Dilatante

Yes, Mac amps pair nicely with SF speakers. ARC (Audio Research) will pair really well with SF too even better imo. The trio used to be part of the same family and SF always voiced and tuned their speakers using both Mac & ARC electronics. I’ve heard SF Aida ll driven by two pairs of ARC Ref 750 SE vacuum tube monoblock amps (in bi-amp configuration) and ARC Ref 10 vacuum tube linestage pre with some DCS Vivaldi full four stacks as digital front end components. The best sound I’ve ever heard from SF Aida ll but those ARC Ref 750 SE monoblocks retail for USD $90k/pair here so USD $180k for both pairs and the ARC Ref 10 linestage pre is USD $33k here.

There’s no such a thing as luxury brand in hifi audio imo. High end yes.....Mac is indeed a high end brand alongside Classe, Audio Research, Pass, Levinson, Krell, Naim, Linn, etc, etc..... There are many other brands that are much more expensive than Mac. Audio Research, Levinson, Pass, Naim, D’Agostino cost way more than Mac and are much better than Mac. Not bashing Mac, they make good products and build quality is excellent and retain their resale values very well. Not sure if I agree with your comment re Mac being perceived as luxury Bose in the US. I live here in the US and we don’t see it that way. Bose isn’t even hifi. Mac is. However you are correct that sound is a subjective thing. It’s all about system matching or overall system synergy.

Hi there, sorry for the delay response. I’m still waiting for a response back from Cello Technologies Seattle re the Acurus Muse. Re McIntosh Room Perfect room correction built in their flagship MX160 processor yes heard great things about Room Perfect and specifically MX160 but retails for USD $14k here and has many channels that I won’t be needing. The McIntosh MX1223, which is their lower end av processor, is much more affordable at USD $6500 here but uses Audyssey and isn’t worth considering when plan on spending that kind of money, the 8805 offers much greater value IMO at USD $4500 or less here and highly doubt that the MX123 will perform that much better than the 8805. For around USD $6500 the NAD M17 v2, which also retails for USD $6500 here, is more worthy contender than the MX123 imo. Speaking of the MX160, we did compare its 2ch analog performance with the SSP 800 at one dealer who had both at the time and the SSP 800 still sounded better in 2ch. But the MX160 performed better in surrounds for movies hands down.

Hi there, sorry for the delay in responding. Yes, I did download the the Audyssey app and removed the bbc dip that Audyssey applies by default and while it improved vocals / midrange but IMO the way NAD M17 v2 is still a bit better overall for surround sound movies and 2ch music when both units were used as a digital stereo pre but without room correction when I ran a coax digital cable from my Cary CD 306 SACD player for CD playbacks, and in that same regard the SSP 800 also sounded better than both NAD & Marantz. Yes, when comparing the 8805 as a pure analog 2ch pre I did remove and bypass DSP and all the digital processings including the Audyssey etc in the Marantz and the 8805 worked as a pure analog 2ch pre but still couldn’t compare to my SSP 800 in 2ch. They aren’t in the same league. The 8805 sounded decent in stereo for music both when used as an analog 2ch pre or digital 2ch pre using its onboard DAC. But all DACs in all these 3 av processors cannot match those in my Cary CD 306 SACD player when I ran XLR analog out of the Cary. Well....to start with my Cary CD 306 SACD player/DAC did retail for USD $8k when purchased brand new but has been discontinued sometime ago. And it has 4 main transformers power supplies each feeding separate power delivery to each section : digital, DAC, analog output stage circuitry and control circuitry. The Cary is equipped with 8 DAC chips for both channels in dual differential configurations : 4 DAC chips for dedicated DSD (SACD) playbacks and the other 4 for dedicated PCM playbacks. I get to keep both the Marantz and the NAD for 2 weeks and I still have another 6 days left to return them to 2 different hifi stores. I need to make a decision between the 8805 and the NAD M17 v2. So far I tend to lean toward the NAD but they both are great when used for surround sound processor for movies (HT) with the NAD slightly edges out the Marantz. As for my dedicated 2ch pre/power amp combo or 2ch integrated amp I also highly consider the Musical Fidelity NuVista 600 or 800 but I think the 800 would be overkill for my speakers ?. Thanks for the tips re Musical FidelityNuVista integrated. I also consider other integrated options such as the Pass integrated or the Levinson. Heard that a new Classe Delta line 2ch integrated amp will be launched sometime next year but will be very expensive most likely more than the MF NuVista 800. Or I might as well go with the PS Audio BHK pre & stereo power amp separates but figure I can save some $$ for a pair of XLR analog interconnects if I go with an integrated amp. Will keep you guys posted whether I would keep the 8805 or the NAD M17 v2. Thanks again.

