gqst Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 (edited) Hey guys, Am new here but have been reading the forum quite a bit before posting. Was wondering about inbuilt HD tuners vs external HD set top boxes. I remember going into HN and talking to a salesman while looking at the LG plasma with inbuilt HD tuner. He mentioned that the problem with this plasma is that it can receive HD signals but is not able to output HD signals so if for example I wanted to record HD tv I would be better off getting a plasma without an inbuilt tuner and getting an external HD set top box. So my question is (more like questions) , is this really true and are there really no LCDs or plasmas out there that do output HD signals ? And if this is the case then I must have an external HD set top box to be able to record. And how do I go about recording HD tv ? Get a set top box with HDD and recording function ? Or use HTPC ? Also, if what the salesman says is true then why bother coming out with LCDs or plasmas that have inbuilt HD tuners and not be able to record the HD programs ? Isn't it better to get one without and just get an external set top box instead ? Anyone with experience with the above care to share their experience ? Thanks in advance. Edited March 1, 2006 by gqst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgdownload Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Hi GQST, Basically the salesman was correct, As far as I know all TVs with inbuilt digital tuners don't let you 'forward' the signal to a recorder. A STB will. Keep in mind that this signal we are talking about is actually analogue - a STB translates the digital signal in to analogue and passes it to the TV. The signal is still crystal clear becase its only analogue for the last metre. An inbuilt HD tuner possibly never gets converted to analogue so avoids even that? Not sure on that one. As to why they don't provide an output, possibly it saves a bit of money but I'd suspect you'll also find that copy protection laws are involved in there somewhere. As for recording HD, keep in mind that its pretty pointless on any machine at the moment as you effectively have to compress (or use a poorer medium, like VCR Tape) the picture quality. HD TV is transmitted at around 8Gig an hour. A DVD (for instance) holds much less than that. You're better off simply recording SD to a DVD Recorder, etc. Also keep in mind that when you output a signal from a STB to (say) a DVDR or other analogue recording device you have to make sure that both the STB and the Recorder are on the same channel - a bit fiddly) There are machines called PVRs (a STB with a harddrive) which record digital TV exactly as broadcast. IMO they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Currently there is only one HD model (J35 for $1300 odd) and it hasn't had a good track record. Much better value for money and more reliable are the SD models ($200 to $900). There will be a few new HD models out shortly though ($1400+) Have a read in the digital recorders section, specifically the pinned stuff (All Questions Answered) and (DVDR v PVR) Regards Peter Gillespie PS As a possible suggestion you can geta TV with an inbuilt HD tuner and a seperate SD PVR. Use the HD for watching live TV and the PVR for recording stuff to watch later. Be warned though that (again IMO) PVRs make FTA TV much more enjoyable that simple HD. Pausing live TV, skipping ads, (7 day EPG on one PVR model), etc. is addictive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopstar Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Hey guys,Am new here but have been reading the forum quite a bit before posting. Was wondering about inbuilt HD tuners vs external HD set top boxes. I remember going into HN and talking to a salesman while looking at the LG plasma with inbuilt HD tuner. He mentioned that the problem with this plasma is that it can receive HD signals but is not able to output HD signals so if for example I wanted to record HD tv I would be better off getting a plasma without an inbuilt tuner and getting an external HD set top box. So my question is (more like questions) , is this really true and are there really no LCDs or plasmas out there that do output HD signals ? And if this is the case then I must have an external HD set top box to be able to record. And how do I go about recording HD tv ? Get a set top box with HDD and recording function ? Or use HTPC ? Also, if what the salesman says is true then why bother coming out with LCDs or plasmas that have inbuilt HD tuners and not be able to record the HD programs ? Isn't it better to get one without and just get an external set top box instead ? I am aware that the LG doesnt record digital only analog. Im not sure whether its just LG or across all brands. HTPC is I think the best way forward. Currently there are some bugs in the software with Tv tuner cards but most are getting ironed out. The bugs occur mainly when the PC is multi tasking.I have devoted my PC solely to TV DVD and Music until all software becomes stable. So far I havent had a problem fingers x Anyone with experience with the above care to share their experience ? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter D Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Keep in mind that this signal we are talking about is actually analogue - a STB translates the digital signal in to analogue and passes it to the TV. The signal is still crystal clear becase its only analogue for the last metre. Peter, are you having a bad day? A DVI/HDMI signal coming from a STB is still digital. If this is passed to a digital display such as LCD/Plasma it never goes to analogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebble1503560447 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Yep it's true, just been through all that myself, and in the end I ended up getting a hd tv and a Topfield5000t. It has twin tuners and already seeing heaps of benefits to having a pvr. Will have to figure out how to get some recorded files to my husbands laptop though so he can watch it at work. In the future - don't know how soon, they will be coming out with tv's with built in tuner & hard drive 160gb or something, now that would be worth buying. For reference I think it was on beyond 2000 last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgdownload Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Peter, are you having a bad day? A DVI/HDMI signal coming from a STB is still digital. If this is passed to a digital display such as LCD/Plasma it never goes to analogue. Thanks for the clarification PeterD (And yes, I am hyped up on Demazin ) I was more looking to address the suggested case of 'recording HD' and in which case you are always recording an analogue signal. As far as I know all SD STBs don't have HDMI connections but most HD STBs do. [Edit: re-read my post in this area and it was confusing. Hopefully clearer now] I assume that an inbuilt tuner effectively keeps the signal digital, but wasn't willing to categorically suggest that they don't still contert it back to analogue (inside the TV set). Would seem unlikely though. Regards Peter Gillespie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colindale Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 (edited) Yep it's true, just been through all that myself, and in the end I ended up getting a hd tv and a Topfield5000t. It has twin tuners and already seeing heaps of benefits to having a pvr. Will have to figure out how to get some recorded files to my husbands laptop though so he can watch it at work.In the future - don't know how soon, they will be coming out with tv's with built in tuner & hard drive 160gb or something, now that would be worth buying. For reference I think it was on beyond 2000 last night. Is this what you are looking for?. Description of LG 50PX4DR: The LG 50PX4DR is a 50" Plasma Integrated HDTV with built-in Digital Video Recorder (DVR), which requires no subscription or phone line connection and enables recording from cable or antenna to built-in 160 GB hard disk drive.The LG 50PX4DR features LG's Exclusive XD Engine - Six distinct processes contribute to picture improvement. LG's XD Engine takes the low resolution of analog signals to near HD levels by improving brightness, contrast, detail and enhancing color as well as reducing signal noise. This total solution results in cinema like high-resolution images.Image Sticking Prevention provides protective measures to minimize damage as a result of stationary logo's. Damn LG has done it again!. Edited March 2, 2006 by colindale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 I doubt we'll get that model in Aus.... Anyway my ideal setup would be an proper HD tv (1920 x 1080) with built-in HD tuner, with a Toppy 7000 twin HD tuner running Icetv. That way if the Toppy ever shat itself, you could still watch digital tv. Unfortunately neither such beast exists yet....well the Toppy definitely not, maybe some rear-pro tvs out there but that's not what I'm after. So still we wait...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanh Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 All, I hope that there is a suggested change of HD standards from MPEG2 to MPEG4. This will mean there could be 2 full HD channels + SD channels from a single transmitter. If the standard is changed then it is much easier to change an STB than a whole TV. AlanH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesc Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 ...it is much easier to change an STB than a whole TVAbsolutely. Keeping things separate IMO is nearly always a better idea. The more you bundle things up, the more likely you back yourself into a corner ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavoNogo Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 All,I hope that there is a suggested change of HD standards from MPEG2 to MPEG4. This will mean there could be 2 full HD channels + SD channels from a single transmitter. Would be nice if they could provide us with at least 1 full HD channel... seriously, 1080i @ 11mbit/s doth not make HD.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gqst Posted March 2, 2006 Author Share Posted March 2, 2006 Thanks for the feedback everyone, appreciate it. So if the plasma/lcd that I buy has an inbuilt HD tuner then is it still worth it to get an HD set top box with PVR functions ? Not sure if there's a big difference between the SD STB with PVR vs the HD one. Is it really worth the difference in price ? After figuring all this out, then I'm going to have to find the model that I really would like to fork out on. I really like the Sony bravia 40" 'V' series. Seems to jump out at me all the time when I'm in the stores. The price is the only thing that's keeping me from jumping in and taking the plunge. Trying to convince myself that its worth the money .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgdownload Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 We'll there is currently only one HD PVR on the market ($1200+). I've confirmed the Good Guys will sell you the new LG HD PVR for under $1000 (due for release in a few weeks). If you get a HD Twin Tuner PVR then there's no point in paying more for a 3rd inbuilt tuner. If you get a SD Twin Tuner PVR (like a Toppy or Humax ($600)) then you MIGHT want a inbuilt HD tuner for watching the odd show live with). If you get a cheap ($250) single tuner SD PVR (HD ones don't exist) then you will DEFINATELY want a inbuilt HD tuner on the TV. You'll have to decide how the dollars stack up in this - I would suggest that getting a big HD TV is only half the picture. Its when you add in a PVR (SD or HD) that you really start to have some fun watching digital FTA. NB: The Bravia Vs are very well regarded on this forum. Good luck deciding. Peter Gillespie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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