Thanks for the link.

 

I'm a long time non-fan of the TGA, they have self interests and have had for a long time.

The TGA is not without it's problems, but consider what would happen if cigarettes, cigars and other hazardous products were submitted for approval for use on humans today. Would they be approved for use?

Absolutely not.

E-cigs are somewhat tricky. Certainly they are less dangerous than cigarettes and cigars, but they are not without risk. Nicotine is still a deadly poison and must be tightly regulated.

Obviously written by an addict.

The way to kick an addiction is to stop using the drug. Nicotine is the drug (and a deadly poison). Nicotine is the problem. It is also the method by which the drug pushers extract money from people to line the pockets of their shareholders. Substituting one drug delivery system for a different drug delivery system is not all that helpful.

The major part of the problem is that the normals don't like being assaulted with nicotine fumes. Normals don't mind if nicotine addicts use their product in their own environment. It's when they stray into the normals' environment that problems begin. Normals have the right to breathe clean, unadulterated air at all times.

I like your simplified view of addiction....not! :lol:

 

Simply ceasing taking the drug is only the first step, and I leave it to you to find out the rest

 

Edit: Ever heard the term "Dry Drunk"? That's someone who just stops drinking without addressing other aspects of lifestyle and attitudes ect'.

 

The TGA is not without it's problems, but consider what would happen if cigarettes, cigars and other hazardous products were submitted for approval for use on humans today. Would they be approved for use?

Absolutely not.

E-cigs are somewhat tricky. Certainly they are less dangerous than cigarettes and cigars, but they are not without risk. Nicotine is still a deadly poison and must be tightly regulated.

I was more so looking at what the board members on the TGA have in personal/financial interests. (It's not easy to do, and not many would bother to do so).

 

Oh, I agree with the bold part, imagine if Alcoholic beverages were only now discovered, there would be an all out explosion in the War On Drugs. It would be seen as worse that all the others....It kills in many ways, it destroys families, societies and lives...but the powers that be love it and make a fortune from It's sale along with the tax on tobacco........the government profits from addiction.

Edited May 14, 201510 yr by ortofun

I like your simplified view of addiction....not! :lol:

I have some experience with humans suffering addictions. Alcohol, heroin and tobacco products. Heroin is the easiest to give up. Tobacco, the hardest. Alcohol, by a very long margin, the deadliest (by going 'cold turkey'). Tobacco, the least problematical to go cold turkey (by a very considerable margin). Tobacco is also the most costly to our society in wasted medical resources. Tobacco is, therefore, the drug (delivery system) that should be dealt with urgently.

 

Simply ceasing taking the drug is only the first step, and I leave it to you to find out the rest

All drugs need to be treated differently, depending on how they affect humans. Tobacco products are easy. Withdrawal is merely uncomfortable for the addict. Alcohol withdrawal, from the addict, can be extremely dangerous. Heroin withdrawal is extremely uncomfortable, but not all that dangerous. Other drugs are different and should be treated accordingly.

I was more so looking at what the board members on the TGA have in personal/financial interests. (It's not easy to do, and not many would bother to do so).

 

Oh, I agree with the bold part, imagine if Alcoholic beverages were only now discovered, there would be an all out explosion in the War On Drugs. It would be seen as worse that all the others....It kills in many ways, it destroys families, societies and lives...but the powers that be love it and make a fortune from It's sale along with the tax on tobacco........the government profits from addiction.

It's more complicated than that. Governments are, rightly, weaning the public off tobacco products. Gradually introducing bans, increasing prices and forcing packaging changes are all designed to kill off smoking forever. Roughly 90% of the population can deal with alcohol 'responsibly'. As such, bans would be difficult and extremely unpopular. Unlike tobacco, alcohol has a safe level of consumption (as does heroin, BTW). Further complicating matters, is the political depth and breadth of the alcohol industry. As governments have found, lobbying by the alcohol industry can be costly to governments.

@@Zaphod Beeblebrox

 

I agree with much of what you have there, but not all of it.

 

But then no two people will agree 100% on most things

@@Lloyd

 

I noticed that "12 week plan to switch off the receptors" and if that is the receptor blocker drug that was made as an anti depressant originally (can't recall the name) be cautious. Many folk have allergic reactions to it, I got as far as the second dose (day 2) and had to stop, inexplicably angry at a rage level for no reason, and blistering of lips and tongue   

 

Seems to work for some though.

@ Thanks for that info.  I suspected as much about these things - I am highly reluctant to take any mind altering prescription medications on any level.  Your allergy is awfully unfortunate.   I keep my script in my drawer.

