thewaves Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I heard this at Munich and thought it was bloody marvelous: http://www.monoandstereo.com/2017/04/analog-domain-m75d-mkii-integrated.html If you are looking at that kind of money there are lots of options... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob181 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 @thewaves...Cough.... The quoted retail price would equate to $32541.00 approx AUS if imported direct.... That is a LONG way north of the $10 - $14 k quoted here for the Accuphase or Esoteric... For those kind of $'s I would look at Vitus Class A... T&A latest 3000 series looks like the poor mans' Analog Domain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewaves Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 @Rob181 It can be had for less than that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob181 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 14 minutes ago, thewaves said: @Rob181 It can be had for less than that... And at what price roughly would equate to "less than that"... PM me with the info if that makes it easier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted July 11, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted July 11, 2017 12 hours ago, Impulsessz said: Besides Esoteric any other recommendations ? Sanders Magtech go the monoblocks if you want to splurge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted July 11, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) Double post Edited July 11, 2017 by Sir Sanders Zingmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob181 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 8 hours ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: Double post Well there are two of them... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 @Impulsessz I appreciate the technical discussion on the theoretical merits of mosfets and BJT etc but I would never write off any amp purely on the basis of theoretical technical advantages. Going on this basis there should be no market at all for tube amps. I have tried enough amps to know that they all sound different and that the only way to be sure is to try it with your actual speakers. There is no way I would spend this sort of cash without trying it or at least having the option to return it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryphongryph Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Totally agree, finding it strange to decide against and amp, because of mosfets!!!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impulsessz Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, gryphongryph said: Totally agree, finding it strange to decide against and amp, because of mosfets!!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I thought most decent gear utilised MOSFET's in there designs anyway . Maybe I'm mistaken ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impulsessz Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 Just now, Impulsessz said: I thought most decent gear utilised MOSFET's in there designs anyway . Maybe I'm mistaken ! It was more of a concern due to my choice of speakers not so easy to drive sensitivity findings after review/testing. As quoted "I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby Grand SE's frequency response in the farfield, and an Earthworks QTC-40 for the nearfield responses. Vienna Acoustics specifies the Baby Grand's sensitivity as a very high 91dB. My estimate was significantly lower, at 86.5dB(B)/2.83V/m. The impedance is specified as 4 ohms, and while the average magnitude in the midrange and below is indeed 4 ohms, the impedance drops to 2.3 ohms at 90Hz (fig.1, solid trace), a frequency where music has high energy. The impedance also remains above 5.5 ohms for the entire treble region. Fortunately, the electrical phase angle remains relatively benign, but I would still recommend a good 4 ohm–rated amplifier to drive this speaker."Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/vienna-acoustics-beethoven-baby-grand-symphony-edition-loudspeaker-measurements#Q9ZS8lwcJmwVClRv.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted July 12, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted July 12, 2017 47 minutes ago, Steam said: There is no way I would spend this sort of cash without trying it or at least having the option to return it. Sanders offers a 30 day trial period and covers postage both ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Steam said: @Impulsessz I appreciate the technical discussion on the theoretical merits of mosfets and BJT etc but I would never write off any amp purely on the basis of theoretical technical advantages. Going on this basis there should be no market at all for tube amps. I have tried enough amps to know that they all sound different and that the only way to be sure is to try it with your actual speakers. There is no way I would spend this sort of cash without trying it or at least having the option to return it. 4 hours ago, gryphongryph said: Totally agree, finding it strange to decide against and amp, because of mosfets!!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk No, there's nothing wrong with Mosfets at all, in fact there are some damn fine sounding Mosfet amps, but look at what it has to drive, when your looking at this sort of load with these speakers. A BJT has a far better chance of reaching Audio Nirvana than a Mosfet has. Mosfet will still sound good with it, but you'll never know just how good they may sound, unless you get on the upgrade merry go round again. Cheers George http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/125373-esoteric-v-accuphase/?do=findComment&comment=1873205 Edited July 12, 2017 by georgehifi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 4 hours ago, Impulsessz said: It was more of a concern due to my choice of speakers not so easy to drive sensitivity findings after review/testing. As quoted "I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby Grand SE's frequency response in the farfield, and an Earthworks QTC-40 for the nearfield responses. Vienna Acoustics specifies the Baby Grand's sensitivity as a very high 91dB. My estimate was significantly lower, at 86.5dB(B)/2.83V/m. The impedance is specified as 4 ohms, and while the average magnitude in the midrange and below is indeed 4 ohms, the impedance drops to 2.3 ohms at 90Hz (fig.1, solid trace), a frequency where music has high energy. The impedance also remains above 5.5 ohms for the entire treble region. Fortunately, the electrical phase angle remains relatively benign, but I would still recommend a good 4 ohm–rated amplifier to drive this speaker."Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/vienna-acoustics-beethoven-baby-grand-symphony-edition-loudspeaker-measurements#Q9ZS8lwcJmwVClRv.99 All good solid work. But the only real way to be sure is to try it. I would be astonished if the Accuphase you were interested in had any problem driving them. Same for the Esoteric. They are both quality amps. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Steam said: I would be astonished if the Accuphase you were interested in had any problem driving them. We keep coming back to this, yes it will most probably still sound very good. But with this type of load, the safer bet to squeeze the very best bass out of these speakers would be the Esoteric. Cheers George 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impulsessz Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 33 minutes ago, georgehifi said: We keep coming back to this, yes it will most probably still sound very good. But with this type of load, the safer bet to squeeze the very best bass out of these speakers would be the Esoteric. Cheers George I understand where your coming from George. Before purchasing the Vienna's i'de audition the focal Electra's and to get the very best out of them there were some amps better suited to achieving this than others. Cheers Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) As I think I mentioned before, this would be a good BJT integrated with that load also, and it's the Swiss Army Amp, got everything you need in it. Phono MC/MM DAC ESS Sabre 32 also does DSD if your into it. Remote Electronic crossover circuit is a secret weapon that will improve the performance of any loudspeakers you own when you’re also using a subwoofer. Head-Phone amp http://www.avhub.com.au/product-reviews/hi-fi/parasound-halo-amplifier-review-test-438388 Cheers George Edited July 12, 2017 by georgehifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impulsessz Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 43 minutes ago, georgehifi said: As I think I mentioned before, this would be a good BJT integrated with that load also, and it's the Swiss Army Amp, got everything you need in it. Phono MC/MM DAC ESS Sabre 32 also does DSD if your into it. Remote Electronic crossover circuit is a secret weapon that will improve the performance of any loudspeakers you own when you’re also using a subwoofer. Head-Phone amp http://www.avhub.com.au/product-reviews/hi-fi/parasound-halo-amplifier-review-test-438388 Cheers George Got it..could you explain the below in layman's terms Internally, as you’ve probably already guessed from its size and weight, the Halo uses a tried-and-tested Class-A/B bipolar output stage, although the driver stage uses MOSFETs and the input stage uses JFETs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Impulsessz said: Got it..could you explain the below in layman's terms All FETS Mos-fets(metal–oxide–semiconductor Field Effect Transistor), Hex-fets, (Hexagonal Field Effect Transistor.) J-fets (junction Field Effect Transistor), BJT (Bi-Polar Junction Transistor) The basics inside an amp: 1: FETS & also BJT's are great for the "input stage" of an amp as they drive a known easy load of the "driver stage" 2: FETS & also BJT's can also be great for the "driver stage" they also drive the known easy load of the "output stage". 3: But the "output stage" sees the outside world of speakers with there varying impedance and - phase angle loads, never flat and some very nasty. Cheers George Edited July 12, 2017 by georgehifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryO Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, georgehifi said: We keep coming back to this, yes it will most probably still sound very good. But with this type of load, the safer bet to squeeze the very best bass out of these speakers would be the Esoteric. Cheers George I'm not surprised by the findings in the Stereophile report on the BBG's but relatively speaking the VA Baby Grands are quite easy to get decent base out of, it's the bigger sibling the Concert Grand that is a real struggle, that much so that depending on what style of music being played I often have to use a sub with mine to get reasonable results, don't need a sub with the BBG's in comparison. Please pardon the iPad low res photo of a Baby Grand and Concert Grand together. cheers Terry Edited July 12, 2017 by TerryO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impulsessz Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 3 hours ago, TerryO said: I'm not surprised by the findings in the Stereophile report on the BBG's but relatively speaking the VA Baby Grands are quite easy to get decent base out of, it's the bigger sibling the Concert Grand that is a real struggle, that much so that depending on what style of music being played I often have to use a sub with mine to get reasonable results, don't need a sub with the BBG's in comparison. Please pardon the iPad low res photo of a Baby Grand and Concert Grand together. cheers Terry I've often thought of purchasing a decent valve amp as opposed to s.s. but don't know with changing valves and bias etc. Much like owning a British sports car v German. You know the Germanic 1 will get the job done (albeit mundanely) but the British 1 (when running) will reward you with a far more involving charactiful experience ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted July 12, 2017 Volunteer Share Posted July 12, 2017 I'm no expert on these matters, but it strikes me that if your speakers present a difficult load, valves may not be a good match 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Impulsessz said: I've often thought of purchasing a decent valve amp as opposed to s.s. One step backwards from Mosfet, re driving your speakers. 4 hours ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: I'm no expert on these matters, but it strikes me that if your speakers present a difficult load, valves may not be a good match +1 on this Cheers George Edited July 12, 2017 by georgehifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) If you want Class-A @ 100Watts there this for sale, comes with a forklift. Cheers George http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/132265078200 http://www.gryphon-audio.dk/media/1495/dm100.pdf Edited July 18, 2017 by georgehifi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 57 minutes ago, georgehifi said: If you want Class-A @ 100Watts there this for sale, comes with a forklift. Cheers George http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/132265078200 http://www.gryphon-audio.dk/media/1495/dm100.pdf Yep. One of a VERY, VERY tiny number of amps that are claimed to be 100 Watts Class A, that actually delivers on the promise. 70-odd kgs, as I recall. I serviced a couple a few years back. Very nicely built and with enough heat sinking to sustain a full 100 Watts Class A per channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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