56 minutes ago, KRSDarwin said:

Lovely looking setup, interested to read a report on any sound differences. 
 

Did you perchance ever work as a lighthouseman?

lol no. I live near the sea and love all things to do with it. As a kid we used to have our school holidays on the York Peninsular at Port Vincent. I have great memories and went back last year to stay. I am not a collector of souvenirs or trinkets but saw the lighthouse and the little boat in a store there and bought them as a bit of a nostalgic memento.

Anyhow thanks. I'm very happy with the set up. First impression of the 300s over the 8s is that they seem to have another level of clarity and transparency. There is a better soundstage as well. Bass is even cleaner and/but more revealing of the source. Rather than adding bass to recordings that don't really have much you can really tell the difference between when they do. A bit of a double edged sword but I am always a pursuer of accuracy as much as I can get it.

 

And still more gear..

This time a REL  T7x sub. Ive only had subs on my HT system and they are mostly about making everything sound like an earthquake.

For my stereo music system I've always been worried I'd ruin the fast clean bass by adding a sub. I also thought my system provided enough bass. There is of course plenty of people with experience that would advise otherwise. After cleaning up the sound with Iso Gaias, cables and ultimately new speakers it was the obvious next, and I hope last, step.

I am a little constrained as far as ultimate placement goes and am not sure I followed the set up instructions completely, but even with a rudimentary bash at it, this is very good. Ive read and watched reviews extolling the improved sound stage along with the increase/improvement in bass.

I've moved the main speakers forward which I'm sure helps clean up the sound , and it definitely seems like that, but the sub has provided unexpected improvements. Yes the bass is far better. I progressively reduced the crossover frequency to a point where it sounds as dry and tight as before but there is a nice extension where needed. Kick drums and bass guitars are affected in a good way. In fact some bass guitar parts demonstrate a nice sustain of the string that I'm not sure I was aware of before.

Then there is piano. Not an instrument Id expect a sub to affect but something is definitely happening there. The tone of the piano cabinet, for want of a better description, seems to be evident. A fuller sound but not warm or cluttered. In fact the whole effect is a bit like that. The overall sound is more "full". Not a great audiophile cliche but all Ive got.

What is better is that I'm sure there will be hours and days of tweaking. And of course once I work out how to use my measuring mic I can see if what I think sounds good can be vindicated by measurements.

 

 

Edited October 16, 20241 yr by crisis

Good choice. Placement of the sub-woofer can help in reducing the bass build ups (2 or even 3 units can create further improvements). 
yes, the subs can definitely make the bass - lower midrange sound better. 
You will be enjoying your music much more when you finish dialling it all in. 

Oh and in the spirit of being late to the party I also played Tidal through my Prisma CD35 tonight. I'd had a Tidal free trial previously and I couldn't really hear a significant difference over Spotify. Nevertheless as plenty of you all are converts and extol its virtues I decided to give it another go. I guess the improved resolution of my upgraded system has allowed me to hear the difference. I will be cancelling my Spotify membership and continuing with Tidal. What more can be said?

2 minutes ago, crisis said:

What more can be said?

Now try Qobuz……… 

@crisis that last pic of the box has your address on it (I assume) so maybe delete that one.

System is looking great!

4 hours ago, Darryl said:

@crisis that last pic of the box has your address on it (I assume) so maybe delete that one.

System is looking great!

Thanks, good call. 👌

Well done Phil.  The room is looking good, and now sounding good.  The hours of tweaking can be a real PITA - good luck with it.  My 2 channel room is also the Home Theatre room and lounge room, which can be a real PITA to blend this all together, but I reckon I am close.

whens the second sub coming ?

5 hours ago, JkSpinner said:

Well done Phil.  The room is looking good, and now sounding good.  The hours of tweaking can be a real PITA - good luck with it.  My 2 channel room is also the Home Theatre room and lounge room, which can be a real PITA to blend this all together, but I reckon I am close.

whens the second sub coming ?

Thanks. I am going to say there will be no second sub. Lets see how that works out...😁

Well no second sub, for now, but.

An aspirational speaker brand for a long time and a second hand pair came up on the classifieds. Don't buy them don't buy them don't buy them bought them...

PMC Twenty5 23i.

