yellowhandman Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 why would they do that... IMO, only the few people in here (and various AV forums) buy PS3s as BD players haha...i know...but i'd buy a metal PS3! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloob Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 But knowing Sony, they will do the Sony thing during christmas and come up with an all white PS3, and for Valentine's Day, an all pink PS3, and an all green PS3 on St Patrick's Day, and an all yellow PS3 for Lamborghini...etc. ::) Maybe for us die-hard fans, they might just come out with PS3 Xtreme - clad in brushed metal ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetherock Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share Posted June 20, 2007 Seems the land where a XE1 costs Aus$ 1599 SRP is not doing much to promote their product... http://blogs.smh.com.au/fastforward/archives/2007/06/hd_dvd_where_art_thou.html wake up Toshiba! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapp1624705742 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 just as an aside... no matter how happy i am with my PS3, it still doesn't feel like a high-quality component to me...i like my home theater components to be big chunks of metal. it just gives a better sense of quality, and of course we are all brainwashed to believe that heavier = better stability, etc. the PS3 is really stylish looking and is a darned good blu-ray player, game machine and (although i haven't seen for myself) upscaling DVD player...but it still looks like a toy to me. maybe if sony could stick a PS3 in a chunk of metal? now THAT would be cool. 8) ;D take a look at the quality of the CELL processor...now thats high quality. I prefer my home theatre components to be as small as possible if i had a choice actually. This will help reduce clutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuttonFlanks Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I don't know about you guys but the PS3 was MUCH bigger and MUCH heavier than I thought just from looking at pictures. Although I do agree some metal would be nice... lol ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetherock Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share Posted June 21, 2007 Nice article: http://www.dvdbits.com/details.asp?newsid=4594 "The “war” between formats is a purely fictional one. Early adopters of DVD will remember another fictional war a few years ago, that between Dolby Digital and DTS. Remember when people actually cared as to which was better? In some circles, it is still an ongoing debate. I went deaf from listening to MP3 players year ago anyway, so who cares? Back then, Sony (again) were trying to push the Superbit format that had DTS on a separate disc to regular DVDs. Now it is commonplace to see both Dolby and DTS intermingling on the same disc, with 4 commentary tracks and a branching version of the film. Is it not conceivable that this will happen one day with hi-def formats? Warner has already announced their Total Hi Def discs, a disc that will do just that: contain both formats on a single medium. Due out in the second half of 2007, it once again begs the question: “Does there need to be a war?” " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiriuslyCold Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 they should have kept the LD sized 12" discs, who knows how much data you can store on it by now.. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowhandman Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 they should have kept the LD sized 12" discs, who knows how much data you can store on it by now.. ;D imagine what computer notebooks would look like if optical discs were still that size... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmateo Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Well you might want to look at it from the bright side.. as least it will come with 37" sized screened... :o Not to mention keeping all those guys/gals carrying laptop around fit and slim :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetherock Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 The trouble with high def... It introduces a whole suitcase of new sound formats, connectors, and technology that threaten to render our old amps as useful as toasters. It brings along issues such as compatability with older HDMI versions, bandwidth of the connectors, and the increasing number of HDMI inputs and outputs we need, on the amps and video panels. The aim of reducing the number of spagetti like arrangements which make our better halves rant at us, with HDMI cables is at once overtaken by the increase in number of new technologies needing this connector. Nothing has quite gripped the HT section of this forum like the recent emergence of a new 1.3v HDMI equipped amp series. This new frenzy will almost eclipse the buying interest of the last craze, the Panasonic XR 55 / 57 series which could do no wrong and will be heralded into the HT hall of Fame. But wait, isn't that just a few months back? The curse of technology and being at the forefront of things means we sometimes chase the latest products with a certain despair that we will be the brothers who bear the burden of higher prices, shoddy shipment dates, unfulfilled technologies (where is the 24 fps update Toshi?) and issues with beta versions or bugs in the soft or hardware. Hence it may be prudent to hang back, let that first wave of instant gratification rush by, and examine the new techologies carefully and let that wallet sit in our pockets a little longer first. Will I stop adopting new hi def technolgies? Nay, but I will subject the new toys