Well tempered classic

[michaelw]

20 minutes ago, Citroen said:

Interesting the Amadeus wasn't as good as your WT.

 

In what ways?

 

my sample of the gta wasn't as well built and there are some dumb design "features" like the three independent towers for the arm - the original arm was much easier to set up and adjust.

lesson learnt as the newer ltd arm has support, arm fluid pot and arm rest on the same platform.

the faux lemo connector for the arm cable has gone too.

not a fan of the small motor and diy belt either.

sonically there wasn't anything in it but the amadeus did not sound any better.

the whole thing smacks of a exercise in cost cutting.

 

topshelf;

the original well tempered was plinth was built in nz, using several slabs of mdf separated by a mystery goop (that eventually softens and causes the slabs to mis-align).

the amadeus is built in china with mdf plinth, the gta has acrylic and aluminium.

[Happy]

18 hours ago, TOPSHELF said:

 

That is outrageous and sad David. I hope all is well mate..... Have you gone digital?

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Practically yes. I'm just not into audio much these days, and vinyl is just a little too finicky when you're not interested.

[mloutfie]

I'm ordering this counterweight for the well tempered would be interesting how it will change the sound http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/WELL-TEMPERED-Tonearm-XTC-Upgrade-Counterweight-NON-EU-EXPORT-PRICE/401056618706?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[TOPSHELF]

Ooohhhh waits with anticipation.@mloutfie how do you find the bias adjustment on the classic arm?

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[Happy]

Just to spice up the excitement of the WT owners, the designer/owner of the Calyx DACs once commented that as far as the audio source players go there's Well Tempered and everything else.

[mloutfie]

29 minutes ago, TOPSHELF said:

bias adjustment on the classic arm?

I just leave it at minimum. with my cartridge tracking at 1.6gm the balance sounds right to me

[TOPSHELF]

Same here but at 1.8g for the MP500, everything sounded very good until i put it through the hifi test record and I'm getting a slight distortion on the lower frequencies through one channel.

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[mloutfie]

2 hours ago, TOPSHELF said:

Same here but at 1.8g for the MP500, everything sounded very good until i put it through the hifi test record and I'm getting a slight distortion on the lower frequencies through one channel.

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Slightly reduce silicone level might help if not reduce the viscosity of silicone. That also control the antiskate bias from what I've read

[mloutfie]

@TOPSHELF how's your belt tension? It appears to be really important because of how the bearing is designed to have the right tension to keep the platter from wobbling. Mine is supposed to be newly replaced but doesn't seem to have enough tension. I have to distance the motor from the table quite a bit like this photo to get the right tension. I use 40w motor oil for the bearing well and the level is just enough to cover the top plastic bearing point.

[TOPSHELF]

Hi@mloutfie that belt looks stetched i am able to sit my motor slightly inside of flush to the plinth. I changed my belt about 4 months ago and bought it off ebay for a very reasonable price. They also recommend to have a twist in the belt either side of the pulley leading to the plinth.

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[mloutfie]

34 minutes ago, TOPSHELF said:

Hi@mloutfie that belt looks stetched i am able to sit my motor slightly inside of flush to the plinth. I changed my belt about 4 months ago and bought it off ebay for a very reasonable price. They also recommend to have a twist in the belt either side of the pulley leading to the plinth.

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Yeah I stretch it to get platter stability. Looks like actually I used 15w-40 oil and the recommendation seems to be 5w. What kind of oil do you use? Might try different oil. Mind taking pictures of the twist?