I have an update on the AV8805. So, I was able to get a take home demo model from one local dealer here and was also able to get another take home demo of the NAD M17 v2 from a different hifi store here. I currently have 2 processors plus my Classe SSP 800 to compare. First off, for stereo music my Classe SSP 800 sounded the best compared to the other two. hands down. The Classe is more musical more refined quieter and sounding more resolved. The Classe is the king of the hill in stereo coming from an AV preamp surround processor. The comparisons were made with my Cary Audio CD 306 SACD player/DAC served as a digital front end source component and I ran XLR balanced analog interconnects to each preamp processor, but I suspect the NAD M17 digitizes its analog audio inputs. For surround sound movies (HT) I could easily live with either of them, but the SSP 800 still sounded the best but the NAD M17 v2 with Dirac Live when calibrated properly brings it close to my SSP 800. I’m not a fan of Audyssey at all and wished the Marantz went with either Dirac Live or Room Perfect. But all 3 processors perform fabulous for HT (movies). All surround sound comparisons were made in 5.1 since I only have 5.1 HT setup with my Oppo 105 playing bluray disc movies and I ran HDMI cable to each processor. If I have to rank all three processors in terms of overall sound quality or sonic fidelity in both stereo and multi-channels I would put the Classe SSP 800 on top, followed by the NAD M17 v2 and the AV8805 last, but pretty darn close between the NAD M17 v2 and the Marantz AV8805 which would make the AV8805 the best value of the bunch since the Marantz is the cheapest of the bunch. Most likely I will be getting the NAD M17 v2 for HT and will get a dedicated high end 2ch pre and 2ch power amp or a high end stereo integrated amp for music. I highly consider the PS Audio BHK 2ch analog pre with its matching PS Audio BHK 250 2ch amp which both are hybrid design with tube input stage and SS output stage. I’m also open to a very good high end stereo analog integrated amp. Will see. I need to sell my SSP 800 as soon as I can before the issue gets worse.

I love Sony TVs in general, and Sony OLED 4K TV is the best.

For now, I won’t be able to go 3D surround audio eg Dolby Atmos or DTS-X. What happens to your Yammie processor?

Nowaday Lyngdorf is more of a HT focus although they are still making digital stereo integrated amps with Room Perfect built in but they are class D amp and will digitize their analog inputs. Yes, ideally one should board a plane to go to SF Bay Area from Seattle but I’ve been avoiding that since COVID ? It’s unfortunate that Anthem no longer makes dedicated HT processors like the Anthem Statement D2V2, which I believed was the last real genuine processor from Anthem. When it comes to 2ch pre/power combo, yes I will be really careful in matching the pre to the amp and of course to my speakers as well as to my front end source component (my Cary Audio CD 306 SACD player/DAC). I believe in system synergy. There are many options out there. I prefer a tube pre with SS power amp combo which usually (but not always) would yield very good sonic result. Or a hybrid design like the PS Audio BHK line with tube input stage and SS output stage. If I had a separate dedicated listening room and setup for 2ch music and home theater in separate rooms and systems I probably would have gone all tubes for my dedicated 2ch setup for music with tube pre & tube amp or a tube integrated amp. But since I am combining HT & 2ch music in the same system I would have to go with SS power amp for front LR speakers. Again thank you. Will report back when I get my hands on the Marantz AV8805 later in the week.

Hi Colin, I think the NAD M17 v2 fully supports and decodes Atmos & DTS-X but will find out about which version of Dirac it comes with. Thanks for the heads up. Will look into the Acurus processor and will get in touch with Cello Technologies Seattle. Thank you for the info and much appreciated. They are actually by one of my local dealer Definitive Audio Seattle. There’s also another hifi shop on that same block where Definitive Audio is called Hawthorne Stereo but they only sell 2ch stuff.

