Doggie Howser Posted May 29, 2009 Author Posted May 29, 2009 On 29/05/2009 at 9:24 AM, DJQ said: wah... like that abit over kill liao. i got gold plated bannana jacks. if dun terminate. the silver will oxidise over time leh. pure silver banana jack??? :o ok i am dumb founded. Silver oxide is still a good conductor.
Doggie Howser Posted May 29, 2009 Author Posted May 29, 2009 Picked this SACD up today The first half of the album were already in my various CDs, but the second half consisted of songs I hadn't heard before. In particular, her cover/duet of All The Way with Frank Sinatra was very very very good. The second half of the songs seemed to have been mastered specifically for the SACD so the quality seemed better too. Only downside is that it is a pure SACD disc. No hybrid CD layer :( so can't rip into iTunes for my portable gear. Aaaaargh. It does have a multichannel layer. hehe can't wait to try it out on the Oppo.
RabPaul Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 On 29/05/2009 at 1:47 PM, Doggie Howser said: For hifi, I think the guidelines for cables/cords/interconnects are about 20% of the other components which is about what the Silversmiths bring it to. From what I recall, the Stereophile review of the Silversmith Silver speaker cables partnered it with speakers of comparable price range as mine. In fact, the reference cables the reviewer was using (Nordost Valhalla) was even pricier than the Silversmiths ;) And Audio's system? way pricier than mine hehe. There is no guideline as to what the cost of your speaker cables should be. I use Analysis Plus Oval 8 which I think are pretty exorbitant coming close to 25% of the Thiels, but then I felt the Thiels deserve the best that I could afford. You probably think the same way. All I am suggesting is there has to be some resonableness when it comes to speaker cables, they just cannot be more expensive than any other component in your system. BTW Monster and QED are just not in the same class as the Thiels. As for the reviewer, its expected for him to have the best cables he can lay his hands on given the quality of speakers he will review. Quote I'm looking for a pair of factory terminated cables to go with my 2.4. I am currently using Kimble 8TC and Belden balanced cables. Any recommendation below $800 for 2m pair? Prefer transparency with solid bass. I have used Kimber 4TC for many many years and still use them for my sub. IMO you won't find anything better in the price range you are looking at. Do audition first before you part with your money. Beldon's don't belong in any system with Thiels like the other brands mentioned above. Do look at better interconnects, you may even prefer something from Kimber.
Doggie Howser Posted May 30, 2009 Author Posted May 30, 2009 On 30/05/2009 at 10:24 AM, RabPaul said: There is no guideline as to what the cost of your speaker cables should be. I use Analysis Plus Oval 8 which I think are pretty exorbitant coming close to 25% of the Thiels, but then I felt the Thiels deserve the best that I could afford. You probably think the same way. All I am suggesting is there has to be some resonableness when it comes to speaker cables, they just cannot be more expensive than any other component in your system. BTW Monster and QED are just not in the same class as the Thiels. As for the reviewer, its expected for him to have the best cables he can lay his hands on given the quality of speakers he will review. I have used Kimber 4TC for many many years and still use them for my sub. IMO you won't find anything better in the price range you are looking at. Do audition first before you part with your money. Beldon's don't belong in any system with Thiels like the other brands mentioned above. Do look at better interconnects, you may even prefer something from Kimber. One of my friend's runs a pretty expensive Kimber speaker cable that costs more than his current set of speakers. He's planning to get the Harbeth 30th Anniversary next and I think the cable still costs more ;) I had the QEDs left over from my old setup (Quad606 with B&W601S2s) and I never realized how much of a limitation that was. As for budgets, I do agree that the 20% is merely a guideline. I know of guys who wouldn't blink about spending 6 figures on cables, interconnects, power cords and conditioners which is about the same cost as their existing gear. I think the point is, there's always going to be a limiting factor in your setup. Getting the Silversmith just meant that the limiting factor is somewhere else now. I could have upgraded the REF1000s to Mk II for slightly more money, but I feel the money wouldn't have been justified while the QEDs were still in the system. Luckily, I managed to get a pre-owned set of Silversmiths for a bit more than what the HGA X32s would have cost me to import.
DJQ Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 On 29/05/2009 at 5:05 PM, Doggie Howser said: Picked this SACD up today The first half of the album were already in my various CDs, but the second half consisted of songs I hadn't heard before. In particular, her cover/duet of All The Way with Frank Sinatra was very very very good. The second half of the songs seemed to have been mastered specifically for the SACD so the quality seemed better too. Only downside is that it is a pure SACD disc. No hybrid CD layer :( so can't rip into iTunes for my portable gear. Aaaaargh. It does have a multichannel layer. hehe can't wait to try it out on the Oppo. i got the normal CD version. but SACD? wow, so it comes with multi channel? recently got a SACD mega movies soundtrack by Telarc / Cincinnati pops orchestra. Quest has got me listening into more complicated music genre, so trying some orchestra music while still going for tracks that i like. :)
DJQ Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 On 29/05/2009 at 2:53 PM, Jagdpanzer said: I'm looking for a pair of factory terminated cables to go with my 2.4. I am currently using Kimble 8TC and Belden balanced cables. Any recommendation below $800 for 2m pair? Prefer transparency with solid bass. hi bro. interested to get this? silver rating 6N. i have onhand 10metres. you want to be the 1st to try? at 2m pair it costs only $400 just bare wire alone. i havent got time to cut and terminate yet. DIYstraits mentioned not to terminate them so might be trying them bare 1st. New Item!!! Iego 7 x 0.5mm PUM Pure Silver Wire ( can be use for speaker wire or interconnect ) ( Priced at $50 for 1metre ) Produce from official silver mine of Swiss Bank Silver coins - Norway Kongsberg Silver Mine EHPLC - OCC Uni-Crystal Pure Silver US Military Standard UV-Cut Polycarbonate Jacket
Jagdpanzer Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 Thanks DJQ. Where is your cable from and what's the brand?Please pm me your contact so that I can try a pair. I always find silver strands a tad bright. That's why I replace my Kimber Silver Streak interconnects with Belden because of the brightness from solid state setup. I'm curious what cables Thiel use for their lab or demo.
DJQ Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 On 30/05/2009 at 4:17 PM, Jagdpanzer said: Thanks DJQ. Where is your cable from and what's the brand?Please pm me your contact so that I can try a pair. I always find silver strands a tad bright. That's why I replace my Kimber Silver Streak interconnects with Belden because of the brightness from solid state setup. I'm curious what cables Thiel use for their lab or demo. er perhaps you didnt see the info i posted. brand is IeGO. made in Taiwan. silver mined from Norway. hehe. whats the brand of the last silver you tried? this one has 7 strands of 0.5mm. very solid core pressed. oh bro you need spk wires or interconnects? IeGO 7 x 0.5mm PUM Pure Silver Wire ( can be use for speaker wire or interconnect ) Produce from official silver mine of Swiss Bank Silver coins - Norway Kongsberg Silver Mine EHPLC - OCC Uni-Crystal Pure Silver US Military Standard UV-Cut Polycarbonate Jacket
Doggie Howser Posted May 30, 2009 Author Posted May 30, 2009 On 30/05/2009 at 4:17 PM, Jagdpanzer said: Thanks DJQ. Where is your cable from and what's the brand?Please pm me your contact so that I can try a pair. I always find silver strands a tad bright. That's why I replace my Kimber Silver Streak interconnects with Belden because of the brightness from solid state setup. I'm curious what cables Thiel use for their lab or demo. A lot of "silver" branded cables are actually silver plated copper cables. That explains the brightness. I have found that good silver cables aren't bright ;) http://www.stereophile.com/accessoryreviews/605silversmith/ Other silver options you can consider are Audio Magic. MusicLinkAV was having a sale of an entry level silver cable but it was a bit too short for my requirements. http://www.echoloft.com/cgi-bin/buysell2/YaBB.pl?board=hifi&action=display&num=1243664261&start=0 Quote Model: Excalibur 2 silver interconnect UP:$400.00/each. Now:$299.00/1.0m each. Length available:1.0m Quantity available: 2 pairs left Model: Excalibur 2 silver speaker Cable UP:$1200.00/pair. Now:$699.00/1.8m pair. Length available:1.8m Quantity available: 1 pair left
DJQ Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 pure silver core using 2x the orginal of the IeGO 7x05mm speaker cable. RCA jacks is pure Silver plated. this is my personal demo piece which is only 0.5m definitely not bright at all. in fact very enaging. :)
Doggie Howser Posted May 30, 2009 Author Posted May 30, 2009 On 30/05/2009 at 3:48 PM, DJQ said: i got the normal CD version. but SACD? wow, so it comes with multi channel? recently got a SACD mega movies soundtrack by Telarc / Cincinnati pops orchestra. Quest has got me listening into more complicated music genre, so trying some orchestra music while still going for tracks that i like. :) Yeah Telarc was also one of the pioneers of the CD genre. I am still trying to remember if my first CD was Telarc's Star Tracks (Kunzel with the Cinc Pops) or Madonna's True Blue ;) I haven't found an SACD from Telarc which had the Star Track's brilliant compilation.
Doggie Howser Posted May 30, 2009 Author Posted May 30, 2009 On 30/05/2009 at 4:37 PM, DJQ said: this is my personal demo piece which is only 0.5m definitely not bright at all. in fact very enaging. :) Bro, you can try the rhodium over silver LOK RCA plugs from HGA. AVIT also has them ;) LOK™ Silver Point RCA 7.5mm $24.90 each The ultimate RCA connector! Features a center contact pin machined from hard drawn 4-nines solid silver rod. Its beautifully machined connector body is first plated with solid silver and then replated using high purity rhodium. Count on this premium locking barrel design to provide a secure connection in any system. Extra-heavy Teflon insulation is used throughout. Down to its laser-etched logo, this connector was designed for the ultimate in performance. HGA also has similar grade banana/spade connectors for speaker cables
user053009 Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 Hi, just to share personal experience regarding speaker cables. As someone posted earlier, for an audiophile, there is no set % range for cables, whatever opens up the "spigot" for all associated components to get the most pristine signals to the transducer is what will work. That said, here are some things I have discovered. After collecting a high-res system (incl. the CS3.7), I tried cables ranging from Tara Labs' The Zero to Cardas to MIT to Nordost Valhalla to Monster to heavy gauge Belden (US 8-, 10-gauge) cables. These were all loans from dealers of course. Each switch in cable type resulted in immediate sonic changes, some bad, some surprisingly good. This experience showed the importance of using a high quality cable. I will suggest that when possible, try to compare a high quality heavy gauge (US 8, 10) cable against another more specialized speaker cables. If there are no audible differences, then there is no need to spend more than necessary. Happy Listening!
Doggie Howser Posted May 30, 2009 Author Posted May 30, 2009 Another reviewer who had to endure the torment of running in ;) http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue43/thiel.htm Perhaps to add on to user053009's comments... do the cable audition/swaps after running in ;)
Wymun Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 Hi Doggie, Must share with you something today...:-) Likewise, I had originally subscribed to the 20% budgeting guideline for cables, where my thinking centered upon key components (i.e. source, pre-amp, amp, speakers) to produce the most cost-effective returns for high fidelity sound. Afterall, the logic of paying S$5k for an amplifier vs S$1k for an speaker cable, should be reasonable, considering the plethora of embedded electronics, switches, etc, once can see in an amplifier (c.f. just strands of cabling). I guess this forms a rational and logical basis, especially for newbies (without any pre-existing equipment), to embark on one's Hi-fi journey. But today, was a special day for me... ::) :o As it so happened, about a week ago, I was most privileged to have purchased a set of Nordost Valhalla power cords from an audiophile (with years of experience and $$$$$$ of equipment), where after the initial transaction, we kinda became friends and he offered to help me tweak / find out the weakest link in my system... ::) :P Today, he brought over some of his "spare" cables and accessories to try and realize the full potential of my components. This included a S$8k power conditioner, vibration reduction / isolation cones, Crystal Dreamline and Ultra interconnects, Audionote's top-line silver speaker cables, Crystal Dreamline and Reference power cords, etc. The cables and power cords alone, would have cost me around 1.5 times the cost of my Hi-fi components... :o :-* We put in one cable / accessory at a time. Each time, I could hear a noticeable improvement in fidelity. By the end of the session, when all the cables / accessories were in, I could only marvel at the sound I was getting with my system. The soundstage was much larger than I had ever heard before, the background dead quiet, audio dynamics and crispness was there with full-bodied penetration, and it was as if the speakers had disappeared, but sound was coming from everywhere. It was a total transformation to my system and not simply an improvement - achieved merely by changing out the cables / cords predominantly (i.e. power delivery and signal communication), albeit to much higher-grade ones. Previously, I would have thought such dramatic improvement could only be derived through changing out components, considering my original cables are already decently spec-ed! Personally, it was simply euphoric to savor and revel in how good my system could sound with simply upgrading the cabling... So with today's performance, I have been converted to confess wholeheartedly, that cables are just as important as each individual component... ::) :D ;) Do note that I'm not implying that one needs to spend more / as much in cabling vs components, but simply that one should regard both cables and components in the same category of importance - the pursuit of returns is for cables that perform as well as, or only just short of, much higher-priced ones... Speaking with him after the session, he revealed how many people often overlook the importance of cables and simply splurge $$$ on new components, expecting revelatory changes in the process. More often than not, if one already has decent components, they usually don't form the bottleneck to good fidelity, and are already more than capable of produce some amazing sound. Cables are often under-estimated, and classified as an unappreciated tweak. Especially for power cables, he recommends to get the best, simply because once you purchase them, you probably can keep them for years to come with other component upgrades in the future. I think this is because good clean power delivery isn't as sensitive as interconnects, that require proper matching and power delivery doesn't affect the sonic signature as much... Oh well...Think my next upgrades will be centered on getting some good cables... :-X ;) :) Just sharing my experience.... :) On 29/05/2009 at 1:47 PM, Doggie Howser said: I have found that cables make a huge difference in headfi. I spent almost 2x the price of the Livewires custom IEM to get the Crystal cables and never regretted it. IMHO, the Crystal/Livewires combo was even more impressive than the pricier UE11Pro in terms of clarity and detail. There was a huge veil lifted off the Livewires. My Senn HD650 custom cables cost abt 1/2 the price of the cans and was worth every penny. For hifi, I think the guidelines for cables/cords/interconnects are about 20% of the other components which is about what the Silversmiths bring it to. From what I recall, the Stereophile review of the Silversmith Silver speaker cables partnered it with speakers of comparable price range as mine. In fact, the reference cables the reviewer was using (Nordost Valhalla) was even pricier than the Silversmiths ;) And Audio's system? way pricier than mine hehe.
Doggie Howser Posted May 30, 2009 Author Posted May 30, 2009 Bro! You sound very poisoned! hehe... So what did you get in the end? Heh.. what you paid for your pre-owned Nordost Valhalla power cord could have bought me the pre-owned Silversmith with a lot of change! ;)
DJQ Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 On 30/05/2009 at 4:45 PM, Doggie Howser said: Bro, you can try the rhodium over silver LOK RCA plugs from HGA. AVIT also has them ;) LOK™ Silver Point RCA 7.5mm $24.90 each The ultimate RCA connector! Features a center contact pin machined from hard drawn 4-nines solid silver rod. Its beautifully machined connector body is first plated with solid silver and then replated using high purity rhodium. Count on this premium locking barrel design to provide a secure connection in any system. Extra-heavy Teflon insulation is used throughout. Down to its laser-etched logo, this connector was designed for the ultimate in performance. HGA also has similar grade banana/spade connectors for speaker cables Damn DH, now i gotta go buy all the Pure Solid Silvers!!! >:(
Jagdpanzer Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Do you have the website of leGO silver cables. I kept getting Lego bricks in Google and Yahoo. A published review of the cables will be nice. On 30/05/2009 at 4:27 PM, DJQ said: er perhaps you didnt see the info i posted. brand is IeGO. made in Taiwan. silver mined from Norway. hehe. whats the brand of the last silver you tried? this one has 7 strands of 0.5mm. very solid core pressed. oh bro you need spk wires or interconnects? IeGO 7 x 0.5mm PUM Pure Silver Wire ( can be use for speaker wire or interconnect ) Produce from official silver mine of Swiss Bank Silver coins - Norway Kongsberg Silver Mine EHPLC - OCC Uni-Crystal Pure Silver US Military Standard UV-Cut Polycarbonate Jacket
Doggie Howser Posted May 31, 2009 Author Posted May 31, 2009 On 31/05/2009 at 1:42 AM, Jagdpanzer said: Do you have the website of leGO silver cables. I kept getting Lego bricks in Google and Yahoo. A published review of the cables will be nice. the letters (in lower case) are i e g o first letter is not not lower case 'L' even so, you'd be hard pressed to find mainstream reviews of this brand. Most are just WTS ads. I think it is a hobbyist/DIY cable. There is a review of the power cords in headfi forums. There was a noticeable improvement upgrading from the stock power cords to the iego power cords in my setup (I changed 5 at one go). As for the speaker cables, have not seen any reviews. If you are serious, sometimes it's worth bringing in as much as your current gear to the seller's place (to test the gear). The easiest is to bring just the component you want to replace (eg speaker cables) and swap between yrs and the one you are considering.
Kopi Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Quote I use Analysis Plus Oval 8 which I think are pretty exorbitant coming close to 25% of the Thiels Good choice. I have tried the Nordost Red dawn, Cardas Golden reference..but in the end, I am still sticking to Analysis Plus Oval 8. Factory fabricated 12m run pair. ;D
DJQ Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 On 31/05/2009 at 2:39 AM, Doggie Howser said: the letters (in lower case) are i e g o first letter is not not lower case 'L' even so, you'd be hard pressed to find mainstream reviews of this brand. Most are just WTS ads. I think it is a hobbyist/DIY cable. There is a review of the power cords in headfi forums. There was a noticeable improvement upgrading from the stock power cords to the iego power cords in my setup (I changed 5 at one go). As for the speaker cables, have not seen any reviews. If you are serious, sometimes it's worth bringing in as much as your current gear to the seller's place (to test the gear). The easiest is to bring just the component you want to replace (eg speaker cables) and swap between yrs and the one you are considering. thanks for the explaination. yes there isnt any reviews on the IeGO PUM 7 silver spk wires yet. the name pops up here n there but there never is a proper review. well if anyone is keen for a A/B comparison i am ok. but bro Jagdpanzer, i will be cutting only 1.5m pair for my thiels, i dun need that long. we can arrange for a listen, after which i can order another 8m for your 2m pair requirements. have pm you my contact. let me know then. the URL is Iego.com.tw only traditional chinese web. i gotta translator to loosely translate the whole page.
darkeststar Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 wymun, interesting post. my view is this: all the $$$ we spent on "better" cables, the main purpose is to lower the floor noise and to bring out as original as the recording is intended to be. anything component that adds colouration be it brightness or warm to it is distorting it liao.
user053009 Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Quick note on Nordost cables, at least with my gear and my ears. All Nordost models prior to SPM were so-so. Models like Red Dawn and Blue Heaven sounded thin and on the bright side. The SPM had good transparency, decent openness and great speed but top end was not airy, mids were a tad lean and bottom end a bit tight. Still, it was the first Nordost cable that sounded good. There was a model that came after SPM Reference (before Valhalla) and I forgot its name. That one addressed the top end brightness by being a bit dull but it got the mids and the bottom end right. Unfortunately, music overall became laid-back because the duller top killed off the attack and the decay. Nordost Valhalla was the first Nordost cable that got it all together. From top to bottom, the Valhalla is coherent, fast and transparent. It is airy, delicate and absolutely transparent with dense soul-ripping mids and at the same time let through gut-thumping accurate low notes. The Thiels CS3.7, after break-in, sound great with these cables. Unfortunately, the Valhalla wants an arm and a leg. The best cable I have heard was the Tara Labs' The Zero. What that cable did to my old non-Thiel speakers was a miracle. I could almost "see" the separation of orchestra sections right in front of my seat. The Zero shows that cables, in some cases, are more important than buying expensive speakers. Good cables and top notch upstream gear can make decent speakers sing. Of course, the Zero wanted US$15,000 at the time, way out of my range. I hope this can save you some time in cable research. Happy listening! [Addendum: The model after SPM Reference was the "Quattro Fil"; just found the name on-line.] [update: All but one of the above cables were tried with CS1.6, 2.4, 3.7 and SCS4. The Zero was not used with CS3.7, SCS4 and never will. The 1.6 and 2.4 trials were done about eight years ago and the 3.7 and SCS4 trials were done last year (2008). The components used were Audio Research CD2, LS-25 and VT200. We used matching interconnects and speaker cables and all interconnects used XLR's.]
Quest88 Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 This thread now seem to be about cables. :P Yesterday I had a mini-shootout with a forumer who brought some cables along.. now I forget the brands but there was pure silver in there as well. I don't recall any big names.. but the interesting thing is that my anticables still stood out among the rest, even vs the other solid core copper cable trialed (although they both shared similar characteristics). What this means to me is.. specs is one thing, but the actual product is another. I guess this is why we still need reviews and personal experience to properly assess a product.
Jagdpanzer Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 I think we should have cables shoot out only on Thiel speakers only. Otherwise, we end up with too many variables.
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