Dropbear1503559515 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 It's proving to find Radeon 9000 or 9200 series of video cards for sale now in Australia. It's either the SE range of cards or the 9600+'s which are too expensive to justify for TV out only. So, I'm looking at the FX5200 or the FX5600 range of cards for well under $200. Will they do DxVA properly? is there Tv-OUT of good quality? I will only be using S-Video or Composite so I don't need to worry about component connections etc. If I can get away with a FX5200 128MB DDR AGP TV OUT for $79 I will be well pleased. Alternatively, if someone has a 9200 or 9000 Radeon they're busting to get rid of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireball1503559639 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 In terms of sheer power, the GF 5200 series is a minnow, unworthy of purchase in this era. Take a look at the Radeon 9xxx series. They (the Radeons) do support DxVA, and put the 5200 to shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropbear1503559515 Posted January 29, 2004 Author Share Posted January 29, 2004 Perhaps you misunderstand me. I don't want to play Doom 19 at 19273 Frames Per Second. I want to use a Hardware Accelerated Overlay to watch Digital TV and DVD. I don't need screaming demon 3D performance. If I had the dosh to drop on a 9800XT AIW etc etc I would, but I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarDrifter Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 I'm also in the same boat. Out to find a video card to replace my GeForce4 MX440 I'm set on getting a Radeon, and not nVidia. I don't need video out as I am using it to watch DVD and Digital TV from nebula on my 19" monitor. So I guess my question is whether I need to splurge on a 9600 or not .. as I have no intention of playing games. If we were to do a comparison for PURELY DVD and DTV purposes ... how would 9600XT vs. 9200SE compare. And how would GeF FX5200 compare with the 2 Radeons for the same purposes. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireball1503559639 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Sorry! I did not mean to imply that you would want to use the card for D3D. I am just saying that the GFFX 5200 is a disappointment to most, while the cheap Radeons shine, and support DxVA. StarDrifter: do you really feel the MX440 is insufficient? I have no problems with it, using the Nebula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza223 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 People i have a GF FX5200ep and it is good at playing games and for watching tv the graphics on it are the best and the cost for that card is $112.00 and you can get it from a online computer store Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damirski Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 I have a Radeon 9200SE and it is fine for HTPC and only $80. The TV output is heaps better than my old nVidia MX440. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaladvisor Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 It's proving to find Radeon 9000 or 9200 series of video cards for sale now in Australia. It's either the SE range of cards or the 9600+'s which are too expensive to justify for TV out only.So, I'm looking at the FX5200 or the FX5600 range of cards for well under $200. Will they do DxVA properly? is there Tv-OUT of good quality? I will only be using S-Video or Composite so I don't need to worry about component connections etc. If I can get away with a FX5200 128MB DDR AGP TV OUT for $79 I will be well pleased. Alternatively, if someone has a 9200 or 9000 Radeon they're busting to get rid of One very good reason for purchasing a Radeon is its Rage Theatre superior encoding for PAL interlaced. I am getting virtual screens on the Tv is resolutions of upto 1600 * 1200. Why? Well I hate the skinny ultra wide screens on some Divx movies. I have done extensive tests on nvidia TV out and Radeon. You will be surprised just how well Radeon's render MPEG, DivX, Xvid and how it seems to remove MACRO blocking on software decode. Another thing is its extensive optimisation you can do on the Video overlay to suit your TV, gamma, brightness, darkness, flicker, sharpness, overscan, dot crawl removal, colour correction, resize function, ability to push to PAL to 60hz if your TV supports it are numerious reasons. It's deinterlacing is superior. The DXVA implementation far superior to entry FX. All backed by worldwide region detection of video standards without courseness in PAL encoding inherit in some nvidia PAL encoding chips that are prone to interference and frequency disturbance. The saying is ..you only get what you pay for. Even my nVidia fanatic son has had to admit superior TV ouput of movies and SD HDTV. Regards DA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrr Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 It's proving to find Radeon 9000 or 9200 series of video cards for sale now in Australia. It's either the SE range of cards or the 9600+'s which are too expensive to justify for TV out only. I just did a quick check at the Umart web site (Sydney / Brisbane / Gold Coast stores) and they are selling Radeon 9200 128 Meg dual display / tv out / DVI cards for $132. I buy most of my gear through them as their Sydney store is relatively close to me, but they also do mail delivery if you live elsewhere. http://www.umart.com.au/newindex2.phtml?bid=3 regards, jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocujos Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Dropbear, The entry level 128 Mb Sapphire Radeon 9200SE with TV-Out here in Melbourne costs $71 (MSY). The entry level 128 Mb Winfast A340 costs $99. We all know by now that ATI cards are far superior than Nvidia for HTPC applications. ATI has been making HTPC specific cards (All in Wonder series in particular) for a number of years and have the most experienece in this field. The choice is yours. I would personally buy a Gigabyte Radeon 128Mb 9200SE w/TV for $86. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guerny Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 I used to use a matrox card and found its image quality far superior to anything else at that time... Is this still the case? has anyone tried the tv out on the latest matrox gear? Also dont forget the new S3 card (chrome-something) is due out soon, supposed natively supporting most TV resolutions and has built in image "make better-ness" in it. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaladvisor Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 I used to use a matrox card and found its image quality far superior to anything else at that time...Is this still the case? has anyone tried the tv out on the latest matrox gear? Also dont forget the new S3 card (chrome-something) is due out soon, supposed natively supporting most TV resolutions and has built in image "make better-ness" in it. G One issue others have found with Radeon its hardware assisted in MPEG when it comes to HD is superior when DXVA is enabled with the VP card software. As well it aren't a bad performer with 3D games on a 9200. As for interlaced MPEG SD I don't have the ghosting framing mistakes but it comes down to the quality Video Codec software. DVI-D is in proper spec as well whilst almost all nVidia failed in bandwidth testing on DVI-D output. Regards DA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropbear1503559515 Posted January 29, 2004 Author Share Posted January 29, 2004 I have a matrox G400 card presently and I KNOW that the Radeon/NVIDIA cannot compete with that card on 2D picture quality, but unfortunately it's not capable of rendering HDTV. I have heard reliable reports that the quality of TV out on the SE models of the Radeon is INFERIOR to the normal 9200's or the PRO's. I also know that many stores are advertising 9200's or 9200 PRO's but I cannot find any that have them in stock.. I will try UMART. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaladvisor Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 I have a matrox G400 card presently and I KNOW that the Radeon/NVIDIA cannot compete with that card on 2D picture quality, but unfortunately it's not capable of rendering HDTV.I have heard reliable reports that the quality of TV out on the SE models of the Radeon is INFERIOR to the normal 9200's or the PRO's. I also know that many stores are advertising 9200's or 9200 PRO's but I cannot find any that have them in stock.. I will try UMART. If I find a Matrox G400 card at a flea market I'll buy it and see the differences for myself. I have a great deal about this this interlaced argument about Matrox quality. I have a Radeon 9100 Sapphire 128MB DDR (which is really a true blue 8500). But the argument is NOT to compare a Radeon to a nVidia PAL encoders. I have seen the differences myself and it is like night and day. There is for me a huge difference. And I went through almost five nvidias and was still unhappy with TV encoding. There are two factors to consider: The Physical hardware encoding of PAL and for it to be free of freq interference, colour bleed and be rich in colour dynamic and respond correctly to video overlays, be dynamic in dot crawl removal, flicker settings and be highly responsive to specific resolutions otherwise not tolerated by Windows graphic card manufactuers such as 720 * 576 true pixel scaling. The other factor is the EFFECTIVE removal of MACRO BLOCKING, artifacts, gamma interaction with MPEG presented on a Video overlay and fast H/W assisted acceleration on MPEG 2 without micro studder in the frames and fast panning scenes. As I play all SD / HD and DVD on LARGE screen Sony Trinitron (80cm) till make entry to widescreen HD sometime this year, I can honeslty say that SVHS is of most high quality in my experience in day to day use. Regards DA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chargin8 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Im just about to buy a 9200 and you have sparked my interest in saying "I have heard reliable reports that the quality of TV out on the SE models of the Radeon is INFERIOR to the normal 9200's or the PRO's." Is there a common consensis on this? if so whats the cheapest 9200 around worth buying online?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropbear1503559515 Posted January 29, 2004 Author Share Posted January 29, 2004 If I find a Matrox G400 card at a flea market I'll buy it and see the differences for myself. I have a great deal about this this interlaced argument about Matrox quality. It's worth doing for interests sake.. the actual quality of the windows desktop even over Composite on 800x600 on my Sony Wega 68cm is pretty damn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koops Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 "I have heard reliable reports that the quality of TV out on the SE models of the Radeon is INFERIOR to the normal 9200's or the PRO's." I'm in the same boat. I've orded a vp card (still waiting for it to arrive) and in the mean time have been looking at the 9200 but i've only found the SE versions around. Anyone care to comment on the differences? Also, what is the minimum spec cpu for using this 9200 with a VP card? My main pc is an athlon xp @ 2.3ghz BUT I have another pc which is something like a 1.3(?)ghz celeron that I would rather use and free my athlon for its normal life of gaming. The digitalnow site says "1.7Ghz minimum (HDTV) " can anyone confirm if this is in reference to having DXVA enabled? [EDIT] ok i found this info myself elsewhere .. Even low end cards like ATI9200 have hardware decode assist. I have a dual head (VGA, svideo, DVI) s-media ATI9200. Cost around $120. With DXVA enabled, I can view HD (ABC) on a P4 celeron 1.7GHz at around 45% CPU usage. http://robdvd.radfiles.net/posting.php?mode=quote&p=3150 This would suggest that its using about 1ghz on that particular celeron. So it would seem that i *might* be able to get away with running chan 9 HD on a 9200 running with DXVA on my 1.3ghz celeron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil McCavity Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 I've got an "s-media" radeon 9600 with TV out (although the word "gigabyte" appears on some of the software) and so far the quality of the TV image is a poor second to my old Matrox G450eTV or my lappy (which has some kind of nvidia geforce video with TV out). I'm still fishing for suggestions on improving the tv-out quality on the radeon. The main problem is lack of colour saturation on the TV although it's fine on the monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darulezy Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 hi dropbear, Nobody actually seems to have answered your original question regarding the fx5200. firstly, there are some manufacturers that really stuffed up the use of what is a good nvidia chip, I use an ASUS V9520 Magic and for the price I have found it to be a top performer and with games it gives me a reasonable frame rate. I also have an Avermedia DVB-T card and when I'm not watching it on the PC's monitor I set the FX5200 to clone mode and use the composite output to feed a 2.4GHz wireless audeo/video transmitter, with the receiver on the tv, the tv can be moved anywhere in the house without the need to run cables, picture quality is acceptable with small writting being slightly blurred (ie SBS subtitles are readable my 48cm TV). The FX5200 has some options to control the overlay, but I dont bother with those, there are those who like to tweak and those who like to sit down and just watch, me being the former. The only complaint is that 3:4 programs have a black border all the way around the screen, the overlay zoom function can fix this, but then you lose the edges on a 16:9 screen (but I recon thats more a problem for avermedia and not the fx5200) Note: If you're after the perfect picture, you can tweak all you like but in the end, a crap TV is just a crap TV (I'd like a 42" plasma with some digital wireless connection to and from my PC, I like dreaming too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarDrifter Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 what is the difference between the gigabyte 9200SE and the sapphire 9200SE that is sold at MSY? Is it worth the extra $15 for a gigabyte? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocujos Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 what is the difference between the gigabyte 9200SE and the sapphire 9200SE that is sold at MSY? I don't really know how good the Sapphire cards are (they manufacture cards for ATI as well) but I know that Gigabyte cards are of very high quality. Power Color are crap, I wouldn't touch them. A friend of mine bought a Power Color card some ago and the fan on it started making funny noises sfter a few days. That tells me a lot about their quality. Three of my friends have Gigabyte Radeon cards and they are all very happy with them, never gave them a single problem. You get what you pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpeant Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Nvidia cards all have vastly different quality tv-out, which is why Radeon are generally better than Nvidia for TV-out. So, it depends on what TV-out chip your Nvidia FX uses. I know that Nvidia cards with the CONEXANT CX25871 TV-out chips are the best. I have already posed this question in the main forum, but I think the it boils down to this... How does the CONEXANT CX25871 TV-out chip compare to that of Radeons? If the Conexant CX25871 TV-out is as good or better than Radeons, then get a Nvidia FX with this chip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Mess Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 I have an NVidia Geforce4MX with full HDTV hardware assisted playback. The FX5200, FX600, and FX5800 are lacking nVidias Video Processing engine, so not near as good for video. See my post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anarchi Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Major_Mess, I guess a GeForce256 wouldnt have HDTV hardware assisted playback right? A bit off topic, but while on the subject of 3D cards, check out this 64kb 3D demo, quite amazing for such a small file - they managed to squeeze 1.9GB of data processing into 64KB. If only this was possible for MPEG2 streams Download: http://www.back2roots.org/Get/Zoom%203%20-...Generation%2C1/ Site: http://www.back2roots.org/Demos/Files/Zoom%203/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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