Soldering of Speaker Cables - Lead or Silver?

[Guest duckling]

Hi guys,

 

I would like to try soldering of cables myself, pls dun laugh cos' this is my first time. ;D

 

1) Shall I use Lead (I guess this is what pple use normally) or Silver?

2) I believe Lead shld be easily available but where can I find Silver for Soldering?

3) What type of Soldering Gun shld I buy?

 

Thanks for your kind assistance.

[Jag]

Soldering is very simple, takes a bit of practise initially, but you'll get the hang of it quickly. Practise with tin solder to "season" your soldering tip and your skills.

 

1) Silver solder is not 100% silver, but only a small small percentage is silver. The degree of improvement in sound is subjective, but I recommend using it in any case. No harm rite? ;D

 

2) Adelphi got sell, SLS 1st floor got a few shops selling WBT silver solder. Quite expensive to buy loose, considering silver solder is cheap if bought in bulk. Commonly used in RF industries for certain apps.

 

3)Any type of soldering gun is good. $30 can get a goot one. Wattage get about 40W is fine.

 

I do recommend using a good set of solder, solder stand plus wet sponge for tip cleaning, IPA for cleaning the joint, etc

 

I would instead suggest crimp joints rather than solder joints where posible. Crimps have better interface and subject to less impurities in signal flow in comparison to solder joints.

 

Good luck.

[Fowler]

Soldering is very simple, takes a bit of practise initially, but you'll get the hang of it quickly. Practise with tin solder to "season" your soldering tip and your skills.

 

1) Silver solder is not 100% silver, but only a small small percentage is silver. The degree of improvement in sound is subjective, but I recommend using it in any case. No harm rite? ;D

 

2) Adelphi got sell, SLS 1st floor got a few shops selling WBT silver solder. Quite expensive to buy loose, considering silver solder is cheap if bought in bulk. Commonly used in RF industries for certain apps.

 

3)Any type of soldering gun is good. $30 can get a goot one. Wattage get about 40W is fine.

 

I do recommend using a good set of solder, solder stand plus wet sponge for tip cleaning, IPA for cleaning the joint, etc

 

I would instead suggest crimp joints rather than solder joints where posible. Crimps have better interface and subject to less impurities in signal flow in comparison to solder joints.

 

Good luck.

 

You may want to try using KESTER solder. Cheap & Good.

[Ender1624705735]

heh..heh..heh.. sorry..

 

Anyway I'm using a 30w soldering gun, works fine. I prefer the gun type with a 'turbo' button to increase the wattage to 120w and above. Helps in heating up large surface area in double quick time

 

Remember for soldering, you're not heating the solder for melting, instead you're are suppose to heat up the connecter hot enough so the solder would flow and bond onto the connector. Tin your tip with a small amt of solder, then touch the tinned solder up onto the connector, this will allow faster heat transfer.

 

I've used 2% silver and normal tin, and frankly there's hardly any sonic difference to me at least. But others will differ in opinion.

 

Soft wet sponge is good for wiping of the blacken, but for being cheapsake I use damp toilet paper.

 

 

[Fowler]

 

Soft wet sponge is good for wiping of the blacken, but for being cheapsake I use damp toilet paper.

 

I'm a bigger cheapskate!! I use the scissors to scrape off the gunk!! No toilet paper, cloth or sponge!

 

[Guest duckling]

Before I kanna con, pls advise me on how much shld I pay for 1 reel of Lead/Tin or Silver. ;D

 

Thx.

[orb]

Try Sim Lim Tower can't remember 3rd or 4th lvl ???, one of them sell silver solder in loose packs @ $1.5 I've got them there several times. Ask around shops around will guide you. That how I got them too.

 

 

Cheers

[eow]

Try Sim Lim Tower can't remember 3rd or 4th lvl ???, one of them sell silver solder in loose packs @ $1.5 I've got them there several times. Ask around shops around will guide you. That how I got them too.

 

 

Cheers

Just curios how long is the lenght?