[TOPSHELF]

Yes i will take some pics tomorrow. When you say platter stability what do you mean?
If i remove the belt the platter will happily sit level until i touch it and then it always tips down to the right.
When i completely dismantled the deck including the bearing i accidentally put the female part back in the wrong orientation. From memory there are two grub screws on the shaft that can be screwed in and out one is higher than the other. These sit at 90 degrees to each other and i have mine located at 8 o'clock and 11 o'clock as you are stood facing the tt from the front the one at 11 o'clock is the higher one. I adjusted these grub screws so the spindle sits perfectly perpendicular in the hole when the platter is removed. It also means i put sideways pressure on the platter towards the 9 o'clock position when tightening the puck on a record.
I'm not sure what the oil is but it seems thin.
There is also another larger grub screw at the base of the same female housing which i replaced the ptfe tape on. This stops the oil from leaking and tightening the grub screw lifts the male spindle that fits within thus lifting the platter.
When you remove the platter what does the spindle do? I think maybe the grub screws need adjusting to make it sit perfectly plumb within the female housing?
Also what is the orientation of your grub screws? If you gently roll the spindle around in the housing 360 degrees you will feel where there is play and where it holds firm. Is the spindle perfectly vertical when it holds?
I'll have a look for that spare belt as there was nothing wrong with it more i wanted to have everything new after the re-build. I'm happy to post it.
Hope this helps.

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[mloutfie]

53 minutes ago, TOPSHELF said:

When you say platter stability what do you mean?
If i remove the belt the platter will happily sit level until i touch it and then it always tips down to the right.

Well it's will sit flat with no belt like yours but when the platter is spinning (by the motor) I just notice it today because I put it in the rack so the platter is on my eye level. It actually wobble to the right when spinning, back and forth from my experiment moving the motor around it seems the belt doesn't have enough tension to hold the platter still.  That's why on the picture if I put the motor further away thus tensioning the belt more then the platter became stable while spinning. 

 

1 hour ago, TOPSHELF said:

These sit at 90 degrees to each other and i have mine located at 8 o'clock and 11 o'clock as you are stood facing the tt from the front the one at 11 o'clock is the higher one. I adjusted these grub screws so the spindle sits perfectly perpendicular in the hole when the platter is removed. It also means i put sideways pressure on the platter towards the 9 o'clock position when tightening the puck on a record.

The Grub location sounds about right but how do you adjust the screw? do you take of the bearing housing? But I think as it stand pretty sure the spindle can stand in the hole perfectly without the platter.

 

1 hour ago, TOPSHELF said:

Also what is the orientation of your grub screws? If you gently roll the spindle around in the housing 360 degrees you will feel where there is play and where it holds firm. Is the spindle perfectly vertical when it holds?

It's the same at 8/11 o clock spindle also perfectly flat with platter on and without the belt put on so it looks all good stationary. 

 

My feeling keeps points to belt tension considering the platter is stable when I put the motor further away. which ebay store did you get your belt from? Thanks a lot for all the info 

 

[mloutfie]

Here's some pics of the spindle and platter without belt attached

[Guest Runaway]

Below is a pic of the twist in the belt.  I am also interested in the ebay store for the belt.  Below is a page from the manual with the WT which states that the belt is specially made (the only "high tech" component of the WT) and also described the twist.

After almost a year with the WT, I finally disassembled the tonearm and replaced the fluid.  Made quite a few errors along the way but learned a lot too.  

 

1. Gloop everywhere and appears in the strangest places.

2. I put the fishing lines back wrong and anti skating became anti-antiskating.  Should have checked before replacing the fluid as it is a real pain tying to thread the line back through two tiny holes.  From underneath.  With glasses.  While trying to avoid a mess.

3. I overfilled the bowl.  The fluid flows so slowly that it looks fine...it looks fine... it's too late.  Should not have done it in 1 go.  Almost impossible to remove the fluid even with the biggest syringe I have. 

4. My WT (thank to whoru) came with 2 platter - the acrylic and a grey one made of strange material.  I had the grey one allwt.pdfwt.pdf along and decided to swop to the acrylic one.  I think the acrylic one sounds brighter but I'm still in the process of tuning it.

[mloutfie]

Emptied the bearing well and checked the 5 bearing points looks good. Also took a video of the platter wobble. Was trying to find 5w oil on the way back home but couldn't find any. But my gut feel is still the belt.

 

Here's the video https://ufile.io/qxu53

[WhoRu?]

Guys,

 

Last time I checked Well Tempered in NZ has a stash of old belts for the older WT tables...  

 

They also have a conversion kit for the old motors so you can use the polyester thread like the new WT tables.