I must say their reputation for precise imaging is currently alluding me. Ive been messing around all afternoon with positioning and have found  they actually sound best exactly where the Monitor Audios were previously however they image a lot better facing down the room as opposed to toed in.

Vocals seem a little bit floaty or perhaps wider in the center than the MAs and what I was accustomed to. 'The MAs  were more pin pointed and narrow in the center. Perhaps this is better but I'm not used to it yet. Overall clarity and definition is quite stunning though.

The Silver 300s have been "relegated"to my HT room which is now becoming a bit more serious than it used to be.

After being advised to check polarity 🤦‍♂️ The PMCs have come to life. And more! So much detail but with less harshness, which is not a word I would describe the Silver 300s with until I heard these. Bass is difficult to comprehend from such a small driver. Ive adjusted the REL down to 35hz.

In related news I said goodbye to my Silver 8s which became redundant given I have two systems and don't need three pairs of speakers. Fond memories and I set them up to demo to the nice guy who came around to buy them. I had a nostalgic listen and in honesty if things were different and I had to live with them for ever, I could happily do it. It was so nice to see them go to a fellow audio nut and someone who I  am sure is going to really enjoy them. 👋

Oh shut up! They're only speakers!

Edited June 28, 2025Jun 28 by crisis

So pretty in the afternoon sun.

I agonised over this purchase after reading and watching a few reviews. The first active speakers I heard were around 40 years ago. I don't remember the model but they were Meridian. Ive heard a few speakers in my life that left a lasting impression and these did. In fairness my experience at that time was limited and now its perhaps colored by nostalgia, but I was blown away. Active speakers had a place in my mind. My current amp is the Primare I35 which I pretty much thought would be it. Well, you know...

 

 

So I was really asking could a $3500 active amplifier kit surpass the $6000 Primare. 

The pros - Active amps are made specifically for the speakers. These are effectively bi amps as they are two 100 watt amps per side. One for HF and one for LF. They are placed after the crossovers so are only fed the frequencies they have to amplify and have pretty much 0 resistance to the drivers. This is all good.

 

 

So subjectively its a good thing even if they are cheaper amps. Of course they don't have to have elaborate cases ( and they accomplish that) nor remotes and other controls. They also ship lighter and smaller. They are of course built in England vs China for the Primare, so that would actually work against them as far as cost is concerned. 

 

 

I decided to phone Addicted to Audio, being one of Adelaide's few dealers and one that carries PMC. They weren't all that interested to be honest. After leaving a message, a day later received a call. I asked if it would be possible to come in and audition the active 23is. That, apparently, would be a bit "difficult". Why  was never explained however it seems they don't do difficult.. I was advised the Twenty5 series were being discontinued but they had the new Prodigys which sounded excellent. 

When I was asked what I was currently using I said the Primare amp which was very good. He asked why I wanted to change then..... Seriously.. This is audiophilia and they are a hifi shop.. 

I left the conversation very reluctant to deal with this company but they are the only option. 

 

 

 

So I obviously swallowed the medicine and took the plunge. 

 

 

Materially they don't exactly scream build quality. Not compared to my Chinese Primare equipment. 

 

 

 

 

 

There also doesn't seem to be a lot going on for a 200watt amplifier albeit D class. I was starting to doubt my wisdom. 

 

 

 

Installation was quite easy.

 

 

 

 

Out with the crossovers, which were not much less substantial than the amps..

 

 

 

 

And in we go.

So what was the result? Initially there appeared leaner bass. I'm not sure if "burn in" is really a thing for amplifiers and it seems neither is PMC. I also obviously had new cables in the form of 2.5 metre Nordost Blue Heaven RCAs which I similarly don't really think would "burn in". 

 

With albums I know well there seemed to be a bit more finely etched detail. It was subtle but I think noticeable. I tried the speakers without the REL sub and they really do play deep bass. Surprisingly from such a small driver. The Sub is really optional and only for specific deep notes. 

 

Was it worth it? Well, if I was going to stop here Id say very marginal. The Primare is more than good enough and the small increase in fine detail resolution is probably not worth the money. But! The plan is to try to take full advantage of these speakers and their active amps by upping the pre amp game. I am looking to buy a dedicated pre amp for around the same cost as the Primare. The theory is that this , hopefully, will exploit more of the potential of these quite wonderful speakers and their dedicated amps. 

Will it ever end! 