There is a shop at 2nd floor selling a whole reel 2% silver content for $15.00 brand arashi i think....

at 200gm(don't know the total lengh )

[BTW1624705745]

Agree with Fowler, Kester is cheap and good ;) . I'm currently using Wonder Solder which I like a lot. I bought it from Frankie at Well Audio. You might want to ask Frankie I think he has quite a few different brands of solder in his shop :)

[fishball791624705735]

I got my reel of 2% silver solder for $30 if i remember correctly. Its a 500g reel no label one from SLT ground floor shop. Koba sells a decent amount for $6.50... i havent use finish that one yet!

 

No point buying too much as they will tarnish under normal conditions... I also think branded & 4% silver solders are too ex. If you can, crimp the conducting wires, seal of the joint from being exposed to air and prevent cable stress.

 

I advise against going high wattage + high silver content solder for newbies as you might end up melting the cable's insulation and burning yourself if you are not careful. It also increases the chance of a cold solder joint (good solder joint is shiny, cold joints aren't and tend to break from the surfaces after some time) as you might need more time to heat up surfaces... nothing's more irritating than solder that is melted but stuck on your soldering iron tip anot not contacting the surface you want to solder.

 

Using a wet sponge or wet tissue even is very important. As the solder tip gets oxidised very easily and results in inefficient heating as well as impurities floating unto the joint.

[Guest duckling]

Thanks for the help guys...I'll be trying on some belden cables, thus I can afford to make mistakes which is pretty usual for newbies I guess. ;D

 

Well Audio...ok, will check them out tomorrow as I'll be going to LHS for some Belden cables. ;)

[Ender1624705735]

Must get some pain soothing cream from Guardian pharmacy..... ;D

 

[Jag]

Do a AB on Beldens and your good cables.

 

I won't be surprised if they turn out to be better than you'd expect from cheap cables.

 

BTW, crimping interconnect cables can be better than soldering in the long run.

[nautilus1624705743]

BTW, the reason for using silver solder in industry is because of its higher melting point. It is used mainly for high temperature applications where tin-lead solder will melt.

 

Also regarding the issue of crimped vs soldered joins, crimped joins are not necessarily better. I suppose it's like an issue of a mechanical vs a chemically bonded join. In the long run, the soldered join will maintain its integrity as opposed to crimped joins which will loosen over time. This is especially so in harsher environment with lots of vibrations(eg. speakers).

[Jag]

Vibrations loosen, yes if the crimped joint is a poor and loose crimp. A canare RCA crimped joint is quite solid and is the recommended for RCAs; esp where impedance match is of concern.

 

I however disagree in silver solder having a significantly high melting temp. I'm not sure which industry you're refering to, but certain industries use it differently. The silver content in silver solder is a low 2-5%. The increase in melting temp is quite marginal and not usually an issue for audio apps. Silver solder in effect provide superior conductivity over normal tin/lead; crucial in low level signals (like line-level or RF signals) where even a bit of loss is important. Gold and silver are excellent conductors, followed by copper, after which aluminium is next. Tin/lead is used in solder for their low melting temps.

 

In high freqency apps, like digital/video interconnects, crimped connectors can offer an excellent impedance match connection repeatedly over manual soldering. IMHO, soldered joints cannot offer consistent 75ohms impedance match. By ensuring 75ohms match for video, audio and digital interconnects, the signal integrity will not be affected by signal reflections, return loss and conductivity difference.

 

I don't find speaker vibrations to be harsh enough to cause crimped joints to come loose. The SPLs generated in consumer audio is relatively tame and won't cuase the problems mentioned. Besides, Canare RCA plugs are pro-audio industry recognised as being the best. Practical, reliable and maintaining 75ohm impedance match as much as possible(except where laws of physics defy this specs)

 

A good crimp can be better than a solder crimp in these ways:

1) No carbon, flux or sponge/tissue impurities in the solder joint.

2) Able to maintain a gas-tight crimped(cold-weld) joint.

3) Impedance mismatch problems not an issue.

4) Can withstand extremely high temps where solder (even 100% silver) cannot stand.

5) Co-ax dielectric is not deformed/destroyed. Soldering iron heat can destroy/deform the di-electric insulation.