to rigourous auditions first as music comes first (aka Marantz motto :) ) The new amps must also give good sound quality, apart from featuring the latest gadgets and formats, for how many of us currently use more than 5.1 setups, and go past the DD or DTS formats. Of those amps with 101 DSP modes, how many do we actually employ? A good amp section with quality bits inside will let the amp remain useful and playable a long time after we have embraced the new techologies. I remember the rush when I finally got a Marantz DP 870 DD decoder and hooked it up to my HK, Rotel setup, unwrapped my new Pioneer DVD player and popped in Patriot starring Mel Gibson, at $45 a disc, it was as though I had found the elixer of life! To paraphrase a school motto of mine, "and though the stars( sic toys) may change" our spirit of frontierism endures on. Sidere Mens Eadem Mutato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AngMoh Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 The trouble with high def... It introduces a whole suitcase of new sound formats, connectors, and technology that threaten to render our old amps as useful as toasters. If i might interject, your old Marantz amp (without HDMI) is hardly as useful as a toaster and on a sound quality basis would quite simply be one of the best in this forum, but more to the point i bet its sonically superior (SN, THD etc) to the next crop of HDMI 1.3 AVRs. The amp will remain useful so long as you can feed it with analogue. Nothing has quite gripped the HT section of this forum like the recent emergence of a new 1.3v HDMI equipped amp series. Which i frankly don't understand. If decoding is done at the source what precisely is the benefit of an AVR with HD decoding? As pointed out in another thread most, if not all of todays HD sources are unable to transmit undecoded HD down HDMI 1.3, further some content providers have authored their discs to also frustrate this approach. The aim of reducing the number of spaghetti like arrangements which make our better halves rant at us, with HDMI cables is at once overtaken by the increase in number of new technologies needing this connector. Aye, that is true - HDMI - the great saviour of spaghetti like cable arrangements. Of course in solving one problem the HDMI standard has created a whole pile more! To start with, unlike analogue hookups where the A/V signal is present at an output jack and needs simply to be fed to the appropriate input to complete the connection, HDMI involves handshaking protocols before any transmission takes place. During handshaking, all devices in an HDMI network identify each other and establish their capabilities. Here's the potential for a major glitch! Beyond the minefield of various capabilities of the differing versions (1.1-1.3) if you connect two HDMI devices together - the HDMI network will default to the lowest common denominator i.e. connect a multichannel AVR to a stereo TV, the multichannel capability is lost! I don't much like the connector either which really should have been secured in the same way as an old VGA connector with a pair of screws. The basic HDMI connector only has sufficient grip strength to retain lightweight cables. There are other problems too. An inside source at the HDMI licensing group confided that many outboard HDMI devices drag down the 5V/55mA source needed for handshaking, making interdevice communications impossible. HDMI cables themselves encourage internal reflections of the digital signals they carry and at certain lenghts, noise overwhelms signal integrity and no transmission is possible. I share this because - the trouble with Hi Def - as your thread started out, is that its complexity is its undoing. Joe Citizen with his SD DVD source which can play any SD disc is connected to his TV with a simple analogue connector and he sleeps better at night then an owner of an HD source who is forever waiting for his next firmware upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetherock Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 Despite the precarious path the cutting edge brothers tread, there has been recent developments which will make life easier for brothers in the xtreme world... Size... and it matters. We now bandy about words like Judder, fps, progessive and interlaced with great fervor, and part of this is due to the increase in size of panels. The previous gold standard of size was a 4:3 CRT and to this day most households in SG have a TV of that size. Now bigger panels and the technology behind them make some of these artifacts more visible. But there has been a steady increase in people buying bigger flatscreen panels, ranging from 37" right up to 65". Part of this is the increasing affluence due to the improving economy, but also because apartments are actually decreasing in size! This leads to a push for slimmer panels which take up less space than the previous VFM TVs, the RPTV which tended to dominate the whole living room and made much less space for other pieces of furniture and consequently lower WAF. Now with the advent of the slim LCD or plasmas, the better half is more inclined to permit us to get a nice 42" piece of joy to be hung out of the way of the kids and suddenly the world of viewing has expanded a good 50% or more. But.... The consequence of this is that the previously acceptable SD TV, VCDs are shown up to be the rubbish quality they are. The wife with her eagle eyes quickly asks why, and when it dawns on her that the choices are downsizing the beautiful panel she has just gotten used to or allow us to replace those crummy VCDs with DVD and perhaps even a brace of hi def disc, then the floodgates will open. The CFO is now on our