 

PS, having to bend down to switch on both speakers each time is an unforeseen PITA.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2025Aug 30 by crisis

Great write up and pics Phil, thanks.

 

It's a pity the modules don't have auto signal sensing to turn them on like a subwoofer does.

19 hours ago, Darryl said:

Great write up and pics Phil, thanks.

 

It's a pity the modules don't have auto signal sensing to turn them on like a subwoofer does.

Thanks. Yes I have been turning on the amp and CD and sitting down to silence before remembering to now turn on my SPEAKERS!. 🤦‍♂️ Ill get used to it. 😁

@crisisHI Phil,

There's a blog in 'What Hi Fi' about PMC 25.23i actives and more expensive ACT speakers..

The interested buyer comparing both speakers was adamant the biggest improvements came from upgrading the preamp for the PMC's.

Something from Macintosh, Audio Research, Accustic Arts or even Lumin P1 would be intriguing. Heaps of quality pre's in the classifieds.

 

Frank.

To review my new acquisition I decided to engage in a rambling diatribe regarding the history of my current set up. FF to the end if this is too much.

Seven and a half years ago I got myself back into a dedicated 2 channel system.

The system comprised a Primare CD22, Primare I32, Schitt Mani, later to be replaced with an Arcam rPhono, Rega 2 to be replaced with an SRM Arezzo and RB220 and Monitor Audio Silver 8 speakers.

 

 

 

I've spent the morning reading my blathering through this  post to get some perspective of where my system has come from and to.

 

From the outset I was extremely pleased with the system, it, providing a quality of sound I had not previously enjoyed. I doubt I ever honestly expected to never “upgrade” components but I was fairly satisfied with the speakers, amp and CD player.

Over the period of 3 or so years the SRM received a new arm and cartridge and the system received a new CD player.

 

After a hiatus from Stereonet for around 4 years I joined back in and was the victim of some serious bargain second hand offerings which I could not ignore. And alas my experimentation with some humble speaker jumpers and a runout sale of Nordost cables saw me seduced into throwing significant amounts of cash at cables…

Other, not to be refused sales, included the opportunity to pick up a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 300 7gs ex demos to replace the Silver 8s.

The Stereonet classified bargains, which relieved me of some of my retirement money, included a Chord Qutest, a REL TX7x and a Primare I35. All of this raised the performance of my system greatly and I was listening to old music as if it were new again. All, it would seem was as it should be.

 

Then through the classifieds came the temptation of a pair of PMC Twenty5 23i speakers. I tried to resist but they were at a price that was too good to refuse. Your Honour. This saw me move away from Monitor Audio, which had satisfied my requirements since the initial system. After a little self inflicted drama, the new speakers combined with the I35 took things to another level. I was and should have remained satisfied.

But!

 

Surfing the net I uncovered the existence of amplifiers that could be installed into the speakers resulting in active speakers. Had the cost been a few grand more I would (probably) have ignored them. They weren't a few grand more and despite not receiving the greatest (none) service from the Adelaide dealer took the plunge and bought and installed them. This was not a massive upgrade but more a tweak in various areas of reproduction. My concern that they may not provide significant improvement over the I35 was somewhat allayed but, could a dedicated pre amp further exploit these now quite impressive speakers?

 

My philosophy is pretty much amp first, source and then speakers. As I was now only using half of the I35 this was a bit of a waste of a great amp. So I decided to pursue some pre amp options.

And then the classifieds revealed an offering that became more seductive the more I investigated it.

Even second hand, this amp was the most expensive single component I would purchase for my system.

After several communications with the seller, while traveling in a car from Munich to Salzburg, I completed the transaction. Its good to have a back story to some things.

The Pass Labs XP-12 arrived carefully packaged from the seller last Friday and was installed, as you could imagine, post haste.

 

Its easy to get carried away with new kit and I decided to not post how “happy I was” with the amp before giving it some serious listening. If you can call two days serious listening I guess I can give a still preliminary observation.

 

Detail and resolution

There is not a quantum improvement in detail and resolution over the I35. That’s a credit to that amp. What there is, is, on well known demo track, a more metallic sound to cymbals. It is easier to hear the “tune “ in bass and distorted guitars. The overall sound is a little fuller but with no loss of detail a crispness. And I think this “fullness” is the aforementioned tune or timbre of the instruments which is given more of a chance to fill in the gaps. Things ring out without sounding mushy.

 

Dynamics

On several occasions I've sat back where the light and shade, loud and quieter passages, are rendered with more impact. Transition on piano from Forte to quieter passages is quite pronounced. Similarly acoustic guitar and brass.

 

HiFi subjectivity (wankery)

OK I may have wanked on in the previous section but despite the tunefulness, complex music, something like Tesseract, Altered States, Of Matter, is all clearly audible without collapsing into a mush of sound.

 

Some reviews of the XP-12 warned that it can reveal poorly recorded music. Yes it does but it also flatters it by doing all of the things previously mentioned. What it has done however , is reveal the difference between CD and records. Up until now the record system has been able to match the CD35 with Qutest DAC. The proof of the improvements in resolution is that the records now are, in some cases, noticeably not as clean and open sounding as CD. It’s a heads up about source I guess and a pat on the back to the CD35 combo. With the I35 everything sounded great but with the XP-12 and PMC actives, the CD35 has been given more opportunity to shine. Perhaps this is the winner in all of this.

 

Money well spent?

Well I could have been $12000 closer to retirement but I guess when I do, I can listen to this.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2025Sep 28 by crisis

I’ve enjoyed winding my way through your rambling journey. 
$12 k closer to retirement, mate that’s funny. 

1 hour ago, crisis said:

Well I could have been $12000 closer to retirement but I guess when I do, I can listen to this.

No point in stressing, I am retired and have now almost got used to my net worth fluctuating by seemingly random numbers weekly. My system is an absolute indulgence, but I retired just after our local HiFi dealer said I really don’t need to do anything else to enjoy what we have. 
Spend and be happy wherever it brings one joy, also I encourage anyone to retire from full time work as soon as it is possible to do so. 

26 minutes ago, Godot said:

 also I encourage anyone to retire from full time work as soon as it is possible to do so. 

Yes. I have a plan and its down to $$ due to my personal situation. The market has been kind and the end is now in sight. Fortunaltely I have a good job which I enjoy despite the various challenges and I work with some really good people. I don't want to retire to get away from my job. More to sit around on my lazy ass and do nothing. 😁

Love the minimalist look Phil, very handsome indeed. Are you using the sub at all?

3 hours ago, maximus said:

Love the minimalist look Phil, very handsome indeed. Are you using the sub at all?

Thanks. Yes the sub is crossed over around 35 - 40 hz. Hard to be exact with the REL. The PMCs do provide plenty of bass but the REL just finishes off the lower frequencies for certain music. 

I don’t use headphones. I have spent considerable time and some money on building my stereo system and enjoy immersing myself in that room.

I do have a home theater room which is actually the living room and I have been working on building that system up too. So when I watch TV its currently through my Monitor Audio Silver 300 7Gs with a matching center, a Monolith sub and some Bronze rears. I also have some Silver series Atmos speakers but need another amp to use them. It never ends…

 

 

 

What does this have to do with me not using, but obviously purchasing new headphones?

My son currently works shift work with some shift starting at 0400. Out of consideration for him I have been using headphones. A pair of old, somewhat battered, Audio Technica ATH M50 which replaced my original set of headphones, AKG K240s.

 

 

 

 

 

I have the obligatory Sony WH1000 Bluetooth noise canceling jobs that are very useful when flying but even for my limited use, I don’t think they cut it for ultimate sound quality.

So my headphone experience, over nearly 40 years,  is based on three samples along with a few in-ears. As with everything it is difficult, to impossible, to audition in Adelaide so I did the regulation google “best headphone”, “review XXXX” and a few YouTube reviews. People who actually know about headphones would have no doubt identified the Sennheiser HD600 and although, in headphone world, as I have come to understand, they are pretty much budget models, they appear to be reasonably well respected. A quick search on the web and they were “on sale” on Amazon for $299, half of their normal retail price. This seemed to be a good choice.

 

 

 

Except.

In my noob ignorance and haste to push the “buy it now” button I did not take note of the “open back” feature. The next day while continuing to read about my new purchase it became apparent that these may not have been the best choice for using and not disturbing sleeping sons.

You idiot.

Further investigation found the closed back 620S version, even cheaper at $250,  which would have been more suitable. I attempted to cancel the 600s but too late, although I was able to return them if unopened

Further reading and Youtubing lead me to “buying it now” for the second set of headphones in two days.

 

 

 

 

I continued searching reviews which was interesting and a little perplexing. The overall view was the closed back 620s were not as good as the 600s except in bass, where it seems they were also not good, but better than other similarly priced closed back headphones. 😐

I contemplated keeping both headphones given the combined price I paid was less that the price of one set but as I don’t use headphones, despite the 600s being reasonably well regarded, I really didn’t need them.

So all blather aside.

Last night I plugged the AT ATH M50s in for a final reference and then changed to the 620s. Well they are obviously a lot newer, a step up in price and overall much cleaner and clearer sounding. $250 well spent. The influencer comments about lack of bass leads me to believe these people listened predominately to R&B and rap music. No concern to me. I would love to crack the 600s open for a comparison but they need to be returned unopened for refund and I really don’t need them. (I keep telling myself that but they are still sitting on the kitchen bench to be returned to the Post Office tomorrow. Definitely)

So what was all that about? Well if you need some cheap headphones get on Amazon. The 600s have gone up a bit but I saw the Addicted to Audio still have them for $299. Or if you want closed backs Amazon at $250.

My headphone recommendation. But what would I know?

 

So post upgrade of amps I was thinking that the phono side of things has not kept up  with the CD side. My continually developing philosophy that the amp is the nexus of everything seems to be validated by the fact that the CD player improved with better amps. The phono side sounded like the amps had overtaken it however so I decided to have a look for an upgrade to the phono amp which was currently,  the reliable and quite excellent Arcam rPhono. I considered the Primare R35 and Chord Huei both of which were locally available to be auditioned, a first for a long time, and the Gold Note PH10. The Chord and Gold note came up on Stereonet classifieds but I was too late. Then an ad for an EAT E-Glo Petit Phono  showed up. I did a bit of reading and youtubing and this appeared to be quite well regarded. And it was going to save me a grand or more. It came with an upgraded power supply which sweetened the deal so, again, a deal too good to refuse.

 

 

Meanwhile in my daily scanning of the classifieds a Rega 8 came up. I had no intention of parting with the Arezzo which had been reliable and quite excellent. It also looks cool. I foolishly read a few reviews of the Rega and at the price, yeah, you know the story… So within a week there goes another significant change to the system.

I hooked up the Rega on Thursday afternoon but left the Arcam rPhono in place to evaluate the change in turntable only. Its difficult to rationalise how a piece of equipment that simply (?) spins the record around can make a significant difference. Of course read any marketing or listen to Roy or any manufacturer and they will tell you… The turntable came with a new arm and they are supposed to make a big difference too. Well they did.

 

The Arezzo was great and I still think a bargain but the Rega immediately produced more, deeper? bass. There was more tune to the bass guitars also. Tune might not be right word and, is frighteningly close to one of the HiFi reviewer taboo words “tunefullness”, which we must never utter. But there is more tune to bass guitars which was evident in my CD system post amp upgrade but lacking a little in the phono side of things. The metallic sound of cymbals was now there matching what the CD player was doing. So more detail but not brightness.

Nobody needs me to sing the praises of this turntable as it is widely reviewed by people who know better than me but it’s a keeper. Its still a far cry from any form of high end esoteria but so is all of my gear. And in that context it would take a significant bargain of a significantly more upmarket turntable to make me part with any more cash on this end of things.

 

 

Friday and in goes the EAT. Initially not as noticeable change but listening to the same ol test tracks little details popped out that I simply hadn't noticed before. More attack on notes, snare, plucked acoustic guitar strings.  Also more punch to bass and particularly kick drum. Overall more dynamic. On Sky 3 which is a staple reference I have used for over 20 years, I could hear the tremolo caused by the movement of fretting fingers on the electric guitar solo. Never noticed that before.

Virtually silent as far a surface noise. It was good before though.

 

Overall the experience with all the new bits is extremely satisfying and as I have pretty much changed everything over the past 12 - 18 months I think its time to sit back and revel in my happy place.

 

 

Oh and it’s the first time I've had tubes, or valves, since my Marshall and Mesa amps!

 

Oh and this. Although the Arezzo could do 45rpm it was the take off the platter and move the belts. I am catastrophically lazy and I had an aversion to touching the belts with filthy oily fingers so I avoided 45rpm. 

Almost worth the entry fee alone.