 

Edited July 24, 2017 by WhoRu?

[mloutfie]

56 minutes ago, WhoRu? said:

Guys,

 

Last time I checked Well Tempered in NZ has a stash of old belts for the older WT tables...  

 

They also have a conversion kit for the old motors so you can use the polyester thread like the new WT tables.

 

Might contact them and ask the cost

[WhoRu?]

3 hours ago, Runaway said:

Below is a pic of the twist in the belt.  I am also interested in the ebay store for the belt.  Below is a page from the manual with the WT which states that the belt is specially made (the only "high tech" component of the WT) and also described the twist.

After almost a year with the WT, I finally disassembled the tonearm and replaced the fluid.  Made quite a few errors along the way but learned a lot too.  

 

1. Gloop everywhere and appears in the strangest places.

2. I put the fishing lines back wrong and anti skating became anti-antiskating.  Should have checked before replacing the fluid as it is a real pain tying to thread the line back through two tiny holes.  From underneath.  With glasses.  While trying to avoid a mess.

3. I overfilled the bowl.  The fluid flows so slowly that it looks fine...it looks fine... it's too late.  Should not have done it in 1 go.  Almost impossible to remove the fluid even with the biggest syringe I have. 

4. My WT (thank to whoru) came with 2 platter - the acrylic and a grey one made of strange material.  I had the grey one allwt.pdfwt.pdf along and decided to swop to the acrylic one.  I think the acrylic one sounds brighter but I'm still in the process of tuning it.

 

Grey platter comes from the Well Tempered Reference

[TOPSHELF]

I've just had a look at the video and if you watch your spindle it doesn't move at all. I think the platter is warped?
I have the same opaque platter and it is slightly concave if you put a straight edge across the whole thing you will see a gap that becomes greater towards the spindle. This dishes the vinyl when you tighten the puck and is meant to be like this. Do you own a set square? If you square off the edge of the platter and across the centre hole i bet there will be a height difference at the two edges at some point if you rotate the square through 360 deg.
Your pics look like you have the twist correct.

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[mloutfie]

13 hours ago, TOPSHELF said:

I've just had a look at the video and if you watch your spindle it doesn't move at all. I think the platter is warped?
I have the same opaque platter and it is slightly concave if you put a straight edge across the whole thing you will see a gap that becomes greater towards the spindle. This dishes the vinyl when you tighten the puck and is meant to be like this. Do you own a set square? If you square off the edge of the platter and across the centre hole i bet there will be a height difference at the two edges at some point if you rotate the square through 360 deg.
Your pics look like you have the twist correct.

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If would take a considerable amount of force to warp an acrylic that thick so doubt it. Also if it's warped it would still wobble if I tension the belt by putting the motor far away. Which it doesn't wobble if I do that. I still think it's the belt we'll see how the replacement goes

[Guest Runaway]

@mloutfie I have trying to download the video but cannot view it (not paying the $5 for faster download).  Quite intrigued by the wobble.  Like @TOPSHELF I have the motor very close almost in line.  Where are you in Vic - if close by, I can bring my belt to try it on.

[TOPSHELF]

For the video just wait a couple of mins.... still looking for my spare belt here..... I moved house a month ago and we are still unpacking!

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[Guest Runaway]

Managed to download the video.  The whole platter is wobbling which does suggest that either the spindle is not aligned properly or the belt is at fault.  I had a VPI Scout where the belt was slipping and the instruction from VPI was to boil the belt for 30 sec (which apparently tightens the belt), dry and dust with talcum powder - which I did and it worked.  I do not suggest that for the WT belt unless you feel you have nothing to lose by it.  Again, happy to drop by with my WT belt to see if that makes a difference if you are not too far away.

[AKY]

Three things to try.

1) Clean the belt with a bit of dish soap and rinse thoroughly or use a bit of isopropyl alcohol.  It is easy to get some of the silicon fluid on the belt and it will slip. 

2) Check the level of the bearing cup.  I had to bang my out and shim the edge.

3) Make sure the platter is seated properly.