side and the wallet is parted wide enough for the collection of beloved HD DVDs or BR discs to quietly replace those VCDs or fake discs got off the market place. Even amongst the regular DVDs, owing to the high quality of current generation panels they will show up all the defects of the poorer quality discs quite quickly and even the CFO will promptly admit to their shoddy quality. Thus the exodus to good DVDs and subsequently hi def will begin in average Joe's home. This is a much bigger wave than the small trickle us frontier folks can generate with our combined efforts. The average consumer will then push prices down and force the prices of hi def discs to fall to what we now pay for DVDs in the same way that the push for DVDs in such great volumes forced the price of DVDS to what we used to pay for VCDs. Power to the people and may they pave the way for more hi def. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetherock Posted July 30, 2007 Author Share Posted July 30, 2007 A quick survey of disc costs for BR and HD shows that you pay close to 40-50$ a pop. Average Joe with his mind pegged to the $8 R6 dvd from Giant is going to find that hard to swallow. This forms a significant obstacle to expanding the current pool of Hi Def adopters. A quick observation of the numer of owners on this forum shows that we may yet to reach 3 digits for owners of either formats. Here Sony and BR have got a new edge.... porn Yes in USA HD is the chosen format for this unsavoury means to increase the user pool, but in Japan, when they say Blue Ray, it is really BLUE.... http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,135222-c,dvdtechnology/article.html With a base of 4 million PS3, thats a big support base for the day disc costs fall to below $20. That along with the $500 mark for Disc players will be an important price point for adoption of Hi Def by the mainstream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AngMoh Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 A quick survey of disc costs for BR and HD shows that you pay close to 40-50$ a pop. Average Joe with his mind pegged to the $8 R6 dvd from Giant is going to find that hard to swallow. This forms a significant obstacle to expanding the current pool of Hi Def adopters. A quick observation of the numer of owners on this forum shows that we may yet to reach 3 digits for owners of either formats. Yes, it is widely thought, though by no means universally agreed, that high software pricing was the root cause of DVD-A and SACD's failure to replace CD. Both DVD-A and SACD were a significant step up in audio quality. Both formats were well backed by leading hardware and software suppliers. Manufacturers like Pioneer were very quick to bring out universal players which could play all formats (CD, VCD, DVD-A, DVD-V & SACD). Further, the multiformat chipsets became cheap quite quickly and so even low cost players could play some if not all of the formats [Oppo for example]. DVD-A/V ROM drives even found their way into laptop and desktop computers. BUT, software sales disappointed, they failed to scale past the interest of early adopters. Like HD, DVD-A and SACD content was a price premium above vanilla CD, ironically almost the same premium as we see today for SD vs. HD content. The general public aka Mr. Joe Citizen did not see the value of paying a premium for DVD-A or SACD content - even though he generally acknowledged the later formats were probably better and his player at home could actually play one of them. This in a nutshell is the challenge for HD. SD particularly today with free up-scaling disc players and LCD/Plasma TV's is actually good enough. To add insult to injury the mass public is confused over the format war. BR looks to be winning the war but Joe Citizen is afraid to commit to a format which might not have a mass market future. HD is a gamble. I for one hopes HD takes off - but i won't be committing any $$ to it until i see progress in several key technological and commercial areas. On the technology side i want to see ramping of HDMI 1.3 displays. These are only now being announced (/rolled out) and such displays are a step toward Color-Space and Deep Color support - which will maximise the capability of HD HDMI 1.3 players. When HDMI 1.3 displays become more mainstream many current HD players will be obsolete because their video engines are not good enough to support the billions of colors generated. On the commercial front i agree with you Pete, i want to see sub $20 disc costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varun1624705824 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 With all the talk about sub $20 prices for HD content, has anyone noticed that that's EXACTLY the price at which the vast majority of hd-dvd's are now being sold by amazon? $19.95. Bought myself a few. - V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetherock Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 I guess we are referring to SG$ bro ;) With all the talk about sub $20 prices for HD content, has anyone noticed that that's EXACTLY the price at which the vast majority of hd-dvd's are now being sold by amazon? $19.95. Bought myself a few. - V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest francis woo Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I think they are talking about SNG dollar not US............. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetherock Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 Anyway bro, your cost isn't USD 19.95, don't forget shipping, GST and censors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varun1624705824 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Buy enough and the shipping works itself out nicely. No GST below 400. And I haven't [yet] had a problem with censors - packages from amazon have always been delivered without issues. Plenty of DVDs purchased via this route. :-) Of course, there's always a first time. And now that I've spoken up, my superstitious self says "this will be it". ;-) - V. Anyway bro, your cost isn't USD 19.95, don't forget shipping, GST and censors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varun1624705824 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Then that's ridiculous, isn't it? How many GOOD DVDs can one find at sub S$ 20 prices? Why expect HD to be CHEAPER? Sounds like ranting for the sake of it, imho. - V. I think they are talking about SNG dollar not US............. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzone Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 sub $20 HDs locally? We prob got to wait for "R6" HDs... For US discs, even SDs are still $30/40+... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AngMoh Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Then that's ridiculous, isn't it? How many GOOD DVDs can one find at sub S$ 20 prices? Why expect HD to be CHEAPER? Sounds like ranting for the sake of it, imho. - V. I think the point that is being made is mass market adoption of HD requires software of comparable local pricing to SD. The mass market does not order its content from Amazon - it buys it from a local store, Giant, HMV or otherwise. Retail pricing in Singapore of HD (BR or HD-DVD) is circa SGD 40-50, though I've seen some new releases at an eye popping $70. On the other hand SD content varies from $8 [Giant's library] to new releases at about $30. The gap of averages needs to close or HD will become yet another enthusiasts only standard - which would be a great shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowhandman Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Buy enough and the shipping works itself out nicely. No GST below 400. And I haven't [yet] had a problem with censors - packages from amazon have always been delivered without issues. Plenty of DVDs purchased via this route. :-) that's my experience, too. in any case, i've never understood why some people here at XP seem to be so afraid of their packages being intercepted by the censors. most films pass clean nowadays anyway, so it's just a slight inconvenience to go and pick up your package. just make sure you have nothing obviously pornographic in your shipments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varun1624705824 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I think the point that is being made is mass market adoption of HD requires software of comparable local pricing to SD. The mass market does not order its content from Amazon - Fair enough. That said, it IS still early-days for HD and the product is NOT even in the "early-majority" stage of the PLC... barely out of the "innovator" stage and software prices are already so low (i.e. 19.95) that, even for a relative non-audio/videophile like me, the price is right. :-) I remember when DVD prices were 40 - 50 a pop, and this was YEARS after the introduction of the format. I remember when DVD players were 500 bucks for a CHEAP player - again years after introduction. In contrast, international prices of HD content and players have come down way way way quicker, reflecting, perhaps, the desperation of the two fora. Where the local market is concerned, I'm in broad agreement with opinions expressed here as well as other sites with more... ahh... "gravitas"... that a true take-off can only happen if manufacturers simply switch from making dvd players to one of the opposing formats. Until then, folks will keep buying SD players - they either don't "see" the difference, or don't value it, or have simply been misled into believing they've bought high def players ("yeah lor, came with hdmi-one... high-definition something something what"). Note that I'm omitting all the stuff about format wars - don't want to flog a dead horse in the interest of writing a treatise. ;) Cheers, - V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InnocentBlood Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Fair enough. That said, it IS still early-days for HD and the product is NOT even in the "early-majority" stage of the PLC... barely out of the "innovator" stage and software prices are already so low (i.e. 19.95) that, even for a relative non-audio/videophile like me, the price is right. :-) I remember when DVD prices were 40 - 50 a pop, and this was YEARS after the introduction of the format. I remember when DVD players were 500 bucks for a CHEAP player - again years after introduction. In contrast, international prices of HD content and players have come down way way way quicker, reflecting, perhaps, the desperation of the two fora. Where the local market is concerned, I'm in broad agreement with opinions expressed here as well as other sites with more... ahh... "gravitas"... that a true take-off can only happen if manufacturers simply switch from making dvd players to one of the opposing formats. Until then, folks will keep buying SD players - they either don't "see" the difference, or don't value it, or have simply been misled into believing they've bought high def players ("yeah lor, came with hdmi-one... high-definition something something what"). Note that I'm omitting all the stuff about format wars - don't want to flog a dead horse in the interest of writing a treatise. ;) Cheers, - V. good post :) don't forget the piracy factor - that will be a deciding factor too, especially in Asia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts