90cm Widescreen Crt At Kmart $699 ?

[Morien]

Anyone got any more info on this set?

I'm looking to buy a new tv and so this is on the list.

How's the colours, geometry, etc? It's difficult to find a crt this size nowdays

Thanks

Morien

[Dr. Zachary Smith]

There's a unit on display at my local Kmart. I know the guy at the Sound & Vison counter and he let me fiddle with the set-up to see if I could get a cleaner, more colorful and higher contrast picture. The set was hooked up to a SD digital box for WS.

The color was lousy, the sharpness ill-defined and the brightness/contrast adjustments did little to enhance the picture. Maybe it was just this particular set but I would make sure you are happy with your own unit, should you buy one, before chucking the box away...you might have to return it pronto!

[Miklos73]

I've learnt not to buy anything high-end electrical from K-mart. Do NOT buy your TV from there for starters.

I once paid $1200 for a 68cm telly made by Sanyo (this was in 1998). It was a horrible rip-off. Sanyo used to be a good name but not anymore! This set was rubbish, absolute rubbish. For one (and there were quite a few things) the picture 'bowed' when things got bright. I'd expect that from a 20 year old TV but not something I had just bought AND at this price!

[Dr. Zachary Smith]

These days, with so much product emerging from China of variable quality, it's hard to tell just what to buy and where to buy it from.

[extrameant]

There's a unit on display at my local Kmart. I know the guy at the Sound & Vison counter and he let me fiddle with the set-up to see if I could get a cleaner, more colorful and higher contrast picture. The set was hooked up to a SD digital box for WS.

The color was lousy, the sharpness ill-defined and the brightness/contrast adjustments did little to enhance the picture. Maybe it was just this particular set but I would make sure you are happy with your own unit, should you buy one, before chucking the box away...you might have to return it pronto!

I bought one of these and was quite pleased with it. Must admit the setup it came with was pretty bad. It was crawling with chrom/lum crosstalk and basically looked horrible as everything was overdone. We didn't really care, we only had a 14" portable and this was big! Took me about 15 mins playing with the menu to get it looking pretty good actually. Trial and error really. I haven't put on a test chart (I'm not that sad yet) but it amazes me how good the geometry of the scan is. I have set up monitors in a previous life.

The manual is useless and doesn't tell you what the various controls are for. for example you can select 60frame, 75, or 100. It works best on 60, god knows what this control is supposed to do. Maybe its a typo in the menu.

It says the resolution is greater than 350 horizontal lines and greater than 400 vertical lines. Its not a soft screen, about as good as any tv I've owned, so I wouldn't worry about trying to figure out what they mean. (Their specs would imply to me that its only capable of less than half standard definition.)

I got the deal they were doing with the surround sound thingy. It is pretty crappy, but it does the job. It really needs some tweeters in there. I think even my ears can still hear over 10khz.

Bad points about the telly, to me, are the weight and video input. I got this upstairs on my own, while it was still in the box, but it was really hard and I could imagine it flying down if I slipped. Had to get someone to help me lift it onto the stand anyway.

The video input blanks my video when it is on fast forward preview. I haven't tried the other video input to see if it has a better flywheel on the sync but I am into an input which is labelled video. I would imagine there is a hidden menu that would allow you to set this, but it seems like a fault to me. I'm not taking it back downstairs cos of this! A dodgy video with drop out is really annoying to watch cos th tv has a freeze frame feature so it keeps cutting in and it ends up looking like you are watching faulty digital TV. It works fine on a normal tape while its playing, and it is possible my video is faulty but it wouldbe a co-incidence cos it was working on the portable. I would buy another, for wht its worth.

[Dr. Zachary Smith]

I bought one of these and was quite pleased with it. Must admit the setup it came with was pretty bad. It was crawling with chrom/lum crosstalk and basically looked horrible as everything was overdone. We didn't really care, we only had a 14" portable and this was big! Took me about 15 mins playing with the menu to get it looking pretty good actually. Trial and error really. I haven't put on a test chart (I'm not that sad yet) but it amazes me how good the geometry of the scan is. I have set up monitors in a previous life.

The manual is useless and doesn't tell you what the various controls are for. for example you can select 60frame, 75, or 100. It works best on 60, god knows what this control is supposed to do. Maybe its a typo in the menu.

It says the resolution is greater than 350 horizontal lines and greater than 400 vertical lines. Its not a soft screen, about as good as any tv I've owned, so I wouldn't worry about trying to figure out what they mean. (Their specs would imply to me that its only capable of less than half standard definition.)

I got the deal they were doing with the surround sound thingy. It is pretty crappy, but it does the job. It really needs some tweeters in there. I think even my ears can still hear over 10khz.

Bad points about the telly, to me, are the weight and video input. I got this upstairs on my own, while it was still in the box, but it was really hard and I could imagine it flying down if I slipped. Had to get someone to help me lift it onto the stand anyway.

The video input blanks my video when it is on fast forward preview. I haven't tried the other video input to see if it has a better flywheel on the sync but I am into an input which is labelled video. I would imagine there is a hidden menu that would allow you to set this, but it seems like a fault to me. I'm not taking it back downstairs cos of this! A dodgy video with drop out is really annoying to watch cos th tv has a freeze frame feature so it keeps cutting in and it ends up looking like you are watching faulty digital TV. It works fine on a normal tape while its playing, and it is possible my video is faulty but it wouldbe a co-incidence cos it was working on the portable. I would buy another, for wht its worth.

How does it look with your DVD player or STB? Do you have these connected via component?

I looked at the display set in Kmart again today and it still looked very ordinary. I also checked out Kmart's "Audiosonic" brand 76cm widescreen telly on display. Remarkably, this had quite a good picture on component-in.

[extrameant]

How does it look with your DVD player or STB? Do you have these connected via component?

I looked at the display set in Kmart again today and it still looked very ordinary. I also checked out Kmart's "Audiosonic" brand 76cm widescreen telly on display. Remarkably, this had quite a good picture on component-in.

It looks pretty good to me with a STB or PC (which i use as a dvd/divx player) I just use composite. Non of the problems I get from the video (due to jitter) show up with those sources.

It seems to have quite a good demodulator as well.

I suppose its all relative as to how good it looks and what your standards are. I spent ten years as a broadcast engineer with bbc, then the last ten years working in digital tv transmission, so you could say I was a professional viewer. However, I've never been into expensive stuff at home and am happy with a picture as long as it hasn't transmission faults or bad artifacts I wasn't after high definition, just a big telly. The tv itself isn't producing noise or ringing, but it just looks like, well a telly, only widescreen. If quality is your goal, I'm sure you could do better, but it was a good price (think i got it for $500+) and in particular, I really dislike the look of plasma and lcd. I'm probably not a good person to comment on quality cos I'm a bit of a cheapskate but set my standards accordingly. Sharp edges do have fair bit of 'crawling' on them although it only becomes objectionable to me on its own menu, and I guessed they just haven't put a sinx/x filter on the character edges so its particularly bad here. This was an area that got a lot better after playing with the controls. It doesn't bother me at all on video, but its no grade 1 monitor.

Maybe i've just been lucky with mine though.

There are a lot of menu items like picture enhance, VNR, curtain etc which I just switched on and off until i was happy. A bit hit and miss and took a while. On its factory setup I thought I had made a big mistake (but i would have lived with it), but now I am very happy. Very oridinary does me

[Dr. Zachary Smith]

It looks pretty good to me with a STB or PC (which i use as a dvd/divx player) I just use composite. Non of the problems I get from the video (due to jitter) show up with those sources.

It seems to have quite a good demodulator as well.

I suppose its all relative as to how good it looks and what your standards are. I spent ten years as a broadcast engineer with bbc, then the last ten years working in digital tv transmission, so you could say I was a professional viewer. However, I've never been into expensive stuff at home and am happy with a picture as long as it hasn't transmission faults or bad artifacts I wasn't after high definition, just a big telly. The tv itself isn't producing noise or ringing, but it just looks like, well a telly, only widescreen. If quality is your goal, I'm sure you could do better, but it was a good price (think i got it for $500+) and in particular, I really dislike the look of plasma and lcd. I'm probably not a good person to comment on quality cos I'm a bit of a cheapskate but set my standards accordingly. Sharp edges do have fair bit of 'crawling' on them although it only becomes objectionable to me on its own menu, and I guessed they just haven't put a sinx/x filter on the character edges so its particularly bad here. This was an area that got a lot better after playing with the controls. It doesn't bother me at all on video, but its no grade 1 monitor.

Maybe i've just been lucky with mine though.

There are a lot of menu items like picture enhance, VNR, curtain etc which I just switched on and off until i was happy. A bit hit and miss and took a while. On its factory setup I thought I had made a big mistake (but i would have lived with it), but now I am very happy. Very oridinary does me

If you're happy, you're happy...that's the main thing. I think there's a lot of people on this board that become so particular about PQ that it becomes an obsession. Me, I'm a bit like you...as long as it's a good clear colorful picture I'm happy. I do use component-in but only because, on my CRT rear-pro, it offers the best definition and lowest signal grain.

So you worked at the venerable "Beeb"...now that would have been an experience worth a good sit-down chinwag at the local coffee shop, eating lots of bad-for-you cakes! If you live in Eastern Melbourne I'll shout you the coffee and cakes as long as you tell the stories! Just PM with your email (if you dare....!) :P

[extrameant]

If you're happy, you're happy...that's the main thing. I think there's a lot of people on this board that become so particular about PQ that it becomes an obsession. Me, I'm a bit like you...as long as it's a good clear colorful picture I'm happy. I do use component-in but only because, on my CRT rear-pro, it offers the best definition and lowest signal grain.

So you worked at the venerable "Beeb"...now that would have been an experience worth a good sit-down chinwag at the local coffee shop, eating lots of bad-for-you cakes! If you live in Eastern Melbourne I'll shout you the coffee and cakes as long as you tell the stories! Just PM with your email (if you dare....!)

I'm not really sure what the theory is behind going rgb into your tv as against letting your tv do the conversion, seeing as it starts off composite anyway? Its not exactly rocket science, very simple electronics, or am I missing something? To me, its just three expensive gold plated leads to buy. Mind you, the only gold plated thing i ever bought was my wife's wedding ring, so maybe I'm not the best person to ask.

I'll see if i can figure out the email thingy on this forum. I only really came across this forum cos i was looking for an engineering menu for a sansui 90cm widescreen tv and there's almost no hits except here!

[PaulP33]

I'm not really sure what the theory is behind going rgb into your tv as against letting your tv do the conversion, seeing as it starts off composite anyway?

Broadcast analogue may but DVD and broadcast digital don't do they?

[Morien]

Anyone know of a place in Perth that's showing these sets playing something?

Only seen it sitting on the shelf, off, with no signal plugged in.

[extrameant]

Broadcast analogue may but DVD and broadcast digital don't do they?

I should shut up cos I'm well out of it and I should've known better. Your right of course - I've been a transmitter engineer too long now! I suppose technically its YUV and not rgb, but same difference, three cables. Sometimes I worry about what I'm capable of saying! (i've looked it up and its not even YUV so I'm off to crawl under a rock )

Edited December 12, 2006 by extrameant

[Ian Norman]

It really depends on what someone considers "Composite" to be.

The video signal from the TV Station is sent through a Microwave Dish or more likely several and then depending on the station it might well go to a satellite before being transmitted via Analog or Digital.

Even if it left the TV station in YUV it's still modulated/demodulated several times and whether we like it or not it's combined ( sort of like Composite ).

There has never been anything wrong with Composite as long as it's done correctly. Sadly Composite Video out on consumer devices are usually less than perfect ( to save costs )

No doubt YUV ( S-Video), RGB etc are likely to provide better performance on most equipment.

As for DVD who knows what processes have occurred during the transfer from Film to DVD.

[extrameant]

It really depends on what someone considers "Composite" to be.

The video signal from the TV Station is sent through a Microwave Dish or more likely several and then depending on the station it might well go to a satellite before being transmitted via Analog or Digital.

Even if it left the TV station in YUV it's still modulated/demodulated several times and whether we like it or not it's combined ( sort of like Composite ).

There has never been anything wrong with Composite as long as it's done correctly. Sadly Composite Video out on consumer devices are usually less than perfect ( to save costs )

No doubt YUV ( S-Video), RGB etc are likely to provide better performance on most equipment.

As for DVD who knows what processes have occurred during the transfer from Film to DVD.

Thanks for trying to make me feel better, but I'm staying under my rock!

I know its hard to beleive now, but transmission was the area i spent 8 out of the last 10 years, making a living, all microwave, satellite, into dtt and analogue. Although the signal will get demodulated from RF occasionally, it would normally only go as far as ASI which is just a media for MPEG transport streams. Sometimes it will get remultiplexed (and even transrated which will make the quality worse) but it should really stay as MPEG on a dtt system from encoder to STB. For most tv companies, the quality available at home should be the same as that coming out the encoder.

When the MPEG transport stream is modulated into RF, it is a completely lossless system, so you get the same out at the far end. Digital in, digital out. There is so much error correction that the overall system can cope with the any errors introduced by what is effectively analogue RF transmission. (Rf can only be analogue, no matter what you modulate it with). I'm just going to pull the rock back over my head and wait to get shown up again

[Ian Norman]

Thanks for the update of the transmission techniques.

The end result whether Analog or Digital is still governed by the original source material. If it starts out looking a bit rough then it will end up just as rough. ( or worse ).

I'm sure there will be users who have questions - so stick around

Cheers

[extrameant]

Thanks for the update of the transmission techniques.

The end result whether Analog or Digital is still governed by the original source material. If it starts out looking a bit rough then it will end up just as rough. ( or worse ).

I'm sure there will be users who have questions - so stick around

Cheers

What you say couldn't be truer. The worst offender is anything thats been over satellite cos bandwidth is still expensive it gets compressed to pieces and is often taken back to analogue. News and sport that gets sent about a bit are the worst. Something that looks reasonable but is then re-encoded can completely lose it over even a 14Mb link, just the final straw as it were. I've seen tennis matches where you can't see the ball! Its usually impossible to say who has done the damage if its a source thats been around a bit, because as I said, its not always the last encode/decode. Some encoders now carry the information used to encode the material the first time, so it can be matched again and not lose so much the second time, if that makes sense. It was all proprietry though so needed the same encoder manufacturer again. That was all a couple of years ago, i've no idea whats happening now, but my guess is it hasn't got any better.

I tried to PM Dr smith, but I'm not allowed to use the facility.

[Ian Norman]

It's amazing how bad some of the satellite can be. Not only can they make a mess of the video, the sound can be rather odd as well.

I guess there are quite a few old satellites up there with analog technology that are still being used and of course they try and squeeze as many channels through them as possible - hoping the end user doesn't notice the bad quality.

Maybe you will have to wait until you have posted a certain number of times before you can use some facilites - I'm not sure - Perhaps someone else will know.

I'll be at Kmart tomorrow so I'll check the Sansui 90cm out again and see if I can find the remote so I can play.

I would have bought one but when I saw the jittery motion on a horizontal pan I had second thoughts.

cheers

[extrameant]

It's amazing how bad some of the satellite can be. Not only can they make a mess of the video, the sound can be rather odd as well.

I guess there are quite a few old satellites up there with analog technology that are still being used and of course they try and squeeze as many channels through them as possible - hoping the end user doesn't notice the bad quality.

Maybe you will have to wait until you have posted a certain number of times before you can use some facilites - I'm not sure - Perhaps someone else will know.

I'll be at Kmart tomorrow so I'll check the Sansui 90cm out again and see if I can find the remote so I can play.