Yes, heard great things about the NAD M17 v2 the one with Dirac Live room correction, not the original M17 w/ Audyssey. Thanks for the heads up re Krell Foundation. I will scratch that off my list then. I will add the Audio Control Maestro M9 to my short list. There’s an Audio Control dealer outside Seattle about 75 miles north of Seattle close to US/Canada border. By the way, Audio Control is based out of greater Seattle area. So, it’s local. They use Dirac Live as well. I was thinking about the Lyngdorf Mp-50 but there’s no dealer in our state. the closest one will be in SF bay area in California. Too far of a drive, more like 12 to 13 hour drive from Seattle. Won’t work. In regards to Anthem processors, I heard the same about the AVM60, which is actually their flagship AVR (MRX 1120) minus power amps and costs only USD $500 cheaper than the MRX 1120 avr. Might also be true with the AVM70, which replaces AVM60. Not sure about the AVM90 which isn’t released yet. So now I narrow down the choices between the Marantz AV8805, NAD M17 v2 & Audio Control M9 for HT. As for 2ch analog pre for music, the new Classe Delta Pre 2ch pre has built-in DAC. I prefer a pure all analog pre since I already have a very good digital front end source component (Cary Audio CD 306 SACD player/DAC professional edition). Plus the new Classe Delta Stereo 2ch power amp and Delta Mono monoblock amps are way out of my price range and will be overkill for my speakers, unless if I upgrade my speakers. The new Classe Delta Stereo 2ch power amp retails for USD $14k here and the new Delta Mono monoblock amps are USD $22k for the pair. And the new Delta Pre 2ch preamp/DAC is USD $10k here. Too much for my system setup. I prefer tube pre or something like PS Audio BHK linestage pre, which is a hybrid design with tube input stage and SS output stage. Heard great thing about these PS Audio BHK series. If I end up with this pre I would most likely go with their matching PS Audio BHK 250 stereo amp, which is also a hybrid design with tube input stage and SS output stage. I will report back re AV8805 this weekend once I have it hooked up in my own setup at home. Can’t thank you enough for your advises, inputs, thoughts and suggestions.

I will for sure.

Yes, the Classe CP 700 is a great sounding analog 2ch pre and it’s very expected that the SSP 800 can’t compete with CP 700 in 2ch. The SSP 800’s stereo analog audio input & output stages were based on the CP 700 but of course the CP 700 would perform better since it is a dedicated 2ch analog pre with external PSU. there’s much less crosstalk, noise and interference and no digital audio video board no DAC with the CP 700 since it is only a pure 2ch analog pre. plus its PSU is external so will be no noise & vibration generated from the power supply. whereas there are compromises made with all AV preamp surround processors and the SSP 800 was no exception but these compromises are kept to minimal with the SSP 800 compared to most other surround processors ( especially cheaper ones). Just curious when you and your cousin compared the SSP 800 & CP 700, did you guys have the SSP 800 configured or set to stereo analog bypass mode when listening in stereo? Cause it would make a big difference sonically. The stereo analog bypass mode would completely bypass DSP and other digital processings. yeah.....the 2ch performance of the Marantz 8802 is very decent especially considering its price point and it is a surround processor after all. I was able to talk to a local Marantz dealer here in Seattle and they are willing to lend me their demo or floor model of AV8805 for me to do take home demo. So I will be picking that up sometime this week and will report back. I’m also considering other options as well eg Anthem AVM90, NAD M17 v2 or Krell Foundation for HT. I’m only limited to 5.2 or possibly 7.2 setup at the most. Won’t be able to do 3D audio such as Dolby Atmos setup though. I will most likely get a dedicated 2ch analog pre with HT bypass. I am able to reconfigure my rack space and room in order to accommodate for a dedicated 2ch pre. For a dedicated analog 2ch pre I am considering several tube options from Cary Audio, ARC (Audio Research), Luxman as well as SS options from Accuphase, Levinson, PS Audio BHK hybrid pre, or possibly a new Classe Delta Pre. I will also get a stereo amp to power my front LR speakers and look for a three-channel amp or a five-channel amp to power my center & surround speakers. Right now I’m using Classe Sigma Amp5 five-channel classs D amp and will probably use it for my center & surrounds and am highly considering the PS Audio BHK 250 hybrid stereo power amp for my front LR speakers.

IMO most Mac gears lack image focus, separations, details, resolution and transparency and somewhat colored. The soundstages are also somewhat constricted imo unless if you go with their huge monoblock amps such as the MCK 1.25 or the MC611.

Generally I would describe Naim as warm smooth punchy yet rthymic and pacy as you said. they excel in PRAT. The lower end Naim gears don’t throw large soundstage but also depends on your speakers and room. But the higher end Naim lines such as their 500 series separates with the 500 series external PSUs and the Naim Statement pre & Statement monoblock amps are different story. They throw huge soundstages with solid precise imaging and are highly musical sounding gears but are uber expensive. My cousin owns the Naim Statement NAC S1 analog linestage pre & Naim Statement NAP S1 monoblock amps paired with the Magico M6 speakers. These are all cost-no-object or price-no-object design gears and speakers and are the best sounding setup I’ve ever heard in my life. Wish I had that kind of money. And not a single Mac gears or Accuphase or Levinson or Pass and any other high end or ultra high end gears can come close to these Naim Statements pre/monoblock amps combo performance wise. But to be fair these Naim Statement pre/power amp combo retail for close to USD $300k for both pre and the monoblock amps here in the US. Pretty much close to USD $100k for the preamp and close to USD $200k for the monoblock amps. These Naim Statement gears are comparable sonically to the flagship D’Agostino Relentless monoblock amps, which are also cost-no-object design amps. For digital front end source components my cousin has the MSB Select ll DAC stacks with dual mono powerhouses (two separate power supply units) and its flagship Femto 33 clock as well as the Taeko Audio SGM Extreme music server feeding the MSB Select ll DAC. For analog front end he has the Clearaudio Statement v2 turntable w/ Statement TT2 tonearm & Statement Goldfinger mc cartridge and D’Agostino Momentum phono pre. I can only dream of owning these kinds of ultra high end cost-no-object design equipments.

IMO Mac gears are overpriced and there are many cheaper alternatives that would sound better. You are pretty much paying for the looks and name as the brand has been around for the longest time. But their amps and preamps are very reliable and retain their resale values very well and probably have the highest resale value in hifi audio industry. Mac amps are pretty good and very safe sounding but not that great considering how much they charge. Build quality are top notch though. Their preamps aren’t that good imo. Given the choice between Mac and Accuphase I would go with the Accuphase any time but Mac gears look so much better than Accuphase gears, which IMO look ugly. Accuphase is also expensive and in general I think is more expensive than the Mac here in the US. Or given the choice between Mac and similarly priced gears or even much less expensive gears than the Mac I would go with all the other ones for sound quality. Mac gears tend to sound dull and too syrupy warm lacking musical drive, PRAT, resolution, details, transparency and image & soundstage focus and separations in comparison with other similarly priced products. Mac amps are safe sounding and are very pleasant to listen to for long periods. Especially Mac digital front end source components (CD/SACD players/transports/DAC/streamer) are garbage IMO. I’m a big fan of Naim and they are very expensive but sound very musical. They are warm but are very rthymic excels in PRAT and has musical drive that are missing with Mac gears. Even Naim Uniti Nova, which is a all-in-one integrated (streamer/DAC/integrated amp) is a highly musical sounding unit.

Yup, Cambridge Audio has given up completely on the AV side and just sticking to 2ch only.

When I had a take home demo of the 8802 few yrs back I felt its 2ch performance for music wasn’t on the same level as my Classe SSP 800 and/or other high end dedicated 2ch preamp offerings from Classe, Mac, ARC (Audio Research), Levinson, Pass, Naim & Linn to name a few. I felt the need for a dedicated 2ch pre with the 8802. With the SSP 800 I don’t feel the need for a good dedicated high end 2ch pre for music as it satisfies the need for both 2ch & HT. I’ve had the SSP 800 for almost 10 yrs now so I guess it has served me well.

Yup, although I’ve never owned any Rotel HT processors but heard from many who owned older Rotel HT processors (pre HDMI) in the past that many claimed they were very reliable and never had issues.

Rotel imo is very well known for their amps. they make great amps for the money. Their HT processors and AVRs are very buggy and people usually avoid buying Rotel AVRs & HT processors. HDMI board issues and other software bugs that Rotel consistently fails to fix. Their amps however are excellent and offer great values, the best bang for your buck kinda thing. Rumor has it that in the future Rotel probably won’t be making any more HT products (AVRs & HT processors). We’ll see I guess. Rotel’s high end line Michi is strictly 2ch.

Ok thanks. The best ideal option would be to get a separate dedicated 2ch pre with HT bypass or stereo integrated amp with HT bypass for music and get either the 8805 or some other processor for movies (HT). Yeah....I’m only limited to 5.1 / 5.2 setup and won’t be able to do 3D audio eg Atmos setup. that’s why I’m very content with my SSP 800 but recently started giving me minor issue, so I really want to get rid of it before it gets worse. And plus if I wait any longer to sell my SSP 800 its resale value will further plummet. That’s a drawback of all obsolete HT processors like my SSP 800, their resale values suffer.

I bet the Electra would have costed twice as much here as they do in their home country (Aust) had they made it here in the States. But those Mac, Levinson, Pass, Krell are manufactured locally too here in the US but the parts/components eg transistors, caps, etc came from everywhere and bulks of them I bet came from China or Taiwan and perhaps Japan or S Korea as well. The new latest Classe Delta series gears are different story, they are made in Japan but designed & engineered in Montreal, Canada since they are Canadian not American. The older Classe Delta & Omega series gears were made in Montreal, Canada. Re Rotel, yes they make ver6 honest gears and priced very reasonably here as well. They have great price/performance ratio. But yes I agree that the current Rotel 15xx series amps lack a bit in details, resolution & transparency, they are warm, smooth sounding amps quite musical. they sound very fluid and liquid which is suitable for music but lacking a bit in details resolution & transparency. And they are very affordable here in the States as they are made in China but designed & engineered in the UK with some parts being imported from there but are assembled in China. Have you got a chance to demo some Michi gears? Heard great stuff from people who have heard them. Their build quality is top notch and according to one reviewer (SoundstageUltra.com / SoundstageAccess.com) the Michi gears are better built than those new latest Classe Delta series gears and are priced quite a bit lower than those new Classe Delta series gears. but he claimed that the new Classe Delta series gears sounded better as he has recently reviewed both and ended up purchasing the new Classe Delta Mono monoblock amps with their matching Classe Delta Pre stereo preamp and sold his Simaudio Moon Evolution monoblock amps and his ARC Ref 6 vacuum tube linestage pre.

By the way folks, back to Marantz AV8805, I will try to find one to demo it preferably in my oven setup. But like many of you here claimed that the 8805 doesn’t sound any better than the 8802 I’ve had a chance to demo in my own system few yrs back, I will try to re-configure my rack space in order to accommodate for a very good high end dedicated stereo pre with HT bypass. So I would be using the 8805 for movies (HT) and a dedicated stereo pre for music. As of now I just don’t have the room for a separate dedicated 2ch pre. or another option would be to sell my power amp and look for a very good high end stereo integrated amp with HT bypass feature to power the front LR speakers and to use for 2ch music playbacks and get a multi-channel amp to power the center & surround speakers.

Thanks for posting them. Yes they seem to have very good basic topology design and reminds me a bit of the Rotel RB-1582 Mk ii stereo amp. On one of the pic you posted they had the Electra pre & amp separates driving the Wilson Audio speakers. Are they Wilson Sasha or Sophia? Did you get to hear the system and how they pair together? I’ve heard different Wilson speakers numerous times mostly at one local dealer here in Seattle. Most of the time they were being driven by either some ARC (Audio Research) or D’Agostino amps/pre with some DCS digital front end components and/or AMG or Clearaudio turntables with either the ARC phono pre or D’Agostino phono pre.

I figured they were since they get mentioned here a lot. Are they quite reasonably priced? Cheaper than Mac or Classe or Pass or Levinson and the likes?