiracy. The FreeView EPG is supposed to adjust to capture adjusted broadcast times and is the only system the networks support. They tell you that if you buy a FreeView endorsed product, all your recording problems will disappear. Unfortunately for the poor saps that swallow the advertising, FreeView has maintained its near perfect record of failing to deliver on promised features.

It will only get worse - especially for non capital city viewers - as some stations (regional at this stage) seem to be pulling out the FreeView consortium. County buyers of FreeView endorsed products will be even more disadvantaged.

[prl]

In the example I posted above, it doesn't matter in the slightest what "exact recording time" technology is used, whether manual setting from perfect knowledge of actual broadcast times, IceTV being able to update timers to actual broadcast time on the fly or a working-as-advertised Freeview EPG, a conflict exists in the actual broadcast times when there is no conflict in the scheduled times.

There are really only two options - either forcing the networks to actually follow their published schedules or having enough tuners to do the job. Since the former is IMO highly unlikely to happen, I've opted for the latter (and padding, too, of course). I just wish all my tuners fed the same HDD.

As for whether the advent of multi-tuner recording will help convince the networks to change their ways on techniques to try to maintain live viewership, I really rather doubt it.

On (the other) Peter's comment about watching 0.75 of a program via a recording constituting 0.75 viewers for ratings purposes, surely the advertisers won't buy that?

[Tassie Devil]

There are really only two options - either forcing the networks to actually follow their published schedules or having enough tuners to do the job. Since the former is IMO highly unlikely to happen, I've opted for the latter (and padding, too, of course)

You echo what is done here - two MAGIC PVRs cover it all in the main system with a backup satellite PVR for ABC & SBS (not used much at the moment).

The Humax is set to record most programs + some of my wife's favourites in a second room. We use that system quite a lot in the summer where bright sunshine deters us from pulling down the shutters to sit in the dark and look at the projector until later in the evening. Spoiled for choice I know,

John

[prl]

Just back on IceTV price. IceTV currently has a lifetime* subscription for Humax for $99.

* Where "lifetime" means (item 40) "five years or less"

[pgdownload]

Just back on IceTV price. IceTV currently has a lifetime* subscription for Humax for $99. * Where "lifetime" means (item 40) "five years or less"

Wow. I lIke ICETV and they're generally pretty savy on consumer rights, but that's just really misleading. The ACCC has ruled time and again that you can't have three inch LIFETIME print, followed by small print disclaimers that directly contradict the perception of the headline.

I'd also question the PR value of having every single customer who bought you product ring up in 5 years asking where their LIFETIME subscription has gone?

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Edited December 9, 2012 by pgdownload

[pgdownload]

On (the other) Peter's comment about watching 0.75 of a program via a recording constituting 0.75 viewers for ratings purposes, surely the advertisers won't buy that?

That would be my thinking. My current theory is that there are a bunch of people employed to sell advertising and another bunch of people employed to buy advertising and that neither bunch is particular interested in drawing attention to the decline in advertisings bang for buck.

My other theory is that even today, less than 10% of watched TV in Australia is timeshifted. Assuming half of that is skipping the ads (a generous assumption) that's just 5% of the market. If I'm spending $100,000 a minute to reach the masses, I'm probably not all that fussed about missing 5% that are probably smart enough not to buy my product anyway..

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[Tassie Devil]

I'm probably not all that fussed about missing 5% that are probably smart enough not to buy my product anyway..

Regards

Peter Gillespie

LOL, nicely put Peter.

John

[prl]

... I'm probably not all that fussed about missing 5% that are probably smart enough not to buy my product anyway.. ...

Are the figures even accurate enough to differentiate 5%?

[pgdownload]

Are the figures even accurate enough to differentiate 5%?

Sorry. That should read 5.000%

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[jarynis]

I very recently purchased the Humax 7500T 1TB PVR from Ice-TV. I've only been using it for a couple of weeks, so I haven't done a whole lot on it yet. But I have to say that I'm impressed with what's happening so far. I haven't tried it for anything particularly tricky. Nothing to do with getting shows on to my PC. I'm just doing standard recording. But the reasons that I'm impressed...

I've purchased the $99 Ice-TV "lifetime" offer. I haven't had many problems with missing the start or finish of a show, but of course there is the odd problem. When I first installed the Humax I modified the start and end padding. Since setting up the Ice-TV option I haven't been able to find this again. Not sure if it's disappeared because of Ice-TV, or if I've just lost it. I haven't been able to find a way to change the padding on individual recordings, but again, so far this hasn't been a problem.

I like using the Ice-TV on my iPhone as I can browse the guide while watching TV, and without interrupting my viewing. The Ice-TV app also allows me to find new shows quickly, as well as view my scheduled recordings for the week. I find it very useful.

The twin-tuner only allows two recordings at one time. It does not allow for extra recordings through the same network (eg. Nine + GEM). However, I can record two shows, as well as view another show that is on the same network as one of the recordings.

The Humax is almost always in a state of Standby. It doesn't come out of Standby when there are scheduled recordings, but nevertheless it still makes those recordings. It was a bit worrying the first time, but sure enough, all of the required recordings were there. When in Standby there is a humble Orange glow around the Standby button. This becomes Blue when turned on, and then Red when turned on and a recording is occurring.

There is a small screen on the front panel of the Humax that displays a description of the show that is currently being watched, whether on Live TV (for which it shows the channel being viewed), or a recording (for which it shows the start of the Title, approx. 12 characters, plus the time stamp of that recording).

There is an icon in the top right corner of the screen that shows the amount of free space on the HDD.

As John said earlier, the unit is extremely quiet in all modes. I haven't noticed any fan noise at all.

The recordings are easy to access by pressing the Media button on the remote. They are arranged in folders for series recordings, or just as a file for one-off recordings. All recordings are given correct titles, as well as info about date, channel, time.

The guide itself (the Ice-TV version) is fine, without being anything special. It's pretty typical, and it's simple to program recordings from within the guide. Pressing the Yellow button on the remote then shows the upcoming scheduled recordings.

Pressing the info button on the remote on any show gives a quick summary of the show and is easy to read and understand.

The skip features are done nicely. Again, I set this up in my initial install, but can't find how to adjust it now, but from memory I set up a skip forward button for 30 seconds, and a skip backward button for 12 seconds. There are also fast forward and rewind buttons that go up in powers of 2 up to 32x and they work smoothly.

The remote itself is nice enough, although the most popular buttons (play, record, skip, etc.) are small. But after a bit of use they're easy to get used to. They sit right in the middle of the remote, so they always easy to find.

As I said, I've done nothing particularly fancy with the Humax, but it does the job of a PVR well at this stage. I also have a TiVo, which my wife uses, and I think the Humax does a very comparable job for what we use the units.