I have had a rotten case of the flu the last few days.  I indulged in quantities of garlic and chilli previously unknown to mankind, and eucalyptus oil in one of those hippy candle burners.  Some strepsils for a rotten sore throat/tonsils.

No meds, not even aspro (I have nothing against aspro - it is actually quite good for other reasons), and am pretty much better now.

If I was on the ciggies my lungs would have hurt like the heart of the sun.

As it was, some cool puffs now and again from the e-cig soothed and relaxed.  My fave was a menthol flavour.

 

Edited May 16, 201510 yr by Lloyd

Obviously written by an addict.

It is also the method by which the drug pushers extract money from people to line the pockets of their shareholders. Substituting one drug delivery system for a different drug delivery system is not all that helpful.

The major part of the problem is that the normals don't like being assaulted with nicotine fumes. Normals don't mind if nicotine addicts use their product in their own environment. It's when they stray into the normals' environment that problems begin. Normals have the right to breathe clean, unadulterated air at all times.

I do enjoy your creativity, but I don't think that normals is a word that has made it into the English language quite yet, but I will attempt to facilitate.

Now, this is where Green double standards kick in and are most transparent to normals.

The normals who sell e liquid extract money, as they are entitled to.  I call it a fair trade, but each normal to their own in their heightened sense of moral superiority.

Being fair, I mean about 10 bucks a week instead of 100.

I suspect that being normal, you may be confusing tobacco fumes (which as a normal I addressed in the first line of my first normal comment) with nicotine fumes.  Show me normal evidence that the latter exist.  My normal understanding is that they do not normally exist.  

 

Edited May 16, 201510 yr by Lloyd

And it was disgusting.

 

 

Just like the real thing then! 

I do enjoy your creativity, but I don't think that normals is a word that has made it into the English language quite yet, but I will attempt to facilitate.

As a noun, the word 'normal' does not appear to exist in the plural form. Fortunately, the term 'normals' seems to be understood by others (including yourself).

 

Now, this is where Green double standards kick in and are most transparent to normals.

The normals who sell e liquid extract money, as they are entitled to.  I call it a fair trade, but each normal to their own in their heightened sense of moral superiority.

Whilst normals may sell e liquid, I contest that such people are just drug pushers. I place them around the same level as those who sell heroin. Nicotine is the one the most addictive substances known. It has been known for decades. I have no respect for those who sell the drug and little sympathy for those who are addicted.

 

Being fair, I mean about 10 bucks a week instead of 100.

No idea what you're talking about.

 

I suspect that being normal, you may be confusing tobacco fumes (which as a normal I addressed in the first line of my first normal comment) with nicotine fumes.  Show me normal evidence that the latter exist.  My normal understanding is that they do not normally exist.

There's the rub: We don't know the health ramifications of e-cigs. They are PROBABLY safer than regular cigs, but there has been insufficient research into the product to know. Here is some more information:

"Although they do not produce tobacco smoke, e-cigarettes still contain nicotine and other potentially harmful chemicals. Nicotine is a highly addictive drug, and recent research suggests nicotine exposure may also prime the brain to become addicted to other substances. Also, testing of some e-cigarette products found the vapor to contain known carcinogens and toxic chemicals (such as formaldehyde and acetaldehyde), as well as potentially toxic metal nanoparticles from the vaporizing mechanism. The health consequences of repeated exposure to these chemicals are not yet clear."

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/electronic-cigarettes-e-cigarettes

 

"Because e-cigarettes have only been readily available in the United States since 2006, there is limited research on their health risks. According to one analysis by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the tobacco solution used in e-cigarettes contains a toxic chemical found in antifreeze and several cancer-causing chemicals, such as nitrosamines. Little more is known about the types or concentrations of chemicals, including nicotine, in e-cigarettes. However, the chemicals in e-cigarettes, the potential harmful effects, and the addictiveness vary based on the brand.

Among all of the alternative tobacco products, e-cigarettes are the least regulated. They have no warning labels and can be sold to people of any age. The FDA has not approved e-cigarettes as a way to quit smoking. People with cancer who want to quit smoking should use the approved methods for quitting smoking."

 

 

http://www.cancer.net/navigating-cancer-care/prevention-and-healthy-living/tobacco-use/health-risks-e-cigarettes-smokeless-tobacco-and-waterpipes

 

Since these potentially lethal chemicals are in the vapour, those chemicals can enter the lungs of normals. If smokers cannot give up their filthy habit, then they should NOT be allowed to inflict their chemical dependence on normals. 

 

BTW: I'm not certain why you posted this in the 'Food, Wine & Coffee' section. Nicotine is not so different to heroin, cocaine or ice. It is simply a drug of addiction with no safe level of human consumption. This is unlike food, wine and coffee.