I would have bought one but when I saw the jittery motion on a horizontal pan I had second thoughts.

cheers

I haven't noticed the jitter on fast pan. In fact its the motion on LCD displays that I hate, so that would annoy me. I would bet any shop video distribution system would be very dodgy, and maybe what you were seeing was the same thing I get on a bad vhs tape, where the still frame seems to cut in.

I don't think theres many analogue satellites still about for tv occasional use. Old satellites start to wobble and become useless because you need to track them so much. They keep the last of their fuel to propel them into the atmosphere so they don't hit new ones. Analogue systems also needed a very powerful earthstation, typically 10~20 times the power of a digital system (maybe 600~1200W of microwave into a 2m dish for SNG) Certainly the tv companies all use digital on satellite now cos it uses so much less bandwidth and is cheaper. They also compress video to sometimes 2~4Mb/s for news items, and because it gets many encode/decode cycles, it looks terrible. using 4:2:2 (to allow post production) really needs a minimum of 13Mb/s for reasonable quality, so they use 4:2:0 cos it looks better at low bit rate, but then you lose half your color resolution every encode regardless of how much bitrate you use..

respectable tv companies will often pay for higher bandwidth, but on sources that have come from where ever they can get them, its often too late. I used to work as an SNG engineer and although more recently I did an APEC as a contractor using digital stuff, I used only analogue in the bbc. With the gain of the dish, it worked out about 10MW EIRP, from memory. Burn holes in seagulls, so it would.

Edited December 14, 2006 by extrameant

[Ian Norman]

I finally got to Kmart to check the Sansui out and although I didn't get the remote so I could play with it properly I noticed the jittery movement was only present on one channel.

They use an RF distribution system so perhaps there is interference on the system causing the problem.

I still want to see the sansui up against a 76cm palsonic or TEAC before I decide.

One Kmart store has the 76cm sets but no Sansui and the other Kmart store just has the Sansui. It's hard to believe 2 Kmart stores can be so different.

Anyway, I'll keep visiting the stores, I might get lucky one day.

If the Plasma's keep going down in price I might end up with one as I certainly couldn't handle seeing the shimmer that follows all moving things on an LCD. ( though some LCD's are better than others. )

10 Mega Watts EIRP would definately generate serious sunburn. Put a Pie in the wave guide and it should be heated in a few seconds.

I still have a scar from an RF burn I got 25 years ago from a 25w VHF transmitter. I was trimming the antenna for SWR. I was putting the rubber tip back on and slipped, the antenna stuck in palm of my hand and I accidentally hit the PTT button - the rest is history.

Cheers

[Jakob1503561058]

Took me about 15 mins playing with the menu to get it looking pretty good actually. Trial and error really. I haven't put on a test chart (I'm not that sad yet) but it amazes me how good the geometry of the scan is. I have set up monitors in a previous life.

I have just bought one myself, however im not having much luck getting a good picture. Could you perhaps tell me what setting you have used for yourself?

Also i noticed that it shows 1080 in the info menu.....is this really a HD tv? If it is, does the HD set top box have to be connected via the VGA port or just by the RCA ports?

Edited January 14, 2007 by Jakob

[technocat]

A tube size of 36" would equate to around 91cm. 86cm TVs generally have a 36" tube size.

90cm eh! must weigh a ton I used to own a 76cm NEC widescreen and it came in at around 80 kilograms

[thx_surround_ex]

ok im new to this i was just wondering if it is true flat i dont if its pure is it flat not a oval screen behind a plat cover is the screen flat

[wheelz]

ok im new to this i was just wondering if it is true flat i dont if its pure is it flat not a oval screen behind a plat cover is the screen flat

Its flat

[achjimmy]

reveiw this set well it has a less than perfect PQ imo.

[thx_surround_ex]

ok im new to this i was just wondering if it is true flat i dont if its pure is it flat not a oval screen behind a plat cover is the screen flat

so it flat as in its not a oval screen behine a plastic flat panle???

reveiw this set well it has a less than perfect PQ imo.

whats an "IMO" im a sound geek but picture im not so good at and do you guys mean with geo problems??? all i have ever owned has been a hand me down 68 cm sony and that uses a trinitron tube not evan a engin like now days