I would like to try that too, but the problem is that I want DSD, AND I want DSP to be applied to DSD. Only one way to do that, as far as i'm aware ... 

 

HQplayer will do DSP on DSD but you need an enormous amount of CPU power.

im glad i've given up on DSP with DSD

what ive learned from this whole thread is its making vinyl look easier and easier, and for digital, just throw a damn cd or sacd into a player and be done with it

what ive learned from this whole thread is its making vinyl look easier and easier, and for digital, just throw a damn cd or sacd into a player and be done with it

 

it's not that bad as long as you don't insist on DSP'd DSD.

Had the mouse noise before, and was driver/configuration issues.

 

Edit: was software issues anyhow.

Edited August 3, 20169 yr by Muon

just throw a damn cd or sacd into a player and be done with it

 

Sure, it IS that simple.   :-)      This thread is more about designing speakers with DSP crossovers

Sure, it IS that simple.   :-)      This thread is more about designing speakers with DSP crossovers

Silly me, i thought it was about Keiths system a bunch of pops from mouse and how cd sounded better anyways to his ears

Silly me

 

Sorry, I didn't mean it like that ..... just that he is using a computer to do the DSP .... and so if he weren't, then he could just use a CD player if he wanted like everyone else, and enjoy being free from the issues of making a DSP machine....  like drivers and interrupts, and worrying about high-speed noisy things.

Sorry, I didn't mean it like that ..... just that he is using a computer to do the DSP .... and so if he weren't, then he could just use a CD player if he wanted like everyone else, and enjoy being free from the issues of making a DSP machine....  like drivers and interrupts, and worrying about high-speed noisy things.

 

 @@davewantsmoore no need to apologise mate, i took no offense at all, and didnt think for  a minute you were having a go.

Edited August 3, 20169 yr by JohnA

HQplayer will do DSP on DSD but you need an enormous amount of CPU power.

 

Yup. I have a HQPlayer license. 

 

I have decided to go whole hog on DSD. I would hope that my i7-6700K would be enough to run it. It's the most powerful CPU I can fit without running into thermal issues and requiring active cooling (instead of passive). 

 

If it turns out that I need more power, I will simply move to a dual PC setup. 

 

what ive learned from this whole thread is its making vinyl look easier and easier, and for digital, just throw a damn cd or sacd into a player and be done with it

 

I thought long and hard about it, John. As you know, my previous setup DID include a turntable. But after thinking about my listening pattern over the past few years, I have concluded: 

 

1. I still believe that ultimately, vinyl sounds better.

2. However, all my music is on digital. Availability on vinyl is quite limited. 

3. I have always wanted DSP, but I have not believed (until now) that there is a high quality DSP solution. 

4. The components going into this new system are all very modern. I believe that there are probably better DSD DAC's out there than the Merging+ NADAC (e.g. DCS) but those are not available in multichannel. Or at least, if I wanted multichannel, I would have to spend an insane amount of money. 

5. PROVIDED I can get the whole thing to work, a DSD based DSP system with upsampling to DSD512, convolution on a high speed 64 bit machine, and using the DAC that mastering studios use to make DSD recordings ... should be the ultimate way to implement DSP. Theoretically anyway. 

 

As I have mentioned in this thread, I still have a few teething problems to overcome. 

You could still integrate analogue sources into that system with an ADC   

@@Keith_W - if you need to clean up a USB signal to your DAC from PC you could try the Uptone Audio Regen

 

Reviewed here; http://www.stereophile.com/content/uptone-audio-usb-regen#r2gUdK7v2oWvPVhp.97

 

I just received one from a friend to trial in my PC/Head-fi system in place of my optical cable. 

Thanks, but as mentioned - I will very soon have no need for USB. 

Lovely looking system Keith,  and wow very large cd collection. 

Looks, Keith, like it'll be a great journey. What was the reason that you decided to go for a full digital x/o rather than use Acourate to correct the overall frequency and phase response with the analogue x/o (and DEQX) in place? And what is the plan for use of the system with video sources (seeing the TV in the room)?

Thanks zydeco. Using a multichannel DAC with the PC sending 8 channels to it allows much finer tuning of the crossover as well as simplifying the system a great deal. On its own, Acourate can achieve plenty but it won't be able to do individual driver correction, nor can it match the timing of the drivers quite as well. 

 

Why Acourate and why multichannel? Well, no other solution allows you to perform convolution in DSD256, for 8 channels, and then perform DA conversion in native DSD256. I will be able to take a native DSD256 file and play it back without conversion to any other format. Nothing else will let me do it - not MiniDSP, nor DEQX. 

 

Right now it's one PC doing everything. I might change this in the future - one PC as a music server, second PC to do the convolution. But then Intel will probably release a new generation of CPU's which would have enough power to do everything AND have less heat output. We will see. 

 

The TV is in the room because I have nowhere else in the house to put it. At the moment, the receiver sends output to the 2 channel system via HT bypass on the preamp. Once the system is converted to full digital, I will have no way to route the audio from movies through the 2 channel system ... for the time being. I don't even know if it is possible. I think it COULD be done if I take a TOSLink signal from the receiver and input it into my RME HDSPe AES sound card, and then use that as an ASIO input for HQPlayer to do the convolving. If you or anybody else has any idea how to do this, I am all ears. 

 

As a stopgap solution, there will be another pair of speakers purely for movies and watching TV. 

Edited August 7, 20169 yr by Keith_W

Sorry if I misunderstand what you are saying but what do you mean by "perform convolution in DSD256" ? Is this done in real time at 11MHz or is it done by pre-processing a DSD file ? What tap lengths are the FIR filters ?

 

cheers

Edited August 7, 20169 yr by Tranquility Bass

As far as I understand it, it is done real time. As for the tap lengths and how it is done, see what you can glean from this webpage: http://www.signalyst.com/consumer.html

 

That's the software I am using to do the convolution. 

Keith, I am intrigued by your recent search. I thought you had excellence some years ago.

Alex, I have always been honest about what my system does well and what it doesn't. I think I did point out to you all the things it doesn't do. But what it DOES do well beats the pants off nearly anything else I have heard. There is simply nothing that can beat the transparency and delicacy as well as the capability of massive dynamics of this system from 600Hz up. Unfortunately, from 600Hz down it's all a bit of a dog's breakfast. 

 

This is why I keep chipping away at it rather than give up and buy something else. 

 

Not excellent yet. But hopefully I will get there. 

Alex, I have always been honest about what my system does well and what it doesn't. I think I did point out to you all the things it doesn't do. But what it DOES do well beats the pants off nearly anything else I have heard. There is simply nothing that can beat the transparency and delicacy as well as the capability of massive dynamics of this system from 600Hz up. Unfortunately, from 600Hz down it's all a bit of a dog's breakfast. 

 

This is why I keep chipping away at it rather than give up and buy something else. 

 

Not excellent yet. But hopefully I will get there. 

 

Cool. Let me know when you are next bbqing and have a spot. I need advice.

As far as I understand it, it is done real time. As for the tap lengths and how it is done, see what you can glean from this webpage: http://www.signalyst.com/consumer.html

 

That's the software I am using to do the convolution. 

 

Hi Keith

 

I can't see where it runs a convolution on the raw DSD256 signal. My understanding is that it seems to upsample to PCM 256x and then decimates down to a suitable rate of PCM 176K or 352K before it does the convolution where it probably converts back to DSD if required.

 

cheers

Edited August 7, 20169 yr by Tranquility Bass

Hi David, on another forum (Computer Audiophile), the author, Jussi, claims that all processing is done in DSD. He won't reveal any details on how it is done. 

 

I don't understand how he does it myself. All I know is that it is possible - after all, Pyramix software by Merging is able to apply DSP on DSD signal. 

 

However, given what I understand about DSD, I am prepared to be skeptical. But what I hear so far - even without a DSD256 capable DAC - is pretty impressive. 

Edited August 7, 20169 yr by Keith_W

My understanding is that it seems to upsample to PCM 256x and then decimates down to a suitable rate of PCM 176K or 352K before it does the convolution where it probably converts back to DSD if required.

 

Miska (Jussi)  ::    When processing is performed from DSD input to DSD output, all processing is performed at native rate, not at any low-speed PCM. The DSD -> PCM conversion now applies only when PCM output mode is selected and file being played back is DSD

 

 

He won't reveal any details on how it is done.

 

There's been a myth get out that it was "impossible", or at least "nobody could or did do it"  .....  The reality is that it doesn't take anything special to operate on 1bit audio, except a lot of computing power.

Edited August 7, 20169 yr by davewantsmoore

Miska (Jussi)  ::    When processing is performed from DSD input to DSD output, all processing is performed at native rate, not at any low-speed PCM. The DSD -> PCM conversion now applies only when PCM output mode is selected and file being played back is DSD

 

 

 

There's been a myth get out that it was "impossible", or at least "nobody could or did do it"  .....  The reality is that it doesn't take anything special to operate on 1bit audio, except a lot of computing power.

 

Whether sinbgle or multibit, to run a convolution filter that does anything useful at 11.2MHz rate of DSD256 would require a tremendous number of taps and be more than any PC hardware could handle especially running under an operating system such as Windows etc. It's possible that he is taking advantage of the CUDA capability of any nVidia hardware but still the tap length would be astronoical so I remain skeptical of any claims.

 

cheers