Edited May 18, 201510 yr by Zaphod Beeblebrox

This thread is OK for good people talking about bad habits like excessive alcohol.  Which can wreck health, relationships, careers, lives and so on.

I have addressed most of your concerns in previous posts.  The authors of the study who found nasty things in e liquid at high temperatures/volts/amps were also very quick to point out that they were not present in low voltage settings.

I don't like repeating myself.  You may remember my burnt toast analogy if you read what I write.

 

Other than nicotine, just Glycol and vegetable Glycerine (both of which are inert and very common in foodstuffs) are used.  

Nitrosamine is not included in the stuff I use. That is a chemical used in condoms and cosmetics, amongst other things.

It has been a long time since I tried to smoke a stick of lipstick.

Maybe some palm oil would not go astray.  I'll ask about that.

I always appreciate your confirmation bias.

Edited May 18, 201510 yr by Lloyd

This thread is OK for good people talking about bad habits like excessive alcohol.  Which can wreck health, relationships, careers, lives and so on.

No argument from me: Alcohol is the second most deadly drug in Australian society (after nicotine delivery systems). Alcohol should be far more tightly regulated than it is right now. Penalties for those supplying alcohol to children should include gaol terms. That includes the parents of those children. Same deal with nicotine delivery systems. It is high time that alcohol and nicotine delivery systems (NDS) were subjected to far greater controls than they presently are. Additionally, it is the responsibility of the NDS manufacturers to prove the safety of their system with properly conducted medical trials.

I have addressed most of your concerns in previous posts.  The authors of the study who found nasty things in e liquid at high temperatures/volts/amps were also very quick to point out that they were not present in low voltage settings.

Nonsense. Nicotine is present, along with a host of other chemicals. I remind you once more: Nicotine is an highly addictive, deadly poison.

I don't like repeating myself.  You may remember my burnt toast analogy if you read what I write.

 

Other than nicotine, just Glycol and vegetable Glycerine (both of which are inert and very common in foodstuffs) are used.

Ehtylene glycol is an industrial chemical used in the manufacture of polyester fabrics. It is commonly used as an anti-freeze in car cooling systems. It is poisonous to humans. It is banned in foodstuffs (of course). Glycerine is generally regarded as non-toxic.

Nitrosamine is not included in the stuff I use. That is a chemical used in condoms and cosmetics, amongst other things.

It has been a long time since I tried to smoke a stick of lipstick.

Maybe some palm oil would not go astray.  I'll ask about that.

I always appreciate your confirmation bias.

I don't mind your use of e-cigs, but NEVER think that we normals want to inhale the poisons contained within your e-cigs. We don't. You should also NEVER assume that e-cigs are safe, until and unless a proper medical study has been conducted on their use.

No worries.

Technical point - the glycol used is propylene (PP) glycol, not ethylene (EH) glycol.

I thank you for this slight but significant error, as it may highlight inaccuracies floating about in the insidious and ignorant war against e-cigs.  My error, also, in not being more specific.

Whilst PP and EH may have similar properties (however defined), PP are deemed to be health safe and its toxicity is extremely low, and are commonly plonked into things like ice cream, lemonade, booze and many pharma products, eg, asthma inhalers.  The US FDA has deemed it safe to consume - and my understanding is that the FDA are pretty puritan.  

PP is perfectly fine.

This is unlike EH, which is toxic which you correctly point out.  It would be a pox on anyone who tried something like that.  That you suggested that e-cigs contain such stuff is like calling the Pope a Lutheran.

It does help to have a knowledge of chemistry before posting obvious incorrect scientific information that scares vulnerable people and children, but there ya go.  

Safety, I suppose, is relative.  If you want complete safety from chemicals - however remotely toxic - become a bubble boy.  My frame of reference of years of inhaling a cocktail of poisons on this matter is known.

I introduced this thread in a spirit of altruism to spread awareness amongst other SNA people who may find themselves in my predicament, and who may have not been aware of e-cigs, or, if they had been, had been put off by mis-information.

Edited May 19, 201510 yr by Lloyd

I was told it wasn't all that rare, not at all rare in fact

 

Either way I can't, the level of anger was insane and I felt like I could kill for no reason....weird! for a very non violent person like I am...... This was only day 2. That's unless my tongue kept blistering to the point I suffocated on it first :lol:

 

I'll kick them soon enough, It's only a matter of doing it....I have quite other things where many haven't been able to. It's not hard to do, but is easy not to do, and the only thing standing in the way in doing it is myself.

 

Typo

 

I kicked them for over two years..................even with drinking..................but booze and smokes were made for each other!