[Transworld]

Thanks for the help guys...I'll be trying on some belden cables, thus I can afford to make mistakes which is pretty usual for newbies I guess. ;D

 

Well Audio...ok, will check them out tomorrow as I'll be going to LHS for some Belden cables. ;)

 

Hi Duckling, did you heard before Belden 1860A speaker cable. Sounds good for me. It is a perfect combo using Klotz star quads as interconnects and Belden as spk cable. ;)

[eow]

Hi jag agreed with u on most of the part except for the Gold.

Once read up on a audio handbook indicating that copper has a better conductivity than gold

The best is still silver follow by copper and the diff is only by a few %. The reason why silver n gold was so costly because it not like copper which degrade with time.(btw pure silver will still oxidise but it impurities does not affect/degrade the sound! yes it a written fact!)

As for gold it will not oxidised /or tarnish and will remain forever as what it is in it virgin state it was use in application for gold-plating so as to prevent oxidation from taking place ...so beware for those who use brasso or metal polishing cream...DO NOT USE IT ON GOLD-PLATED TERMINAL! U WILL REGRET!

(sorry a bit off-track from the thread)

 

 

Vibrations loosen, yes if the crimped joint is a poor and loose crimp. A canare RCA crimped joint is quite solid and is the recommended for RCAs; esp where impedance match is of concern.

 

I however disagree in silver solder having a significantly high melting temp. I'm not sure which industry you're refering to, but certain industries use it differently. The silver content in silver solder is a low 2-5%. The increase in melting temp is quite marginal and not usually an issue for audio apps. Silver solder in effect provide superior conductivity over normal tin/lead; crucial in low level signals (like line-level or RF signals) where even a bit of loss is important. Gold and silver are excellent conductors, followed by copper, after which aluminium is next. Tin/lead is used in solder for their low melting temps.

 

In high freqency apps, like digital/video interconnects, crimped connectors can offer an excellent impedance match connection repeatedly over manual soldering. IMHO, soldered joints cannot offer consistent 75ohms impedance match. By ensuring 75ohms match for video, audio and digital interconnects, the signal integrity will not be affected by signal reflections, return loss and conductivity difference.

 

I don't find speaker vibrations to be harsh enough to cause crimped joints to come loose. The SPLs generated in consumer audio is relatively tame and won't cuase the problems mentioned. Besides, Canare RCA plugs are pro-audio industry recognised as being the best. Practical, reliable and maintaining 75ohm impedance match as much as possible(except where laws of physics defy this specs)

 

A good crimp can be better than a solder crimp in these ways:

1) No carbon, flux or sponge/tissue impurities in the solder joint.

2) Able to maintain a gas-tight crimped(cold-weld) joint.

3) Impedance mismatch problems not an issue.

4) Can withstand extremely high temps where solder (even 100% silver) cannot stand.

5) Co-ax dielectric is not deformed/destroyed. Soldering iron heat can destroy/deform the di-electric insulation.

[Jag]

Ah, I thot gold is a good conductor. My mistake then. Anyway I came to that conclusion as the wire bonders I use at work use gold threads.

 

Maybe I should suggest at work that copper is better for wire-bonding. ;D

 

 

[eow]

Maybe durability is the main concern? Hence the application for gold thread.

Ah, I thot gold is a good conductor. My mistake then. Anyway I came to that conclusion as the wire bonders I use at work use gold threads.

 

Maybe I should suggest at work that copper is better for wire-bonding. ;D

 

 

[BTW1624705745]

Maybe durability is the main concern? Hence the application for gold thread.

 

Gold does not oxidise and it's very soft/malleable hence much easier to draw into extremely fine gold wire. In terms of conductivity Gold ranks behind Silver and Copper . But don't rule out pure gold cables as yet after all Siltech and Stealth use Gold for their megabucks wires some explaination give in their respective websites :)

 

[Jag]

A bit of searching around the web and yes, the order is Silver, copper and then gold.

 

Silver volume of conductivity is 108.3%, copper @ 100% and gold at 73.4%. Aluminium is merely 65%. Don't bother with tin/lead alloy as its conductivity is much worse off.

 

Ok, yes, true in that gold is extremely maleable (I'm using gold wires 0.025mm thick), and gold is the only bondwire so thin.

 

Pure gold cable? Hahhahaha........... give them credit, but those guilible ones will fall for their marketing hype. :o

[BTW1624705745]

Pure gold cable? Hahhahaha........... give them credit, but those guilible ones will fall for their marketing hype. :o

 

Have you heard a Gold Interconnect before ? I was laughing just like you until a DIY guy demonstrated a Gold DIY IC vs DIY Silver IC vs a Commercial Copper Cable. I was shocked that I prefered the Gold best. There are some audiophiles in Japan who swear but very fine gold phono cables. One interesting theory I've heard about Gold is in the crystal structure, no need to worry about the oxygen getting into the crystal like copper hence the emphasis on the purity of OFC(Oxygen Free Copper). I'm in no way trying to justify the high prices of Siltech etc.... but I think Gold has some merits that I'll look into in the near future from a DIY point of view of course ;D

 

[nautilus1624705743]

Jag,

 

Although 2-5% might seem a bit little, silver can elevate the melting point very considerably. A lead-silver composition of 96/4 melts at 305degrees(MP Groover). That's way higher than normal 60/40 solder that melts at 188deg. Also, silver oxidises more easily than tin which may also have an effect on the longevity of the join. Let's face it, if the effect of silver was so considerable, why wouldn't all companies use it in their wave soldering machine instead of tin-lead solders. The price of 2% silver can't be too much!

 

There are a few common misconceptions regarding 75ohm RCA's:

 

1) Although the connectors are 75 ohms, the connectors are not.

 

2) The wire length affects the reflectance regardless of connectors used.

 

3) The cable inductance must also be taken into account.

 

Getting true 75ohms is not as simple as just getting "true 75 ohms" connectors. Unless you have a CRO and the relavant formulas, it's impossible to determine its impedance.

 

And lastly, vibrations do affect the mechanical integrety of crimped joins. Unless you have the crimped join professionally done and checked, there is no sure way of saying how "good" or "air-tight" the crimped join is.

 

Although the "pro-audio" industry is mentioned in your reply, it makes up a very small percentage of the manufacturing industry. If a crimped 75ohm join is so good, why don't most CRO's use it over the more complicated BNC connectors?

 

 

 

Vibrations loosen, yes if the crimped joint is a poor and loose crimp. A canare RCA crimped joint is quite solid and is the recommended for RCAs; esp where impedance match is of concern.

 

I however disagree in silver solder having a significantly high melting temp. I'm not sure which industry you're refering to, but certain industries use it differently. The silver content in silver solder is a low 2-5%. The increase in melting temp is quite marginal and not usually an issue for audio apps. Silver solder in effect provide superior conductivity over normal tin/lead; crucial in low level signals (like line-level or RF signals) where even a bit of loss is important. Gold and silver are excellent conductors, followed by copper, after which aluminium is next. Tin/lead is used in solder for their low melting temps.

 

In high freqency apps, like digital/video interconnects, crimped connectors can offer an excellent impedance match connection repeatedly over manual soldering. IMHO, soldered joints cannot offer consistent 75ohms impedance match. By ensuring 75ohms match for video, audio and digital interconnects, the signal integrity will not be affected by signal reflections, return loss and conductivity difference.

 

I don't find speaker vibrations to be harsh enough to cause crimped joints to come loose. The SPLs generated in consumer audio is relatively tame and won't cuase the problems mentioned. Besides, Canare RCA plugs are pro-audio industry recognised as being the best. Practical, reliable and maintaining 75ohm impedance match as much as possible(except where laws of physics defy this specs)

 

A good crimp can be better than a solder crimp in these ways:

1) No carbon, flux or sponge/tissue impurities in the solder joint.

2) Able to maintain a gas-tight crimped(cold-weld) joint.

3) Impedance mismatch problems not an issue.

4) Can withstand extremely high temps where solder (even 100% silver) cannot stand.

5) Co-ax dielectric is not deformed/destroyed. Soldering iron heat can destroy/deform the di-electric insulation.

[Jag]

But there is little concern in audio interconnects to use high temp solder, no? Silver is used more often in audio interconnects due to the audiophiles obscession towards perfection regardless of cost.

 

I would dare say if silver solder is cheaper than or as cheap as tin/lead solder, everyone would ditch tin/lead in favour of silver. Unfortunately, there is a price difference between silver and normal solder, thus increasing profit margins.

 

1) Although the connectors are 75 ohms, the connectors are not.

To correct you, the connections are 75ohms, but the connectors are not. True, I agree with you on this point.

 

2) The wire length affects the reflectance regardless of connectors used.

The wire length does not affect reflectance, but rather affects the attenuation. Reflection is caused by impedance mismatch. Throughout a transmission line, the impedance is consistant to approx 75ohms+/- 1.5% (for Belden 1694a). Impedance is not a function of length, but the geometrical ratio of the conductor diameter to the shield diameter. In all systems, the cable impedance is pretty consistent(considering its not been stepped on or overly bent). Rather, the quality of the connector used is the weakest link. In most cases, the length of the cable is not the culprit as the impedance change (and thus reflections) are quite minimal. The culprit lies often in a poorly made connector which is dirtly, poorly soldered or junked crimp.

 

3) The cable inductance must also be taken into account.

The cable inductance affects not the 75ohms impedance, but the loss over some distance. As you know, the relation of attenuation vs industance of meter will give rise to a phenonmenon called 1/f loss. The inductance is not a useful parameter if distance is not known.

 

Getting true 75ohms is not as simple as just getting "true 75 ohms" connectors. Unless you have a CRO and the relavant formulas, it's impossible to determine its impedance.

Getting true 75ohms is not possilbe with RCA simply due to geometrical reasons. It is very easy to determine the impedance of any cable simply with a micrometer and a calculator.

 

To verify it, a CRO cannot tell you anything useful short of guessing. A network analyser is the proper equipment for measuring reflection co-efficient, thus deriving charateristic impedance.

 

But as I've mentioned earlier, Canare RCA plugs can gaurantee a gas-tight crimp. There is little significance of checking it visually and passing it. Rather it takes measurement and propably a TDR analyser to check the intergity of the joint.

 

A soldered joint will never ever give a 75ohm impedance connection, unless u have the precision of a machine. Good understanding of electromagnetic propagation why reveal why hand soldered connectors cannot achieve 75ohms. Crimps on the other hand can, due to the precision of the parts and the crimp die. Well, at least a crimp will ensure the geometric ratios are maintained properly throught the crimped joint.

 

Well, if you didn't know, RCA connectors were never meant for 75ohms. It was designed for simple audio interconnects 50 yrs ago. somewhere along the line, some joker decided to adapt it to use for video, and than AC-3 Rf and then digital. That fella should have had lost his job for this mistake.

 

A crimped 75 ohms is good enough for many of todays low bandwidth apps. However, the consumer electronics industry has woken up to realise that RCAs cannot support high bandwidth videos, thus the invention of DVI connectors.

 

Most CRO's use BNC due to the simeple reason of it being designed specifically for its superior impedance matching merits, namely its geometrical ratio. RCAs cannot be used coz they are of the wrong design altogether.

 

For your info, BNCs connectors are almost always crimped. So, YES, crimped joints are so good that its used in CRO BNC connectors! ;D ;) For reasons obvious b now, CROs must never use RCAs as connectors.

[nautilus1624705743]

Jag,

 

Interesting post. I was mentioning the MPs of the different solders to illustrate the point that silver solder is indeed used for elevated temperature applications in industry. As for the audiophile sense, how little or how much difference does it make, no one can really tell.

 

IMHO, canares as good as they are supposed to be, should not be regarded as the holy grail of all connectors since it's an RCA. I agree with you fully about the limitations of the RCA connector. I would think the cost might have something to do with it being used so widely. I've heard of some guy who modded his cdp digital out to BNCs and he claimed that it sounds much better than the old RCAs. Looks like it's time for a change of standard. ;D ;D